Punishment for school shootings

[Sentry21]

I was having a discussion with some friends about the shootings recently. What do you people think about this:

If the first shooters received a severe sentencing would 'copycat' crimes have lessened? I personally think that youth have been given the impression that it is not that bad to shoot in schools. It seems to me that many of the shootings have been for attention with no regard to the actual consequences of what they are doing. Any thoughts?

 

[GoldenBear]

<< I personally think that youth have been given the impression that it is not that bad to shoot in schools. >>

I don't think the dumbest of kids would think that.

 

[Sentry21]

I'm just looking for reasons that it continues. It obviously doesn't have an adverse affect on every kid. The proof being that the shootings continue.

 

[GL]

In the old days these teens would have just committed suicide and become a digit in a statistic. Now they realize they can go out with a bang (literally) since CNN will literally cover the crappiest event in the history of the world every second for 24 hours. But thanks to some great police restraint they end up living.

Of course, what brings them to the point of being psycho and suicidal is a whole other issue. We get CNN and all your American news and media up here in Canada and we've only had one copycat incident about 3 years ago.

As with many other issues, I'm sure the cause is one part environment (friends or lackthereof, family, etc.), one part media (inspires _how_ they will commit their act...not the cause though), and several parts the individuals' fault (there's a lot of kids that had crappy childhoods...and they don't resort to this).

Oh and stiffening up the penalty won't do anything...as I said, I'm pretty sure these kids are suicidal and are dead-set on leaving the world when they commit these acts.

-GL

 

[Scrapster]

These kids were most likely suicidal. They give themselves the option, suicide or kill a mess of people. I don't think stricter punishment would do anything b/c they already know they are going down and life just isn't worth it. We should be less concerned about punishment and more concerned on how to solve the roots of these problems so kids don't feel like life isn't worth living.

 

[Sentry21]

GL:

Why do you think that Canada has not had the outbreak of shootings that the U.S. has? Certainly unhappy children are everywhere.

 

[GreenBeret]

Fewer people in canada. Statistically it is probably not that different. Besides, they have their animals to comfort them! :Q

 

[GL]

Well I'm pretty sure we have just as many nutty kids. They don't have access to handguns as they are illegal in Canada. The shooting I mentioned happened in a rural Alberta when the kid brought his hunting rifle to school I think. I've long postulated that while I believe ultimately people kill people, the magnitude of the harm these nutty people can do is determined by the weapons they have access to. I mean it's not that crazy. Why do you think the U.S. army is so intent on weapons of mass destruction, smart weapons and recon satellites? It lets them have much more power over armies that are even equivalent in size.

I've also pretty much discounted the whole religion issue. From what I've seen on the boards, Americans are far more conservative in their religious beliefs than the average Canadian so if there is any &quot;moral decay&quot;, I'd expect much more bad things to happen in major Canadian cities which are very liberal.

There are bad parents here too and their kids do get into trouble.

I'm really not sure...all I can do is try to speculate. I know that in general the violent crime rate and entire crime rate in Canada is dropping.

I do know that in high school the administration and teachers always emphasized achievement and excellence. It seems in the U.S. that so much attention is placed on finding the troubled youths and school administrators expect violence. I've long believed that kids will live up (or down) to the expectations placed on them so maybe that has something to do with it.

I know in high school I wouldn't consider swearing at a teacher let alone laying a hand on them. I know that when our high school principal died (he was a Brother..I went to a public all-guys Catholic school), that everybody in the school mourned him, even the troublemakers. He befriended the troublemakers and would place his high expectations on him...a lot of them didn't have good male rolemodels so he became this void for them. He was strict but he was compassionate and was just generally cool. When poor kids couldn't afford to go on trips, he's make sure they got the money they needed to go along. When you did good in school he'd personally congratulate you. The school became a worse place after he died...more violence, less respect for authority.

Green Beret
I think statistically it is actually less too. I'll check it out though.

-GL

 

[GreenBeret]

I'm sure it is less in canada, I'm just saying that it probably isn't THAT dfferent.

 

[piku]

Torture. Severe, harsh, public torture.

 

[Sentry21]

Piku, all I have to say to that is Singapore and caning/kaning <SP>

I would prefer that it doesn't get to that level though. I don't belive it would stop violence. I think that the offenders would be more likely to make sure they either killed themselves or were killed than face the possible consequence of public beatings.

 

[GL]

There's no doubt Green Beret. CNN tends to overblow these incidents. I mean qualitatively they're horrible but quantitatively they're an outlier, a blip on the radar screen as far as statistics are concerned.

As I was explaining to my mom yesterday, as long as people are watching the news people will always have a worsening perception of society. Every newscast is a finite amount of time - say 1 hour. Ten years ago, let's say there were 10 million New Yorkers (for ease of calculation). And let's say there was one violent newsworthy story in New York and it made it to the 1 hour newscast. Well today let's say there are 20 million New Yorkers and assume that statistically violence is no better or worse. So now there are 2 violent newsworth stories that make it to the 1 hour newscast. Nothing has changed, but there are now twice as many violent stories on the news.

Of course, this is why I always kind of laugh when people say &quot;what's going on with the world today. In the grand scheme of things...probably not much that hasn't gone on before and nothing that will fail to go on tomorrow.

-GL