Pump Speed RPM on Seidon 120v (Ver3)

[Subzidite]

Hi , I have bought Seidon 120v Version 3 (the one with two Red XtraFlo Fans) to installed on my PC and have some questions. Which caught me to Paranoia for days now

The Pump Speed :

it's the FANIN1 in HWMonitor - when I turn on my pc after turning off when unused for half a day , the RPM would start of at 740-750 before rise up to around 820-850 RPM which is normal pump speed , and go to 870-890 during Load & Gaming

for a moderate amount before I turn off pc (e.g. I startup my pc at 12pm , turning off around midnigt-1am as daily) RPM would stay at 780-785RPM

I did not do any undervoltage on the Pump since i'm a complete noob on advanced pc settings - all I know is this is tied to "1st system fan speed" in GIGABYTE UEFI Bios (GA-970A-D3P) and the fan profile were set to normal. Which was already this way since day 1 of my PC and never changed it

there was some Slight Whirring noise. Not Grinding like people uploaded the issue on youtube , and it was slightly Audible unless you didnt watch any video or put your ears beside the case

before that I used Seidon 120v (The first version) and it works fine - pump would ran around 1300-1500

I find some specs said the Pump Speed is minimum of 800rpm to max of 1200 and theres +/-10%
when sometimes it goes lowered than said minimum spec - this is normal?

so it came to couple of question

1.This is normal behavior right? Pump speed changing due to load and room ambient (which myself is kinda cool especially near midnight) (PWM Pump?)

2.If I keep continue using it with no changing at all. I should not worry about it's lifespan will be lowered (e.g. wont last longer than 2.5 years) ?

3.The Slight Whirring , sign of Pump Fail?

4.By all of these , There is actually nothing to worried about and i'm just overthinking it right?

NOTE : With the things about pump speed , noise and questions I have. There's no issue like overheating , temps rise at all. It behave fine like nothing happened.

NOTE 2 : I bought and installed this for only half a week. So what i'm looking for is answers and clarifications just to make sure that theres nothing and "it's fine man , keep relax and using it"

 

[Paperdoc]

Unfortunately, Cooler Master does not seem to supply any detailed instructions for elecrtical details of the installation of this Seidon 120V ver3 Plus system. But I can deduce the following from the clues.

1. The intent is that the pump should run at full speed all the time, and that all control of the CPU temperature is by varying the speed of the fans on the radiator unit.
2. The two fans supplied are of the 4-pin design, so they are best used with a 4-pin mobo header that does actually use PWM Mode for control. Since they are a pair, your best plan is to use a 4-pin SPLITTER to connect the two of them to a single mobo header. That really should be the CPU_FAN header, which then can monitor those rad fans for failure as well as automatically managing their speeds according to the measured internal CPU temperature. Wiring this way means that ONE of the pumps' speeds will be visible as the speed of the CPU_FAN device, but the other will be ignored completely. But since they are a matched pair, they will do the same thing. The only "caution" is that you should look at them from time to time to be sure one has not stalled and failed but that failure went undetected.
3. The pump unit only has a 3-pin fan connector. Since it is intended to run on a fixed +12 VDC supply at full speed all the time, it should be on its own header. Depending on your mobo, this could be the CPU_OPT or AIO_Pump header. IF there is a choice, set that header to Voltage Control Mode, but PWM Mode also will work. Set it to full speed, or Turbo, or some such setting that gives the full 12 VDC at all times. Done this way the pump speed will be shown to you as the speed of that header's device. The system specs do NOT say what the pump speed should be

 

[Subzidite]

Unfortunately, Cooler Master does not seem to supply any detailed instructions for elecrtical details of the installation of this Seidon 120V ver3 Plus system. But I can deduce the following from the clues.

1. The intent is that the pump should run at full speed all the time, and that all control of the CPU temperature is by varying the speed of the fans on the radiator unit.
2. The two fans supplied are of the 4-pin design, so they are best used with a 4-pin mobo header that does actually use PWM Mode for control. Since they are a pair, your best plan is to use a 4-pin SPLITTER to connect the two of them to a single mobo header. That really should be the CPU_FAN header, which then can monitor those rad fans for failure as well as automatically managing their speeds according to the measured internal CPU temperature. Wiring this way means that ONE of the pumps' speeds will be visible as the speed of the CPU_FAN device, but the other will be ignored completely. But since they are a matched pair, they will do the same thing. The only "caution" is that you should look at them from time to time to be sure one has not stalled and failed but that failure went undetected.
3. The pump unit only has a 3-pin fan connector. Since it is intended to run on a fixed +12 VDC supply at full speed all the time, it should be on its own header. Depending on your mobo, this could be the CPU_OPT or AIO_Pump header. IF there is a choice, set that header to Voltage Control Mode, but PWM Mode also will work. Set it to full speed, or Turbo, or some such setting that gives the full 12 VDC at all times. Done this way the pump speed will be shown to you as the speed of that header's device. The system specs do NOT say what the pump speed should be

Ok. Besides , back to what I said. Does It's safe to say that if I keep all of it normally (carried on with these RPMs , nothing change) I'll be fine and not much worrying about it right? That's the one I want to know most

 

[Subzidite]

Unfortunately, Cooler Master does not seem to supply any detailed instructions for elecrtical details of the installation of this Seidon 120V ver3 Plus system. But I can deduce the following from the clues.

1. The intent is that the pump should run at full speed all the time, and that all control of the CPU temperature is by varying the speed of the fans on the radiator unit.
2. The two fans supplied are of the 4-pin design, so they are best used with a 4-pin mobo header that does actually use PWM Mode for control. Since they are a pair, your best plan is to use a 4-pin SPLITTER to connect the two of them to a single mobo header. That really should be the CPU_FAN header, which then can monitor those rad fans for failure as well as automatically managing their speeds according to the measured internal CPU temperature. Wiring this way means that ONE of the pumps' speeds will be visible as the speed of the CPU_FAN device, but the other will be ignored completely. But since they are a matched pair, they will do the same thing. The only "caution" is that you should look at them from time to time to be sure one has not stalled and failed but that failure went undetected.
3. The pump unit only has a 3-pin fan connector. Since it is intended to run on a fixed +12 VDC supply at full speed all the time, it should be on its own header. Depending on your mobo, this could be the CPU_OPT or AIO_Pump header. IF there is a choice, set that header to Voltage Control Mode, but PWM Mode also will work. Set it to full speed, or Turbo, or some such setting that gives the full 12 VDC at all times. Done this way the pump speed will be shown to you as the speed of that header's device. The system specs do NOT say what the pump speed should be

Hi again , hope you'll be online

I try check at the bios and there's a 2100rpm on the Power Fan Speed : can i assume this is the pump block? (I forgot to tell I let the store guy install everything)

theres CPU Fan Speed and 1st system fan speed which both are the XtraFlo Fans
Power Fan Speed are not available to have any profile selection. Can I assure this Power Fan Speed is the pump block? If yes then i'm doing it right having it stay 2100rpm all the time? - it'll changing for only a few amount (like 2100-2170)

 

[aigomorla]

1.This is normal behavior right? Pump speed changing due to load and room ambient (which myself is kinda cool especially near midnight) (PWM Pump?)

2.If I keep continue using it with no changing at all. I should not worry about it's lifespan will be lowered (e.g. wont last longer than 2.5 years) ?

3.The Slight Whirring , sign of Pump Fail?

4.By all of these , There is actually nothing to worried about and i'm just overthinking it right?

1. Yea its normal behavior of PWM... basically all aio pumps now are pwm.

2. Well, to be honest no one can answer this question. Every motor in the known universe has a chance to just give up and die.
No one can gaurentee anything unless your god the allmighty.

3. no.. means the pump is running at low rpms.... rattling noise = pump may die...

4. yes and no... personally i hate AIO pumps.... they are garbage of the garbage some business man decided to flood into our market to make a profit. They are nothing like the real industrial standard pumps real watercooling system uses, hence why yhou will never see me run an AIO unless i absolutely have to... id rather run a industrial liang D5 which have MBTF of 50k hours.

But that is just me... as i said its all electronic lottery.... sometimes you win some and more, sometimes you crash hard and burn.

if you really are worried go get a Noctua D15 heatsink and call it day.... nothing to leak, and will give u near performance as a AIO.

 

[Subzidite]

1. Yea its normal behavior of PWM... basically all aio pumps now are pwm.

2. Well, to be honest no one can answer this question. Every motor in the known universe has a chance to just give up and die.
No one can gaurentee anything unless your god the allmighty.

3. no.. means the pump is running at low rpms.... rattling noise = pump may die...

4. yes and no... personally i hate AIO pumps.... they are garbage of the garbage some business man decided to flood into our market to make a profit. They are nothing like the real industrial standard pumps real watercooling system uses, hence why yhou will never see me run an AIO unless i absolutely have to... id rather run a industrial liang D5 which have MBTF of 50k hours.

But that is just me... as i said its all electronic lottery.... sometimes you win some and more, sometimes you crash hard and burn.

if you really are worried go get a Noctua D15 heatsink and call it day.... nothing to leak, and will give u near performance as a AIO.

thank you very much , another one I forgot - If pump is about to dead , is there any other signal like Temps Will Skyrocket? and does MOBO have something like failsafe or shuts down instantly the temps are too high?

I still have temps at 28-30c at Idle like it should be with the Slight Whirring , I can relax as of now right?

 

[Paperdoc]

Actually, since your pump unit has a 3-pin connection, it can NOT be a PWM unit. It uses the older Voltage Control Mode (aka DC Mode) for control. The cute trick they have used is that, if you plug a 3-pin device such as that into a 4-pin header that actually does use PWM control, it is NOT under speed control - it will run full speed all the time. And that is exactly what the Seidon pump wants. The potential "problem" is if you plug it into a header that is using Voltage Control mode, because then it CAN run at slower speeds.

The "whirring" noise you hear may NOT be that pump. You have mentioned three items so far - the pump and two radiator fans. We know nothing about your case ventilation fans, how they are connected and what type they are so we know how they MIGHT be controlled. So it is possible another fan is making the noise. With your system, you can do some experimenting. With a liquid-cooled system, you can afford to disconnect the pump for a short time without causing big trouble for the CPU. So, open the case, get the system running, and listen around to see if you can locate that noise. If you are sure which fan it is, you have an answer. Otherwise trace the wires from the pump back to a mobo header. Carefully unplug the pump and listen - did the noise stop or not? Now plug it back in again - should not be left unplugged for more than a minute. IF the pump is the noise source you know you need to keep a close eye on it. If not, try that experiment again for a different fan. BUT do NOT unplug the one on the CPU_FAN header. SOME mobos (not sure about yours) will take drastic action if that particular fan signal fails and shut down your whole system in a panic stop.

So at this point, hopefully, you will know which fan is making small noises. You will also know something else important: which thing is plugged into which mobo fan header? So far much of your info on that point is that you suppose something is plugged into a particular header, but don't really know.

From here, I will detail the fan headers you have, what they can do, and which things should be plugged into which. You have four headers in total. Two of them have four pins each. The CPU_FAN header operates only in PWM Mode I think - the manual is unclear on that. In its automatic control setting it uses the temperature sensor built into the CPU chip to guide its operation. THIS is the header that should be used for ALL the fans that actually control cooling of the CPU chip, and that is the TWO rad fans.

The SYS_FAN1 header also has 4 pins, and its labels are even more confusing, so it may use PWM Mode or not. But that does not matter, because it is a problem only if you plug into it a 3-pin fan and the header really is using PWM Mode. On almost ALL mobos this header would use as its guide a different temperature sensor built into the mobo. But the manual on p. 22 says it does its automatic control based on CPU temperature. That may be correct but very unusual, OR it may be a miss-print. Anyway, this is where you should be plugging in all your case ventilation fans. NOTE that this is the ONLY mobo header designed for case ventilation fans AND actually able to control those fans' speeds automatically, so all case fans must go here.

The SYS_FAN2 header is 3-pin and has NO ability to control anything. According the the manual (p. 14) it can only supply a fixed 12 VDC to a fan, thus running it at full speed all the time. But that MAY be of use to you. I suggested that your pump should have a fixed 12 VDC supply to run full speed all the time, and this is a good place to get that. (But see my next paragraph.) Note ALSO that, on p. 22 of your manual it says under the heading "CPU/System/Power Fan Fail Warning" that for each fan header you can configure whether or not it will send out a warning signal if its fan fails, AND note that it says that this option is DISABLED by default. So, for each header where you DO want warnings sent out of fan failure (like, whatever header you plug your pump into), you need to ENABLE this option.

The PWR_FAN header is designed for a particular purpose that is not applicable to your system. It has no ability to control anything. It was designed for use with certain Power Supply Units that had a special three-wire set coming out that ended in a standard 3-pin female fan connector. Its only purpose was to deliver to the mobo PWR_FAN header the speed signal from the fan inside the PSU. (The actual speed of that fan is NOT controlled by the mobo through this header.) This allowed you to see and monitor that PSU fan's speed or failure. The intent was that, if your PSU did NOT have those special wires (and I suspect yours does not), you would plug into this mobo header NOTHING. But then many mobo makers deviated from that slightly and connected the Ground and +12 VDC supplies to the pins of the PWR_FAN header so that it CAN supply that power to any device, but cannot control any speed. So, may people use it as a power source for things that need full power all the time. That is why you cannot find any options in BIOS Setup to change for this header. Your post suggests that is exactly what your computer tech did - plug the pump into the PWR_FAN header to give it constant full power and speed, which is what I said the pump should have. By now, if you did the "experimenting" I suggested above, you will know for sure whether the pump is plugged into the PWR_FAN header. If it is, check in BIOS Setup whether you CAN change its alarm setting to ENABLED. If yes, that is the warning signal you are looking for to monitor the pump, and you can leave it connected there - just REMEMBER that what is reported to you as POWER fan speed is really PUMP speed! If you can't ensure that PWR_FAN header will send out an alarm if its unit fails, maybe consider moving the pump connection to the SYS_FAN2 header and setting its warning to ENABLED.

With all that, here's what I suggest would work best for you.
1. Connect the pump to the PWR_FAN or the SYS_FAN2 header, whichever can have its failure warning setting ENABLED. This will run that pump full speed all the time.
2. Connect BOTH radiator fans to the CPU_FAN header, and set its warning option to ENABLED. To do this you need a simple 4-pin SPLITTER. This is a simple device of groups of wires. It has one arm with a female 4-pin fan connector that goes to the mobo CPU_FAN header. The it has two output arms, each with a male 4-pin connector that you plug your fans into. It has NO other arms. (A Hub, a very different device, has an extra arm that must plug into a PSU output to get power.) That way BOTH rad fans will be under control of the header that is based on the internal temperature of the CPU chip.
3. Connect all your case ventilation fans to the only mobo header that can control based on the mobo temperature sensor, the SYS_FAN1 header. To do this again you will need another 4-pin SPLITTER. IF you have more than two case fans, post back here with details of how many, and whether each is 3-pin or 4-pin, and we can advise further.

 

[Subzidite]

Actually, since your pump unit has a 3-pin connection, it can NOT be a PWM unit. It uses the older Voltage Control Mode (aka DC Mode) for control. The cute trick they have used is that, if you plug a 3-pin device such as that into a 4-pin header that actually does use PWM control, it is NOT under speed control - it will run full speed all the time. And that is exactly what the Seidon pump wants. The potential "problem" is if you plug it into a header that is using Voltage Control mode, because then it CAN run at slower speeds.

The "whirring" noise you hear may NOT be that pump. You have mentioned three items so far - the pump and two radiator fans. We know nothing about your case ventilation fans, how they are connected and what type they are so we know how they MIGHT be controlled. So it is possible another fan is making the noise. With your system, you can do some experimenting. With a liquid-cooled system, you can afford to disconnect the pump for a short time without causing big trouble for the CPU. So, open the case, get the system running, and listen around to see if you can locate that noise. If you are sure which fan it is, you have an answer. Otherwise trace the wires from the pump back to a mobo header. Carefully unplug the pump and listen - did the noise stop or not? Now plug it back in again - should not be left unplugged for more than a minute. IF the pump is the noise source you know you need to keep a close eye on it. If not, try that experiment again for a different fan. BUT do NOT unplug the one on the CPU_FAN header. SOME mobos (not sure about yours) will take drastic action if that particular fan signal fails and shut down your whole system in a panic stop.

So at this point, hopefully, you will know which fan is making small noises. You will also know something else important: which thing is plugged into which mobo fan header? So far much of your info on that point is that you suppose something is plugged into a particular header, but don't really know.

From here, I will detail the fan headers you have, what they can do, and which things should be plugged into which. You have four headers in total. Two of them have four pins each. The CPU_FAN header operates only in PWM Mode I think - the manual is unclear on that. In its automatic control setting it uses the temperature sensor built into the CPU chip to guide its operation. THIS is the header that should be used for ALL the fans that actually control cooling of the CPU chip, and that is the TWO rad fans.

The SYS_FAN1 header also has 4 pins, and its labels are even more confusing, so it may use PWM Mode or not. But that does not matter, because it is a problem only if you plug into it a 3-pin fan and the header really is using PWM Mode. On almost ALL mobos this header would use as its guide a different temperature sensor built into the mobo. But the manual on p. 22 says it does its automatic control based on CPU temperature. That may be correct but very unusual, OR it may be a miss-print. Anyway, this is where you should be plugging in all your case ventilation fans. NOTE that this is the ONLY mobo header designed for case ventilation fans AND actually able to control those fans' speeds automatically, so all case fans must go here.

The SYS_FAN2 header is 3-pin and has NO ability to control anything. According the the manual (p. 14) it can only supply a fixed 12 VDC to a fan, thus running it at full speed all the time. But that MAY be of use to you. I suggested that your pump should have a fixed 12 VDC supply to run full speed all the time, and this is a good place to get that. (But see my next paragraph.) Note ALSO that, on p. 22 of your manual it says under the heading "CPU/System/Power Fan Fail Warning" that for each fan header you can configure whether or not it will send out a warning signal if its fan fails, AND note that it says that this option is DISABLED by default. So, for each header where you DO want warnings sent out of fan failure (like, whatever header you plug your pump into), you need to ENABLE this option.

The PWR_FAN header is designed for a particular purpose that is not applicable to your system. It has no ability to control anything. It was designed for use with certain Power Supply Units that had a special three-wire set coming out that ended in a standard 3-pin female fan connector. Its only purpose was to deliver to the mobo PWR_FAN header the speed signal from the fan inside the PSU. (The actual speed of that fan is NOT controlled by the mobo through this header.) This allowed you to see and monitor that PSU fan's speed or failure. The intent was that, if your PSU did NOT have those special wires (and I suspect yours does not), you would plug into this mobo header NOTHING. But then many mobo makers deviated from that slightly and connected the Ground and +12 VDC supplies to the pins of the PWR_FAN header so that it CAN supply that power to any device, but cannot control any speed. So, may people use it as a power source for things that need full power all the time. That is why you cannot find any options in BIOS Setup to change for this header. Your post suggests that is exactly what your computer tech did - plug the pump into the PWR_FAN header to give it constant full power and speed, which is what I said the pump should have. By now, if you did the "experimenting" I suggested above, you will know for sure whether the pump is plugged into the PWR_FAN header. If it is, check in BIOS Setup whether you CAN change its alarm setting to ENABLED. If yes, that is the warning signal you are looking for to monitor the pump, and you can leave it connected there - just REMEMBER that what is reported to you as POWER fan speed is really PUMP speed! If you can't ensure that PWR_FAN header will send out an alarm if its unit fails, maybe consider moving the pump connection to the SYS_FAN2 header and setting its warning to ENABLED.

With all that, here's what I suggest would work best for you.
1. Connect the pump to the PWR_FAN or the SYS_FAN2 header, whichever can have its failure warning setting ENABLED. This will run that pump full speed all the time.
2. Connect BOTH radiator fans to the CPU_FAN header, and set its warning option to ENABLED. To do this you need a simple 4-pin SPLITTER. This is a simple device of groups of wires. It has one arm with a female 4-pin fan connector that goes to the mobo CPU_FAN header. The it has two output arms, each with a male 4-pin connector that you plug your fans into. It has NO other arms. (A Hub, a very different device, has an extra arm that must plug into a PSU output to get power.) That way BOTH rad fans will be under control of the header that is based on the internal temperature of the CPU chip.
3. Connect all your case ventilation fans to the only mobo header that can control based on the mobo temperature sensor, the SYS_FAN1 header. To do this again you will need another 4-pin SPLITTER. IF you have more than two case fans, post back here with details of how many, and whether each is 3-pin or 4-pin, and we can advise further.

the bios did have option for "Power Fan Fail Warning" and yes the speed is constant like I said , 2100 all the time since turn on till shut down

(So this means the pump block is in the right place already and the store guy didnt do any missteps right? thats only thing I want to know for know)

 

[Paperdoc]

Yes, that is the right place for the pump to be plugged in - the store guy did it right. Relax and enjoy your system.