pulled the trigger on an Onkyo 805 - already dead and returned!

[thomsbrain]

*update*

After only one week, the 805 started turning itself off as soon as I would turn it on. The manual indicates that it will do this if it senses an electrical fault. I disconnected everything, left it for an hour, then plugged in nothing but the power cable, and it still did it. So back to Amazon it goes. After this and some audio lag issues I couldn't fix, I will not be getting another one. I ordered a Denon AVR-988 to replace it. Specs are very close, but slightly less output and a less insane power transformer. Hopefully my luck is better.

At least my 805 didn't go up in flames like some people's. But it seems that build quality concerns are very real for those models. I didn't want the next one to have a problem just outside of warranty.

---------

Today I ordered an Onkyo TX-SR805 from Amazon (and some cables from monoprice). ~$580 shipped after I traded in the coins in my piggie bank for Amazon credit at a Coinstar machine. That's nearly double the most I ever previously spent on an entertainment component, and I am one seriously cheap bastard. But I decided my computer could go another year or two, and I've been drooling over this thing for months and months. Been down in the dumps and could use a new toy. What the hell.

So begins the gradual emptying of my wallet. It's the first step in a slow replacement of nearly my entire HT/audio system. Planning on eventually getting a PS3, a flat-panel, and hopefully one of those av123 5.1 packages. My current front speakers can eventually go to rear channel duty.

I would have waited and upgraded receivers as almost the last component (speakers probably would have come first), but with everything I'm reading about the new 806 having inferior audio, I didn't want the 805 to disappear before I was ready, since audio is probably my main concern. Plus the 805 is a bit cheaper than the 806.

Any tips on how to explain this 50 pound beast to the fiancee when it arrives? She can't tell the difference in sound between the TV's speakers and any surround system. Probably gonna have to explain it in terms of shoes.

:beer:

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Maybe mention how the MSRP on it was $1099 and you got it for half that? Maybe she'll get it when the pretty new speakers make an appearance?

 

[Wuzup101]

Probably a good buy. I'm looking to get an 805 before they disappear too. I will probably pick one up in the coming weeks. As far as how to get the fiancee approval... well I can't help there. I would just spray paint it white and stick an apple logo on it. Chicks don't seem to care what you buy as long as there is an apple logo on it (and it's white).

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Chicks don't seem to care what you buy as long as there is an apple logo on it (and it's white).

Ha, she's a PC girl. Built her own, in fact. But audio is something she just can't get herself to care about. I plan to set it up when she's not there and not say anything at all. She'll notice eventually and I'll say "I picked it up on sale."

 

[Wuzup101]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
Chicks don't seem to care what you buy as long as there is an apple logo on it (and it's white).

Ha, she's a PC girl. Built her own, in fact. But audio is something she just can't get herself to care about. I plan to set it up when she's not there and not say anything at all. She'll notice eventually and I'll say "I picked it up on sale."

A crap... well you found yourself a good one then (though being able to disguise anything as an apple product is never a bad thing). I would just do what you suggested... don't mention it and then if/when she notices it... say you got a good deal on it!

Did ya get the black or the silver model? Does it match the rest of your gear?

 

[thomsbrain]

I got the black model, which I prefer, and it matches all my current (and planned) gear. Black was also cheaper by like $100. A no-brainer!

I ordered a few quiet 80 mm case fans from Newegg and went to Radio Shack to get an AC/DC adapter and some crimp connectors. I'll wire them up and plug them into the switched outlet on the 805 for additional cooling, since everyone says it runs hot. I'm not sure if I'll cut holes in the back of my equipment shelves or just lay the fans on top of the grill. Probably the latter since it would be easier and less permanent. The shelves don't have doors, but they also won't have much airspace in on the sides or back so I want to make sure this thing doesn't toast itself. I've heard of them even catching on fire. :Q

 

[driftwood07]

i have been eyeing the 805 for awhile now too. i don't even have any speakers or sub to go with it yet, but after reading so many people are snatching it up before they are all gone (and 806 takes over) i bit and ordered from amazon for 622$. now i just hope in next months before i get some speakers i don't regret this 50 lb. paperweight just sitting around

edit: i actually have some Infinity Primus P360's on backorder from when Fry's had them for 100 a piece. can anyone report to if these speakers will do this receiver justice? i am also thinking about getting the hsu vtf3-mk3 sub to go with them. thanks.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: driftwood07
i have been eyeing the 805 for awhile now too. i don't even have any speakers or sub to go with it yet, but after reading so many people are snatching it up before they are all gone (and 806 takes over) i bit and ordered from amazon for 622$. now i just hope in next months before i get some speakers i don't regret this 50 lb. paperweight just sitting around

edit: i actually have some Infinity Primus P360's on backorder from when Fry's had them for 100 a piece. can anyone report to if these speakers will do this receiver justice? i am also thinking about getting the hsu vtf3-mk3 sub to go with them. thanks.

In general I think a good guideline for a balanced system is something like 2:1:1 for speakers:receiver:sub.

The HSU would definitely fit in with that balancing. The Primus line from Infinity is pretty basic though. Not that they wouldn't sound good with the Onkyo and HSU, but I would personally be spending more on the speakers. I think that's where you're going to notice the biggest amount of quality difference, so I would invest in some nice ones there. I don't know if that throws your whole budget off though.

Are you just doing 2.1 or is this a surround sound system?

 

[driftwood07]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: driftwood07
i have been eyeing the 805 for awhile now too. i don't even have any speakers or sub to go with it yet, but after reading so many people are snatching it up before they are all gone (and 806 takes over) i bit and ordered from amazon for 622$. now i just hope in next months before i get some speakers i don't regret this 50 lb. paperweight just sitting around

edit: i actually have some Infinity Primus P360's on backorder from when Fry's had them for 100 a piece. can anyone report to if these speakers will do this receiver justice? i am also thinking about getting the hsu vtf3-mk3 sub to go with them. thanks.

In general I think a good guideline for a balanced system is something like 2:1:1 for speakers:receiver:sub.

The HSU would definitely fit in with that balancing. The Primus line from Infinity is pretty basic though. Not that they wouldn't sound good with the Onkyo and HSU, but I would personally be spending more on the speakers. I think that's where you're going to notice the biggest amount of quality difference, so I would invest in some nice ones there. I don't know if that throws your whole budget off though.

Are you just doing 2.1 or is this a surround sound system?

initially its going to be a 4.1 setup. i actually have some old bookshelf speakers from the 80's that are nothing special, but i will use them for the rears with the 360's as the fronts and either a vtf-2 mk3 or vtf3-mk3 as the sub. i ended up spending twice as much on the receiver as i thought i would initially (was going to get a onkyo 605) as well as whichever sub i get it will be about twice as much as my original 300$ budget for a sub. however, my thinking was with that receiver and sub i will never have to upgrade or even think of upgrading them, so the initial major purchase is worth not buying them again in a few years. the 360's i just picked up because they were on sale (normally $300?) and had good reviews. after purchasing 2 fronts/rec/sub and having the rears already i don't plan on (and can't afford) purchasing anything else for quite a while, but next step would be to get a quality center channel (would Infinity PC350 be good enough?), and eventually upgrade the front speakers to something better (according to your rubric in the $1200 range? - and in the 2:1:1 you said, does that 2 mean per speaker or for the two fronts ? - and then what about a center?, right now my ratio is more like 1:3:3 with what i paid for the fronts or 1:1:1 if you go by retail for both fronts together) like you suggested, then move the 360's to the rear, where they are probably more than capable, and retire the old bookshelves. i know the sub/rec are sorta overkill compared to the fronts and they would have paired better with a smaller sub or a onkyo 605 model, but at least this way the upgrade route only involves moving the fronts to the rear and not replacing anything.
this is my first experience with home theatre setup and i will be using it mostly for music. im already kicking myself in the ass for spending this much on just a rec and 2 speakers so far since im still in college and broke, but im a firm believer in buying something right the first time so you dont end up spending twice as much in the long run. does this sound like a solid system building route to have something fairly high end within a few years? thanks.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: driftwood07

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: driftwood07
i have been eyeing the 805 for awhile now too. i don't even have any speakers or sub to go with it yet, but after reading so many people are snatching it up before they are all gone (and 806 takes over) i bit and ordered from amazon for 622$. now i just hope in next months before i get some speakers i don't regret this 50 lb. paperweight just sitting around

edit: i actually have some Infinity Primus P360's on backorder from when Fry's had them for 100 a piece. can anyone report to if these speakers will do this receiver justice? i am also thinking about getting the hsu vtf3-mk3 sub to go with them. thanks.

In general I think a good guideline for a balanced system is something like 2:1:1 for speakers:receiver:sub.

The HSU would definitely fit in with that balancing. The Primus line from Infinity is pretty basic though. Not that they wouldn't sound good with the Onkyo and HSU, but I would personally be spending more on the speakers. I think that's where you're going to notice the biggest amount of quality difference, so I would invest in some nice ones there. I don't know if that throws your whole budget off though.

Are you just doing 2.1 or is this a surround sound system?

initially its going to be a 4.1 setup. i actually have some old bookshelf speakers from the 80's that are nothing special, but i will use them for the rears with the 360's as the fronts and either a vtf-2 mk3 or vtf3-mk3 as the sub. i ended up spending twice as much on the receiver as i thought i would initially (was going to get a onkyo 605) as well as whichever sub i get it will be about twice as much as my original 300$ budget for a sub. however, my thinking was with that receiver and sub i will never have to upgrade or even think of upgrading them, so the initial major purchase is worth not buying them again in a few years. the 360's i just picked up because they were on sale (normally $300?) and had good reviews. after purchasing 2 fronts/rec/sub and having the rears already i don't plan on (and can't afford) purchasing anything else for quite a while, but next step would be to get a quality center channel (would Infinity PC350 be good enough?), and eventually upgrade the front speakers to something better (according to your rubric in the $1200 range? - and in the 2:1:1 you said, does that 2 mean per speaker or for the two fronts ? - and then what about a center?) like you suggested, then move the 360's to the rear, where they are probably more than capable, and retire the old bookshelves. i know the sub/rec are sorta overkill compared to the fronts and they would have paired better with a smaller sub or a onkyo 605 model, but at least this way the upgrade route only involves moving the fronts to the rear and not replacing anything.
this is my first experience with home theatre setup and i will be using it mostly for music. im already kicking myself in the ass for spending this much on just a rec and 2 speakers so far since im still in college and broke, but im a firm believer in buying something right the first time so you dont end up spending twice as much in the long run. does this sound like a solid system building route to have something fairly high end? thanks.

I do like the idea of "do it right the first time" with components, but unfortunately this works much better in the speakers / sub department than receivers. I don't know what the future has in store for receiver tech over the next few years, but I suspect that the trend will continue where new receiver features will be an incentive to upgrade. The 805 has most of the features you'd want now though, which is about as much as you can ask for.

As for purchasing a center channel, I wouldn't get one until you're set on your front speakers. If you get the matching primus center and then your next step is to upgrade the front two speakers, you'll want to upgrade the center right away again to get a matching one. I think in most cases you're better off without a center than running a mismatched one.

On the other hand, you could move the primus center to rear duty and run 6.1 with a new matched center to whatever you end up getting next.

For music, the front two speakers are going to be the most important speakers. For best results, you'll probably end up running 2.1 for music unless you're listening to music that's multichannel (DVD-A, etc.). My 2:1:1 ratio is aimed at a 5.1 system, but in the case of a 2.1 system, you'd still want to spend a good chunk of your budget on the speakers since quality speakers are even more important for music than HT. I'm not really a 2 channel guy since I'm HT focused, but I would still think spending at much or more on 2 speakers as your receiver would be a more balanced system.

Throwing more money at components isn't necessarily a guarantee of quality though. A random pair of $600 speakers might sound worse to you than the Infinity Primus set. It's all about personal preference and finding the right fit for you (see the auditioning section of the sticky thread).

Also, the guidelines for spending ratio can be way off depending on your setup environment. If you're trying to fill a very large room, a really solid subwoofer is going to be necessary to pressurize the room regardless of what you pick for speakers. A large room and long speaker distances are also going to cause some concern for volume and a more robust receiver with high power output (like the 805) or external amplification might be necessary depending on the listening habits of the customer. If this is for a college dorm or something, then a $400 sub could be all you could want (and more) to fill up a space that size.

As for the "high end" evaluation of the system as a whole, nope. MSRP on the stuff I'm using for audio is roughly $8000 (paid much less of course), but I would call my system upper midrange at best. There are whole other levels of component prices that are associated with "high end".

 

[driftwood07]

"I'm not really a 2 channel guy since I'm HT focused, but I would still think spending at much or more on 2 speakers as your receiver would be a more balanced system.'

i know that price is little indication, but one of the only subjective things we can go by, but the 300/piece msrp for the 360's would put them about 1:1 for the pair with the receiver, sorta following your guideline for at least 'as much.'
i agree that a good pair of speakers is much longer lasting tech wise than the electronics in a receiver, but since the majority of the outdating of receivers is video/soundtrack decoding/inputs related from my understanding (maybe im wrong) and i dont even own a television, i was more concerned with 2 channel music. what made me decide on the 805 was purely the amplifier quality (and all the current video related goodies are the bonus - maybe there was a option with similar audio amplifying much cheaper?), which i assume is going to be pretty solid for years to come, and have potential to be only better when paired with some better fronts/center in the future. my plan is within the next 2 years to complete the set w. a tv, new fronts?, and a center and i hope the rec/sub/current fronts will hold their ground till then. thanks for your input\advice, any further insite is appreciated.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

For dedicated music, there might have been a better option for you for $600, but if a HT related system is in your future, then the 805 (or something like it) is a good bet.

If you're going off MSRP, then you'd end up with a $1100 pair of speakers to match the 805

So the 360s are on backorder for you? In the mean time, would you be able to go out and demo some different speakers to give yourself an idea of what the differences are? The 360s may sound great to you, or they might not. Is there anywhere near you that would let you try out the primus set?

 

[driftwood07]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
For dedicated music, there might have been a better option for you for $600, but if a HT related system is in your future, then the 805 (or something like it) is a good bet.

If you're going off MSRP, then you'd end up with a $1100 pair of speakers to match the 805

So the 360s are on backorder for you? In the mean time, would you be able to go out and demo some different speakers to give yourself an idea of what the differences are? The 360s may sound great to you, or they might not. Is there anywhere near you that would let you try out the primus set?

definitely going to be moving to HT system within a year or two when i can get a center and possibly upgrade fronts. for now a 'nice' 2.1 music/4.1 theatre setup will do.
you are right about the MSRP thing, its still 600:1100 to be accurate which is polar opposite of your original advise.
to be truthful i don't know what high end (i know the sky is the limit, but for my level of knowledge/budget, lets call companies like klipsch,infinity,polk, ... fairly 'high end') speakers sound like exactly and there aren't any premium audio stores around my area to demo anything. when i ordered the 360's a few weeks ago i saw myself spending about spending 600$ on a pair of speakers and 300 for a sub and 300 for a receiver, so why not get the 600$ speaks for 200$ !, and coming from a z-5500 computer speaker setup, having some dedicated infinitys seemed pretty good. i also came to realize buying a better sub would be worth it.
with some knowledge of my situation/budget now can you give me any advise on a specific model(s) that would pair better with the 805 and a hsu vtf2 or 3 for future reference? the only way i could see myself getting $2000 speakers in the future ( to follow the 2:1:1 ) is if they were largely marked down like the 360s were.
looking at subs i came to realize that many people put direct co's like svs/hsu on another level completely than the retail store brands, im sure it holds the same with speakers, so could you give me an idea on a comparable 'true speaker' company that would fit my system? ... with no way of listening though and with the order in and already over budget im just going to have to gamble that the infinitys will be music to my ears (unless you have a better suggestion)
thanks :thumbsup:

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Most companies (including klipsch, infinity, and polk) are going to have entry level options up to upper midrange options.

For example, Klipsch has speakers for $200/pair all the way up to $20,000/pair

The company itself doesn't tell you if it's low end, midrange, or high end. You'll have to consider certain speaker lines to get an idea of where products fall in the grand scheme of things.

Companies like Paradigm, B&W, etc. (generally a step up from the mass retail brands) might have a dealer close to you if you search their websites for the dealer locater.

You don't have to buy different speakers just because you got a good price on the 805.

I have several suggestions in the sticky thread for internet direct brands of speakers.
I have a pair of these up front http://av123.com/component/pag..._virtuemart/Itemid,37/ which I got for $1250 shipped. Many of the online brands will give you very good in home trial policies which may even include shipping both ways.
If I was starting a speaker search over again, I'd test out a few pairs of internet direct speakers in my own room and decide which ones I liked the best. If the plan is to get a nice sub with the system, I would probably be looking for bookshelf speakers rather than floorstanding speakers too. How big is this room going to be again?

 

[driftwood07]

first room set goes in is going to be probably around 20x15 if i put it in living room of my place. if i decide to put it in my room, thats only about 8x11. either scenario will change a year from now when im out of college and move.
i took a look at your setup on the links you have, and kudos on a great HT, but i've come to realize you are in an entirely different league than me right now. maybe after a few years using my electrical/comp eng degree i can move up to that kind of equipment. i'm curious how you got the av123's you listed for 1250 (im assuming thats 1250 a piece) , like was it a site sale or something , as
that level of speaker may be a future upgrade.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I got them used.

$1250 shipped for the pair. Getting used stuff is a great way to stretch your dollar. I got both my subs used as well. There's usually a very good Christmas sale at AV123 as well, so there might be some very good deals lately. Those usually involve whole 5.1 packages though.

It's good that you're thinking ahead to what the use of the system will be like in a couple years.

 

[thomsbrain]

av123's current 5.1 X-series sales seem like a pretty good deal. It's basically like getting the rear towers for free. They have two options for subs, at different prices. If I hadn't blown my disposable income for the month on the receiver, I'd get one of those. Hopefully they still have them in a few months.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

The X-Static package is certainly not a big savings (I think it's only $47 off the regular price), but the other packages look pretty decent.

 

[driftwood07]

jello, mind telling me the means you usually take for used stereo equipment? personally i'm not crazy about ebay and that sorta thing, but i know of and support craigslist. i figure there is also probably a specific community of stereo equipment owners who sell/trade as they upgrade and a website to aid them. a used svs/hsu/similar sub sounds very appealing to stretch the buck and make up for the questionable receiver purchase .

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

As always, be cautious when buying used equipments from individuals, but there are a few places to look for HT related stuff.

http://www.audiogon.com/
http://www.digitaltheater.com/
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified.php

Some companies have classifieds areas on their forums as well
http://av123forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14

I've bought through audiogon and the AV123 forum. I've also used Craigslist to get the setup my parents are using (Axiom M22 / Axiom VP150 / AV123 ULW-10 / Onkyo 602 / stands for $750), and ebay to get one of my subs.

 

[Reel]

Had one for maybe 6 months now. Love it. Enjoy. Read this FAQ: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=935808 (yes I know 705 is not 805 but just read it).

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: Reel
Had one for maybe 6 months now. Love it. Enjoy. Read this FAQ: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=935808 (yes I know 705 is not 805 but just read it).

That was a great FAQ that addressed a number of gaps in my knowledge of how Blu-Ray codecs and surround processing works in general. Thanks!

The amount of info and setup required to get these things to work to their full potential is nearly as complicated as computer overclocking (maybe more so!). It's no wonder so many people just get a HTIB and call it a day.

 

[thomsbrain]

I got it today!

First impression: They gave me the French/Spanish manual instead of the English one! Esta empresa es muy estúpido!

However, it was actually pretty easy to set up without needing the manual, right through assigning digital inputs to video inputs and buttons and setting crossovers and preferred surround processing. I haven't run Audyssey yet because I want to look around for my tripod for the mic. But everything else was pretty self-explanatory through the on-screen menus.

This thing is certainly very heavy, and lifting it up onto its shelf after hooking up the cables was fairly strenuous. It is so damn deep that it barely fits on the shelf, and hangs out the front by a few inches (not a big deal). It does run hot (can barely hold your hand on it), so I will definitely be hooking up those fans next.

Sound quality is noticeably improved over my old Pro Logic Pioneer, even with my crummy speakers. At first it sounded really laid-back, but after a few hours of listening to various DVD's and CD's, I realized I was more noticing an absence of peaks in frequency response that I had become used to with the old unit. I'm already hearing new details in favorite CD's, and there is a vastly improved sense of depth in the imaging. Different sounds seem to float in space forward and back, not just side to side, (and this is with a 3.1 setup). Having active bass management is a godsend, since my old receiver merely doubled bass. Not requiring my Bose speakers to play down low has really cleaned up the bass in general, and frequency response down low seems to have been smoothed out as a result. Highs seem to be both clearer and less strident than the old unit, which allows for higher volumes without fatigue.

My first DTS experience was great. Again, depth was much improved, as well as channel separation (not surprising). Bass digs deeper and has more punch and clarity than the old Pro Logic/stereo mixes from the same DVD. Of course part of that is due to improved encoding, but the improvements seen with CD's are all there, as well.

My CD and DVD player now have digital connections, and I was able to hook up the PS2 using "proper" S-video connections instead of using an RF switch like before. Picture seems clearer as a result (not saying much).

Anyway, I know that given my other equipment, probably 90% of the above improvements would be there with any receiver costing half as much, but it's only the first step, and should allow all future upgrades to shine at their best. And I've always been a sucker for smooth D/A, and these seem to be very transparent.

Anyway, I do wish it wasn't so damn deep (18-19" with cabling in back), but that's pretty much my only gripe so far. *fingers crossed*

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: driftwood07
i have been eyeing the 805 for awhile now too. i don't even have any speakers or sub to go with it yet, but after reading so many people are snatching it up before they are all gone (and 806 takes over) i bit and ordered from amazon for 622$. now i just hope in next months before i get some speakers i don't regret this 50 lb. paperweight just sitting around

edit: i actually have some Infinity Primus P360's on backorder from when Fry's had them for 100 a piece. can anyone report to if these speakers will do this receiver justice? i am also thinking about getting the hsu vtf3-mk3 sub to go with them. thanks.

That's a great deal on those 360s. That receiver should pair with those nicely. I think you will be very pleased for that price by those speakers. Just make sure you get the better of the Primus center channels to go with it.

Primus 360

You need this center channel for the best sound Infinity PC350 3-Way Dual 5.25" Center Channel Speaker

Harman-Audio Store Ebay

Harman Audio New and Refurb

Full factory warranty on refurbs, and many speakers sold as refurbs by Harman are actually new, but listed as refurbs. The box says on the outside if it's a refurb after you get it. About half of what I bought from them as refurbs were actually new. And their shipping charges are pretty reasonable and they ship fast.

 

[thomsbrain]

*update*

After only one week, the 805 started turning itself off as soon as I would turn it on. The manual indicates that it will do this if it senses an electrical fault. I disconnected everything, left it for an hour, then plugged in nothing but the power cable, and it still did it. So back to Amazon it goes. After this and some audio lag issues I couldn't fix, I will not be getting another one. I ordered a Denon AVR-988 to replace it. Specs are very close, but slightly less output and a less insane power transformer. Hopefully my luck is better.

At least my 805 didn't go up in flames like some people's. But it seems that build quality concerns are very real for those models. I didn't want the next one to have a problem just outside of warranty.