Puerto Rico can't pay it's $72B debt. Default like Greece?

[werepossum]

Congress will bitch, moan, grandstand, scold, wag fingers, and bail them out. Being a U.S. territory has advantages.

Yup. Hey, they are Americans at a severe disadvantage. I feel better bailing them out than, say, Detroit or investment bankers, both of whom had every advantage and blew them all.

Puerto Rico Can't Pay its Debt
Not paying your debt. Seems kind of trendy...

Uno

Lol +1

See! See! It really is going to capsize!


Actually, I haven't read that Guam is having any significant fiscal problems currently.

The good news is that Guam's other side is actually Atlantis. So once everyone climbs back on and dries off, they can use that advanced alien technology to usher in Nirvana. (Except for Cobain, he's dead.)

 

[gradoman]

Born, raised, and still living in the Caribbean. So I think I have some idea of "poor".

When I see Lambos, Ferrari's, Porches, etc driving around, I have a hard time seeing a poor island.

Of course my everyday experience may not embody the wider Caribbean.

You must be talking about the fraction of the 1% that have big bucks and live like kings and queens. Vast majority are struggling to make a living. In the USVI there's plenty of crime, plenty of poor people that can barely make ends meet.

Electricity and water were pretty damn high until recently, but they're still like twice what I pay here in the US Mainland. Power outages are still a part of life. Couldn't pay me to move back to that mess.

PR does have some rich, rich folks. Same as the USVI -- particularly in St John and St Thomas, but that's like a small minority that aren't even from the islands.

 

[rudder]

I guess trickle down didn't trickle enough

Well situations like this happen when people make more money sitting at home suckling on the government teet than getting a job..... As it is in Puerto Rico.

 

[Zorkorist]

It's not that. It's that Government steals money from the people. They do this because they are supposed to help "govern" the people. But what it really ends up being is that they steal money for themselves, and fuck the people.

Puerto Rico, is full of great, loving, people. I lived there for 2-3 years in my childhood.

Today, their entire culture, livelihood, has been obliterated by Government thieves.

[edit: financially]

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

1018 people are rich in Puerto Rico, and the country itself is left in despair.

Government.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

They should implement a balanced budget.

The very minimum of calling Government to the table.

We should implement a balanced budget amendment.

The very minimum of calling Government to the table.

-John

 

[glenn1]

Unless and until they get a federal bailout, this is me:

Anyone stupid enough to lend money to deadbeats like Greece and PR should not only lose their money but be publicly mocked when they inevitably do default. Let their names be published for a few weeks running on the front page of the Wall Street Journal so they're immediately known in the financial industry as the idiots who believed the bullshit of their debtors and lost tons of money by being stupid. I'd have the debtors publicly shamed also but I know they have no shame left and would continue prostituting themselves in a heartbeat if they had a willing buyer.

 

[Zorkorist]

Where were you ten years ago, when financial institutions, and Governments, took advantage of these countries?

You are pretty much to blame for their failure, as it was your Government, and it's policies that fucked them up.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

If I was Greece, or Puerto Rico, I would be sueing the governments that gave my government money.

None of it came to me. Therefore it was stolen.

-John

 

[glenn1]

Where were you ten years ago, when financial institutions, and Governments, took advantge of these countries?

You are pretty much rto blame for their failure, as it was your Government, and it's policies that fucked them up.

-John

Ten years ago I would have been likewise arguing that anyone who lends to these folks are idiots and seven years ago I was strenuously objecting to the financial sector bailouts. The contagion risk and loss of principal on positions then would have been far preferable to the increased moral hazard and too-big-to-fail system we now have in place.

As for Greece and PR, the vulture investors should lose every single penny of their investments. If it were up to me I'd mandate only qualified investors could invest in funds that hold low-quality sovereign debt. It was an open secret that Greece cooked the books to gain entry to the Eurozone and I have no sympathy whatsoever for the financial sharks who bought distressed Greek debt thinking they have a government bailout put option on their stake.

 

[Zorkorist]

Most Americans can't see that this is all related to the crash of 2008, and Obama's bailout. That we are still here in 2015, with many nations suffering even worse, goes to show how Obama, and or Government, fucked it all up.

It's going to take a people that can stand up to Government, before we will get anywhere.

-John

 

[glenn1]

Most Americans can't see that this is all related to the crash of 2008, and Obama's bailout. That we are still here in 2015, with many nations suffering even worse, goes to show how Obama, and or Government, fucked it all up.

It's going to take a people that can stand up to Government, before we will get anywhere.

-John

Bush started the bailouts and paid out most to the financial sector, Obama merely continued the financial sector coddling and added the automakers and a whole bunch more bullshit stimulus. The states certainly appreciated the free money though since they immediately reduced their own borrowing. No, we can't possibly let the citizens of states suffer when they vote stupidly. There ought to be a way to legally obligate people to the spending they vote for and force them to keep paying over time. As it is now they vote for stupid shit and then later just move to another state and leave the bills to the other poor schmucks who didn't move or weren't able to. Detroit is a perfect example of that.

 

[Zorkorist]

There ought to be a way to limit Government.

It's not the poeple that are the problem, it's Government.

The United States Constitution was/is woefully inadequate at limiting Government.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

The first thing the people can do is demand a balanced budget.

-John

 

[JEDI]

Most Americans can't see that this is all related to the crash of 2008, and BUSH Jrs fault. That we are still here in 2015, with many nations suffering even worse, goes to show how Bush Jr, and or Government, fucked it all up.

It's going to take a people that can stand up to Government, before we will get anywhere.

-John

Fixed

 

[nickqt]

There ought to be a way to limit Government.

It's not the poeple that are the problem, it's Government.

The United States Constitution was/is woefully inadequate at limiting Government.

-John

The people are the government.

Love it or leave it.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

The people are the government.

Love it or leave it.

Government in the US is (or at least it was) structured in a way to create checks and balances because the founders of this country realized and clearly understood just how STUPID and/or easy to manipulate "the people" can be when they believe they can have a "free" (no such thing as free in this universe or lifetime) cake and eat it at the same time. Especially when populist politicians and parties push the unsustainable idea that it is okay to spend money that is not there on perks and benefits without figuring out how to pay for those perks/benefits via higher taxes and/or cuts in spending elsewhere within government which comes in the form of a sound budget with foresight enough to understand that government revenue projections are not always absolute in the future.

However when you have an erosion of checks and balances within government that undermines the ability to check the rampant desire to have "FREE" stuff by "the people" without coming up with a serious and sound plan to pay for it all this is the moment when you get crap like runaway debt and currency crises similar to what we are seeing in the US territory of Puerto Rico, or in nations like Venezuela, Greece, Japan, etc or what we witnessed not to long ago in 2008 globally.

 

[nickqt]

Government in the US is (or at least it was) structured in a way to create checks and balances because the founders of this country realized and clearly understood just how STUPID and/or easy to manipulate "the people" can be when they believe they can have a "free" (no such thing as free in this universe or lifetime) cake and eat it at the same time. Especially when populist politicians and parties push the unsustainable idea that it is okay to spend money that is not there on perks and benefits without figuring out how to pay for those perks/benefits via higher taxes and/or cuts in spending elsewhere within government which comes in the form of a sound budget with foresight enough to understand that government revenue projections are not always absolute in the future.

However when you have an erosion of checks and balances within government that undermines the ability to check the rampant desire to have "FREE" stuff by "the people" without coming up with a serious and sound plan to pay for it all this is the moment when you get crap like runaway debt and currency crises similar to what we are seeing in the US territory of Puerto Rico, or in nations like Venezuela, Greece, Japan, etc or what we witnessed not to long ago in 2008 globally.

So what you're saying is, is that the Republican party is fiscally negligent since all of the 2012 candidates forswore 10:1 spending cuts to new taxes to pay for US expenditures?

So, it's utterly absurd and borderline seditious that many Republican politicians make pledges to individuals like Grover Norquist to never, ever, mcEveryEver-ever raise taxes (instead of thinking of oh, I don't know, perhaps their country, their constitution, their constituents first and foremost). You know, to pay for United States expenditures.

I totally agree!

 

[cabri]

Born, raised, and still living in the Caribbean. So I think I have some idea of "poor".

When I see Lambos, Ferrari's, Porches, etc driving around, I have a hard time seeing a poor island.

Of course my everyday experience may not embody the wider Caribbean.

I can see the same in Beverly Hills.

Not in Watts.

 

[Mursilis]

So what you're saying is, is that the Republican party is fiscally negligent since all of the 2012 candidates forswore 10:1 spending cuts to new taxes to pay for US expenditures?

So, it's utterly absurd and borderline seditious that many Republican politicians make pledges to individuals like Grover Norquist to never, ever, mcEveryEver-ever raise taxes (instead of thinking of oh, I don't know, perhaps their country, their constitution, their constituents first and foremost). You know, to pay for United States expenditures.

I totally agree!

Good thing we've got the Democrats to fix all that though!

 

[werepossum]

So what you're saying is, is that the Republican party is fiscally negligent since all of the 2012 candidates forswore 10:1 spending cuts to new taxes to pay for US expenditures?

So, it's utterly absurd and borderline seditious that many Republican politicians make pledges to individuals like Grover Norquist to never, ever, mcEveryEver-ever raise taxes (instead of thinking of oh, I don't know, perhaps their country, their constitution, their constituents first and foremost). You know, to pay for United States expenditures.

I totally agree!

Very open-minded of you to say it's only borderline seditious to disagree with your political philosophy. Proggies aren't generally nearly that tolerant of dissent.

 

[Mursilis]

Very open-minded of you to say it's only borderline seditious to disagree with your political philosophy. Proggies aren't generally nearly that tolerant of dissent.

Quiet!!! Do you want the tolerance police to come for you!??!

 

[boomerang]

Just read at an obscure site that a government shutdown in Illinois may be imminent. To paraphrase the reverend that Obama listened to but didn't really listen to, the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[IronWing]

Just read at an obscure site that a government shutdown in Illinois may be imminent. To paraphrase the reverend that Obama listened to but didn't really listen to, the chickens are coming home to roost.

NPR covered it this morning. The Gov wants his bag of goodies before he'll entertain a budget. The Legislature just wants a budget. Personality politics seem to be in play more than any fundamental disagreements about the budget.

 

[unokitty]

NPR covered it this morning. The Gov wants his bag of goodies before he'll entertain a budget. The Legislature just wants a budget. Personality politics seem to be in play more than any fundamental disagreements about the budget.

Which state has sent the most governors to prison?

If you said Illinois, you win. 4 out of previous 7 Illinois governors went to prison...

Rauner Vetoes Most Of State Budget, Cites $4 Billion Deficit

The governor blamed House Speaker Michael Madigan and Senate President John Cullerton for sending him a spending plan that is nearly $4 billion short on revenue.

I don't understand what the problem is. Did any of the previous Illinois Governors have problems spending money they didn't have?

Did Puerto Rico have problems spending money that they didn't have?

Did Greece have problems spending money that they didn't have?

Won't someone think of the children?

Uno