Public defenders.....?

MacBaine

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Aug 23, 2001
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Ok... one thing I have always wondered... when somebody commits a violent crime, such as murder, and they have a court appointed attorney... how can the attorney defend the person? What I mean is...well use the thread about the guy who videotaped his girlfriend's murder as an example. His defending lawyer was court appointed. After watching the video, how can the attorney really believe that he is innocent? And in some cases, they use every loophole they can find to get the person off. I mean... do the lawyers have some ability to not be biased whatsoever by the evidence they see? If I saw a videotape of my client killing his girlfriend and laughing about it, there is no way I would even want to defend him anymore. Do you all see what I mean? I just don't get it. :confused:
 

TNTrulez

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Aug 3, 2001
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Well. . . they don't have to defend the person but some attorneys view the case separate from their point of view. That's why people like that still get a defender. I mean it's not perfect but what if that person was innocent and the tapes were doctored?
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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It depends on what the accused asks of his lawyer. If he wants to use any possible defense to prosecution hes entitled to get it.

His attorney may then obtain the relevent facts and advise his client to either plead guilty for a lessor sentence if possible or reccomend the best possible angle to present his case.

Its a two way street.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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A court appointed attorney is supposed to be unbiased. It is like having one's own attorney, but yet is paid for by the taxpayers. They do not work for, nor favor the court. They should afford the same representation as a private attorney. I believe a PD can decline a client, if they feel prejudiced, as can a private attorney.
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
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After watching the video, how can the attorney really believe that he is innocent?


just because the prosecutors SAY so and so about the tape doesnt make it true. I mean, that women was stupid enough to be on a chair willingly with her neck around a noose, there is more to the story than a simple murder.
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
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My son needed defense by a publicdefender when he ws a juvinile, and the SOB set my son up for a trip to jail for 2 months. when I asked what the hell he was doing, he said all he has to do as a PD is inform his client if the actions being taken against him are legal. IE: the mofo didn't like my son and set him up for a jail stint as soon as his case was called at the bench. He appeared in court as he was notified to do,expecting to enter a plea,and the friggin lawyer called his name, he stood up and was immediately handcuffed and led away to jail.

What goes around, comes around. The friggin PD was busted on drug charges and disbarred about 1 year later. Now when I see him on the street, he crosses to the other side. He knows the bad blood between us. I would love to kick his ass, and he knows it. I've told him.

PDs in my community are apointed by the bench to serve whether they want to or not. They are pulled from the lawyer community at random,and are instructed by the court that they only need insure that the defendants rights are not violated. They do not have an obligation whatsoever to mount a defense of any kind. The jails are full of prisoners incarcerated only because of the lack of money to defend themselves,and the misguided faith they had in thinking a PD would defend them. It just doesn't happen folks. If you are arrested, hire an attorney. A PD will get you thrown in the pokey as fast as if you admitted guilt without an attorney present. Don't ever trust a PD.
 

MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
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Originally posted by: Tripleshot
My son needed defense by a publicdefender when he ws a juvinile, and the SOB set my son up for a trip to jail for 2 months. when I asked what the hell he was doing, he said all he has to do as a PD is inform his client if the actions being taken against him are legal. IE: the mofo didn't like my son and set him up for a jail stint as soon as his case was called at the bench. He appeared in court as he was notified to do,expecting to enter a plea,and the friggin lawyer called his name, he stood up and was immediately handcuffed and led away to jail.

What goes around, comes around. The friggin PD was busted on drug charges and disbarred about 1 year later. Now when I see him on the street, he crosses to the other side. He knows the bad blood between us. I would love to kick his ass, and he knows it. I've told him.

PDs in my community are apointed by the bench to serve whether they want to or not. They are pulled from the lawyer community at random,and are instructed by the court that they only need insure that the defendants rights are not violated. They do not have an obligation whatsoever to mount a defense of any kind. The jails are full of prisoners incarcerated only because of the lack of money to defend themselves,and the misguided faith they had in thinking a PD would defend them. It just doesn't happen folks. If you are arrested, hire an attorney. A PD will get you thrown in the pokey as fast as if you admitted guilt without an attorney present. Don't ever trust a PD.

Damn...
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
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I worked for a short time in a Public Defender's office. Here's my impressions based on that experience:

1. Attorneys are required (usually by law and/or the ethics of their profession) to represent their clients (even scumbags) to the best of their abilities. A few years ago, the phrase "required to zealously represent their clients" was changed to something not quite as strong (but I forget the exact words).

2. Defense attorneys get paid to do a job. They don't get paid much, but they do get paid. If the job says they gotta do it, they gotta do it.

3. Attorneys are not required to lie for their clients. This means that if a client tells his lawyer that he's guilty, but insists on pleading innocent, the lawyer can ask the judge to excuse him (the attorney) from the case. I'm not sure how often this sort of thing actually happens.

4. Our justice system is adversarial in nature. That means that the prosecutors push for as much as they can, and the defense pushes back as hard as they can. Then it's up to the judge and jury to decide how justice and the law apply. I've seen prosecutors go overboard in their efforts, IMHO. I guess that's their job. Just as the defense tries to protect their clients. Even if it means getting a client off on a mere technicality.

5. I think that in order to work in the criminal legal system, the attorneys have to really really believe that the system works well. They have to believe that if both the prosecution and the defense do their jobs right, that real justice will be served. Remember, defense attorneys aren't there to be the judge and jury. They're there to present ONE and only ONE side of the case.

6. In direct contradiction to #5 (above), I think that some defense attorneys (purposefully) just don't think about it. It's kind of like a psychological defense mechanism.

7. I talked with the attorney who defended John Wayne Gacy (mass murderer who buried boys in his house, crawlspace, backyard, etc. - was finally executed a few years back). He was absolutely convinced that Gacy was not working alone (Gacy was the only one ever convicted in these murders). I think it's possible that this could be true. But it's also possible that the attorney simply created an explanation that his mind could accept, which would justify his representing Gacy. I dunno.

8. In reference to the scumbag who videotaped murdering his girlfriend: His attorney probably justified the "not guilty" plea because technically, it's not murder if his client is insane, or didn't premeditate it, or something like that. Or, this particular lawyer could belong to #9 (below).

9. Some attorneys are scumbags. Remember, a lot of them enter politics, like Bill and Hillary. :)


That being said, I ain't ever gonna work for PD again. The attorneys there were great, but I really really hate scumbags.

 

jaeger66

Banned
Jan 1, 2001
3,852
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Originally posted by: MacBaine
Ok... one thing I have always wondered... when somebody commits a violent crime, such as murder, and they have a court appointed attorney... how can the attorney defend the person? What I mean is...well use the thread about the guy who videotaped his girlfriend's murder as an example. His defending lawyer was court appointed. After watching the video, how can the attorney really believe that he is innocent? And in some cases, they use every loophole they can find to get the person off. I mean... do the lawyers have some ability to not be biased whatsoever by the evidence they see? If I saw a videotape of my client killing his girlfriend and laughing about it, there is no way I would even want to defend him anymore. Do you all see what I mean? I just don't get it. :confused:

The rules of evidence are not loopholes. If the tape was obtained in an illegal search the defense attorney could have it thrown out. His job is not to like or believe the client, but to force the prosecution to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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If you are arrested, hire an attorney. A PD will get you thrown in the pokey as fast as if you admitted guilt without an attorney present. Don't ever trust a PD.

This is ridiculous, totally uninformed advice, and even as a prosecutor I resent it. Most PDs are hardworking and bright, and certainly more experienced criminal litigators than most lawyers in private practice. I have seen significantly less prepared, less competent attorneys come out of private practice than out of a PD's office.

Your son's experience is unusual in that the lawyer was later disbarred, but it is not clear to me that the lawyer did anything wrong in your son's case - it sounds likelier that your son lied to you about the extent of his involvement in a serious crime (since the judge, not the PD, sentences a defendant, and two months for a first offense is very stiff), and possibly about the state of the prosecution against him as well. If you are right about how PDs in your locality are chosen (which I frankly doubt, as I have never heard of such a thing), obviously that creates an issue, but even then they have an affirmative duty to zealously represent their clients.
 

PowerMac4Ever

Banned
Dec 9, 2000
5,246
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Originally posted by: Tripleshot
My son needed defense by a publicdefender when he ws a juvinile, and the SOB set my son up for a trip to jail for 2 months. when I asked what the hell he was doing, he said all he has to do as a PD is inform his client if the actions being taken against him are legal. IE: the mofo didn't like my son and set him up for a jail stint as soon as his case was called at the bench. He appeared in court as he was notified to do,expecting to enter a plea,and the friggin lawyer called his name, he stood up and was immediately handcuffed and led away to jail.

What goes around, comes around. The friggin PD was busted on drug charges and disbarred about 1 year later. Now when I see him on the street, he crosses to the other side. He knows the bad blood between us. I would love to kick his ass, and he knows it. I've told him.

PDs in my community are apointed by the bench to serve whether they want to or not. They are pulled from the lawyer community at random,and are instructed by the court that they only need insure that the defendants rights are not violated. They do not have an obligation whatsoever to mount a defense of any kind. The jails are full of prisoners incarcerated only because of the lack of money to defend themselves,and the misguided faith they had in thinking a PD would defend them. It just doesn't happen folks. If you are arrested, hire an attorney. A PD will get you thrown in the pokey as fast as if you admitted guilt without an attorney present. Don't ever trust a PD.
Did your son really do the crime though?