Psychopath v. Sociopath (re: Silence of the Lambs)

[DainBramaged]

Coworker and I were having a discussion. From what (very little) I know, Buffalo Bill was a psychopath. Lecter was a sociopath AND a psychopath.

True? False? Other things?

 

[Captante]

Per Dr Google:


The Difference Between Sociopath and Psychopath:

While psychopaths are classified as people with little or no conscience, sociopaths do have a limited, albeit weak, ability to feel empathy and remorse. Psychopaths can and do follow social conventions when it suits their needs.

Jun 15, 2020


Based on the assumption the above is accurate I'd say "true".


What’s the Difference Between a Psychopath and a Sociopath? And How Do Both Differ from Narcissists?

*(Britannica.com link)

 

[Torn Mind]

Psychos and socios put forth the most beautiful fronts and convincing. The are superconformers to social norms and thus are extremely pleasing to engage in casually amongst people with some moral sense.

The commoner will not admit but they are the psycho and sociopaths' bitch and they willingly will be one if it conforms to the commoner's outlook.

 

[Captante]

 

[DainBramaged]

Per Dr Google:


The Difference Between Sociopath and Psychopath:

While psychopaths are classified as people with little or no conscience, sociopaths do have a limited, albeit weak, ability to feel empathy and remorse. Psychopaths can and do follow social conventions when it suits their needs.

Jun 15, 2020


Based on the assumption the above is accurate I'd say "true".


What’s the Difference Between a Psychopath and a Sociopath? And How Do Both Differ from Narcissists?

*(Britannica.com link)

Lol. Thanks. Supports my pov. 😆

 

[gorobei]

i looked up the difference between the two back in the 2000's, there was none. they were different terms referring to the same behavior in the DSM (US) and whatever the UK uses.

the distinction in language usage is recent (last decade) with new connotations added based on the "psycho" and "socio" prefix. and per the britannica link psychologists use term antisocial personality disorder (APD) and only really qualify it by a number of behaviors that the individual displays which may only be some and not all of the behaviors. so someone would be APD with 1,3,7,12,etc.

lay people using the terms now have likely have no actual professional training in the usage/diagnosis so it is functionally moot.

 

[brianmanahan]

see also: dari

 

[Torn Mind]

i looked up the difference between the two back in the 2000's, there was none. they were different terms referring to the same behavior in the DSM (US) and whatever the UK uses.

the distinction in language usage is recent (last decade) with new connotations added based on the "psycho" and "socio" prefix. and per the britannica link psychologists use term antisocial personality disorder (APD) and only really qualify it by a number of behaviors that the individual displays which may only be some and not all of the behaviors. so someone would be APD with 1,3,7,12,etc.

lay people using the terms now have likely have no actual professional training in the usage/diagnosis so it is functionally moot.

I actually believe the clinical definition betrays a sort of collective insecurity present regarding human conduct. People do not want to believe that other humans are such pieces of shit.

I would say psychopaths and sociopaths are “super”-social. As in they understand others are react semi-automatically to social cues automatically and they know exactly what to say to get the intended response.

The genetic distinction is real. But plenty of industries can develop so-called antisocial behaviors. Salesmen in general are one. Car salesmen, real estate agents, insurance salesmen. Practice in testing legal authorities can also create people who can say whatever is most sympathetic to the case regardless of what actually happened. Policiticans, activists, lawyers, government officials, career criminals(especially sex offenders), “professional tenants”.

Sometimes even culture alone has a tendency to make sociopaths. The Nigerian scammer is actually just a extreme manifestation of normal Nigerian conduct.

Many businessmen get both the sales and legal training. The drug dealer is especially adept in suckering sympathetic bourgeois into believing the entirety of their plight because they understand both law and sales even without professional education.

 

[HomerJS]

Psychopath. This chick has the splitting personality traits as Trump

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think the DSM doesn't consider them different any longer.

FYI, psychopath does not mean they're serial killers. There's been a scientist (doctor?) using brain scans to detect psychopathy, and in the process of doing so found out he himself is one. Like any mental health condition, its just something you have to deal with but can be overcome.

 

[Captante]

I think the DSM doesn't consider them different any longer.

FYI, psychopath does not mean they're serial killers. There's been a scientist (doctor?) using brain scans to detect psychopathy, and in the process of doing so found out he himself is one. Like any mental health condition, its just something you have to deal with but can be overcome.

Makes sense .... my first thought was that the two conditions have a lot of overlap.

 

[Charmonium]

I think the DSM doesn't consider them different any longer.

FYI, psychopath does not mean they're serial killers. There's been a scientist (doctor?) using brain scans to detect psychopathy, and in the process of doing so found out he himself is one. Like any mental health condition, its just something you have to deal with but can be overcome.

I personally think that's pretty accurate. At my very lizard brain core, I'm mostly convinced that I at least emerged with a definite kinship for those pathologies. I mention that because I think they're less of a pathology than a disability in the same very general sense as people on the autism spectrum. I don't have anything to back this up but I tend to regard them as genetically enlightened sociopaths. By that I mean that even though you can see the traces if you look closely, they're not by nature . . . mmm, let's just for the moment use the word "dangerous." A sociopath isn't innately "evil." They just have a propensity for evil. And it's not because they're so completely twisted that they see evil as the objective. It's just that on a very basic level, they just don't get why evil has such a bad rap. I mean, if any manner of horrific outcomes were not an issue, it's a type of naivete that's in some sense (that only a grizzled shrink might appreciate) sort of . . . cute. Almost cuddly.

The point is that those folks don't live in the same social reality that most humans inhabit. I'm somewhere near the cusp though which is kind of awkward. I've been very, very extensively socialized at least in terms of morality, ethics and the basic principle that you should try to avoid hurting people. But the fact of the matter is, even though it would never even occur to me to anything rude or offensive let alone worse, I don't always make the necessary associations, especially if I'm well past annoyed. So my track record is far from perfect. I just tell myself that they will no doubt survive so, you know, lighten up dude.

 

[maluckey1]

Like all things psychology, it's vague. Both terms are mostly interchangeable under the banner of ASPD.

By definition, these individuals are out-group members, meaning that anything we learn from them is strictly voluntary (on their part). Unfortunately, the first part of ASPD is "ANTI-social". By post-mortem review of their activities and general observation, they are known to be secretive, manipulative and at core (for many reasons), quite antisocial. Believing what they say is the definition of going down a "rabbit hole".

I've worked in and around federal prisons, state prisons and in various combat zones. I've run into a few of these people. They struck me as very inward focused. They didn't normally expose anything "emotional" to you without good reason...and that reason is almost always to get what they want. One other thing I noticed is that they lied about most things, not necessarily lies of commission, but VERY often used lies of omission or "colorization" of the material facts to try to manipulate you to thinking about something in the way they perceived it.

On the surface they were easy enough to talk to, and in some case likeable enough to hang out with. Once the conversation turned to something of substance, they either avoided it entirely, or began the lies. They would argue, deflect and try to steer the conversation to a place where they felt more comfortable. You only saw the reflection of the true person, and not ever by intention on their part. Once you get into the groove talking with them you get that they're untrustworthy, and won't willingly do anything unless it's in their own interest.

I also believe it's more common than we think. The more savvy ones are good at avoiding detection and trouble. They are great middle-level workers in areas where being cold and calculating is a bonus. Think of careers where manipulating others is a plus, or careers where treating others badly isn't necessarily frowned upon, and you'll find them.

 

[zinfamous]

I always thought a psychopath was just a sociopath with a chainsaw.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think psychopaths are pretty prevalent in CEO and upper management positions, which shouldn't surprise really, basically anyone that has had to deal with such people. Weirdly I think its considered a positive trait for that field, although I'm not sure in what way positive is affirmed (my guess is simply that psychopaths tend to be more successful in the corporate world).

Oh and here's the dude that was doing the study:

The Neuroscientist Who Discovered He Was a Psychopath

While studying brain scans to search for patterns that correlated with psychopathic behavior, James Fallon found that his own brain fit the profile

www.smithsonianmag.com

There's a bunch of articles about him, I haven't kept up to see what his most recent thoughts are. I seem to recall it already evolving some (simply due to his own personal behavior and experiences).

I personally think that's pretty accurate. At my very lizard brain core, I'm mostly convinced that I at least emerged with a definite kinship for those pathologies. I mention that because I think they're less of a pathology than a disability in the same very general sense as people on the autism spectrum. I don't have anything to back this up but I tend to regard them as genetically enlightened sociopaths. By that I mean that even though you can see the traces if you look closely, they're not by nature . . . mmm, let's just for the moment use the word "dangerous." A sociopath isn't innately "evil." They just have a propensity for evil. And it's not because they're so completely twisted that they see evil as the objective. It's just that on a very basic level, they just don't get why evil has such a bad rap. I mean, if any manner of horrific outcomes were not an issue, it's a type of naivete that's in some sense (that only a grizzled shrink might appreciate) sort of . . . cute. Almost cuddly.

The point is that those folks don't live in the same social reality that most humans inhabit. I'm somewhere near the cusp though which is kind of awkward. I've been very, very extensively socialized at least in terms of morality, ethics and the basic principle that you should try to avoid hurting people. But the fact of the matter is, even though it would never even occur to me to anything rude or offensive let alone worse, I don't always make the necessary associations, especially if I'm well past annoyed. So my track record is far from perfect. I just tell myself that they will no doubt survive so, you know, lighten up dude.

They tend to lack the ability to understand inherently empathy. A LOT of them learn to fake it well though. Which is why you often hear how charming psychopaths can be.

And yeah, they aren't inherently bad, but their behavior often can be negative. I would guess, like most, its a spectrum, and that there's even some psychopaths that can be legit empathetic just that they might not know how to express it in a healthy manner.

Certainly it sounds like it would be pretty tough. I say read up about that scientist, he started to become more mindful of his own behaviors. And while I don't think I'm psychopathic, I've certainly done some of the psychopathic behavior (I can put my foot in my mouth some by being callous, flippant, frivolous, or dismissive, and have on more than one occasion given a very bad first impression, but given time and getting to know me, my better qualities shine through), so its not like non-psychopaths aren't also capable of that stuff.

 

[mindless1]

Sociopaths are easier to identify due to lack of social skills, tend to speak without thinking first, have more of a conscience even if it only aligns with false beliefs. Psychopaths have a better than average set of social skills, hide their true nature in order to carry out plans to manipulate people and have little remorse except for their own losses. They are more likely to be predatory, though in their youth, sociopaths can be even more predatory.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Which, I believe my nephew was a psychopath. And was on track to becoming a very bad one, as in I wouldn't have been surprised to hear he was a murderer, maybe even a serial killer some day. He was getting to be very manipulative, and chronically lied about just about everything, including stuff that made absolutely no sense to lie about. He had started stealing stuff and it was escalating. Which, yeah, doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but I could just feel something different.

I'm not sure why/how but I seem to have some inherent ability to key in on such behavior and see through it. Its tough for me to even describe what it was like being around him, but after having listened to way too many murder podcasts and shows, there's just a feeling like he had that potential based on how the people that were around such talk about what it was like. It also helped me understand why such people are able to get away with it (and for so long), as he was constantly manipulating things often in small ways, and had some weird ability to charm people that made no sense to me because I could see through it so easily, but seemed to work on others.

The thing is, a lot of that stuff was being written off as him being a teenager or other, and often times he could gaslight the fuck out of people and make people catching him look like they were being crazy. It wasn't until later that I got told about a bunch of stuff that really confirmed what I'd been noticing. And I have a hunch there's a bunch of stuff that people didn't find out that would have been more alarming.

 

[MrSquished]

Half the country elected one as president then tried to reelect him. I start to question people when they openly support psychopaths as leaders after they show us exactly what they are.

 

[Torn Mind]

Which, I believe my nephew was a psychopath. And was on track to becoming a very bad one, as in I wouldn't have been surprised to hear he was a murderer, maybe even a serial killer some day. He was getting to be very manipulative, and chronically lied about just about everything, including stuff that made absolutely no sense to lie about. He had started stealing stuff and it was escalating. Which, yeah, doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but I could just feel something different.

I'm not sure why/how but I seem to have some inherent ability to key in on such behavior and see through it. Its tough for me to even describe what it was like being around him, but after having listened to way too many murder podcasts and shows, there's just a feeling like he had that potential based on how the people that were around such talk about what it was like. It also helped me understand why such people are able to get away with it (and for so long), as he was constantly manipulating things often in small ways, and had some weird ability to charm people that made no sense to me because I could see through it so easily, but seemed to work on others.

The thing is, a lot of that stuff was being written off as him being a teenager or other, and often times he could gaslight the fuck out of people and make people catching him look like they were being crazy. It wasn't until later that I got told about a bunch of stuff that really confirmed what I'd been noticing. And I have a hunch there's a bunch of stuff that people didn't find out that would have been more alarming.

I wouldn't be surprised if you have the genetics to have some psychopathic wiring in you too, but your mix didn't get the whole enchilada. Hence you can recognize it but not be one. Or epigenetics in the male line of your family.

Psychopaths understand "systems", can read between the lines, and "put things together" tactically. You nephew had the intuitive grasp of what many would require an entire career in law: that stealing is something that can be done up until you trigger the authorities to enforce it, and even then, excuses can diminish the punishment. That's IF the enforcement authorities can catch on.

Lawyers are probably the psychopaths and sociopaths no one pays attention to because they occupy prestigious posts nor do laypeople understand the de facto nature of their work. When someone makes it to being a judge, one can consider obtaining that as certification as being a successfully trained mercenary and Devil's Advocate. A judge is some who's probably prosecuted many people for a time and then defended people in private practice, and did get a good job getting results regardless of his personal feelings towards his client. Even lawyers with a conscience and physically "normal brains" will be so used to the ways of manipulating the system and making logical arguments that they are learned sociopaths or psychopaths.

Similar to lawyers, cops get well-trained in a similar manner. Even a career criminal may have both a psycho brain AND plenty of training from their parents in their childhood to put on their best face and manipulate others.