Psychology of relationships, this doesn't make sense.

[fyleow]

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[Syringer]

Yes, the idea is logically flawed, but logic doesn't apply to this stuff.

 

[ElFenix]

walk up to her, ask her to coffee like it doesn't mean anything to you

 

[fyleow]

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[Looney]

It doesn't make sense because you have the idea wrong. Rare or hard to obtain things themselves aren't highly desireable... it's how much value we place on the item is. However, rare or harder to obtain things are sometimes more valuable to us. If she values you as nothing, nomatter how much harder you make yourself harder to obtain, she's not going to care. Only if she values you, then it'll work. For example, if she liked you, then all of a sudden notices that some other women are interested in you, then you become more valuable to her and desire is higher.

 

[NutBucket]

There's your first problem; You're trying to apply logic to relationships w/ people of the opposite sex. It just doesn't work. Either someone likes you or they don't. If you have to resort to stupid mind games its prolly not worth your time or effort. My $0.02 for the night.

 

[fyleow]

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[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: fyleow

Originally posted by: NutBucket
There's your first problem; You're trying to apply logic to relationships w/ people of the opposite sex. It just doesn't work. Either someone likes you or they don't. If you have to resort to stupid mind games its prolly not worth your time or effort. My $0.02 for the night.

Well it's not really mind games. It's just the old saying "Some things are better left unsaid". Would a guy who placed this girl he liked on a pedestal and worshipped her daily like a goddess get her? Probably not, but if he acted differently and controlled his emotions he would probably have a better chance.

Well putting her on pedestal and controlling your emotions are two different things and acting like you don't want her is completely different. I agree you shouldn't put her on a pedestal but on the other hand you shouldn't act like you don't care about her either.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: fyleow

Originally posted by: NutBucket
There's your first problem; You're trying to apply logic to relationships w/ people of the opposite sex. It just doesn't work. Either someone likes you or they don't. If you have to resort to stupid mind games its prolly not worth your time or effort. My $0.02 for the night.

Well it's not really mind games. It's just the old saying "Some things are better left unsaid". Would a guy who placed this girl he liked on a pedestal and worshipped her daily like a goddess get her? Probably not, but if he acted differently and controlled his emotions he would probably have a better chance.

Obviously you never dated before.

Girls love attention and being pampered. Do you know why girls like flowers? It's not because of the flowers. It's not even because you remembered the occassion. It's because they love the attention they get when they get the flowers in front of their other girl friends (or hell, even in public to strangers, they love that). So if you ever send a girl flowers, make sure it's to work or some other public place where others see them receiving the flowers... or that they need to carry it throughout the day. Normally i would hate the idea of spending $50 on something that's going to die in a few days anyways... but knowing how much girl likes them, and what it means to them, they're worth every penny.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: fyleow

Originally posted by: NutBucket
There's your first problem; You're trying to apply logic to relationships w/ people of the opposite sex. It just doesn't work. Either someone likes you or they don't. If you have to resort to stupid mind games its prolly not worth your time or effort. My $0.02 for the night.

Well it's not really mind games. It's just the old saying "Some things are better left unsaid". Would a guy who placed this girl he liked on a pedestal and worshipped her daily like a goddess get her? Probably not, but if he acted differently and controlled his emotions he would probably have a better chance.

Obviously you never dated before.

Girls love attention and being pampered. Do you know why girls like flowers? It's not because of the flowers. It's not even because you remembered the occassion. It's because they love the attention they get when they get the flowers in front of their other girl friends (or hell, even in public to strangers, they love that). So if you ever send a girl flowers, make sure it's to work or some other public place where others see them receiving the flowers... or that they need to carry it throughout the day. Normally i would hate the idea of spending $50 on something that's going to die in a few days anyways... but knowing how much girl likes them, and what it means to them, they're worth every penny.

Well stated

 

[Looney]

There's also a difference between showing attention to a girl and showing desperation. Show a girl you like them. Make comments on their hair, eyes, figure, dress, etc. They LOVE to hear that stuff.

 

[freakflag]

Originally posted by: fyleow

Originally posted by: NutBucket
There's your first problem; You're trying to apply logic to relationships w/ people of the opposite sex. It just doesn't work. Either someone likes you or they don't. If you have to resort to stupid mind games its prolly not worth your time or effort. My $0.02 for the night.

Well it's not really mind games. It's just the old saying "Some things are better left unsaid". Would a guy who placed this girl he liked on a pedestal and worshipped her daily like a goddess get her? Probably not, but if he acted differently and controlled his emotions he would probably have a better chance.

No. I reiterate...no. Women are not objects of worship no matter how much you have been brainwashed to believe so. They are human beings not so very different from yourself. Treat them with respect as an equal in all regards and let nature take it's course.

Remember, attraction is 99% chemical and 1% intangible and you can't control an intangible.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: fyleow
Would a guy who placed this girl he liked on a pedestal and worshipped her daily like a goddess get her? Probably not, but if he acted differently and controlled his emotions he would probably have a better chance.

That's a wee bit different from being desireous of a relationship. It's not healthy to put anything up on a pedestal like that and there is such a thing as coming on too strong. Even if you like someone initially, if they are clingy or if they keep telling you that they don't deserve you then you will start to believe that they are right and that they don't deserve you.

I think that the problem is that you are not distinguishing among degrees of desire. It is very possible for one to be desireous of a relationship with another person without said desire becoming an overriding objective. I know it seems as though I am just playing with semantics here, but I'm not. There are very subtle differences in the manner in which one may desire something as well as differences in the importance of the desire. Approaching a relationship with the idea that you are failing if you do not establish something will make you come off as desperate. One needs to learn to approach a relationship as a learning experience. The attitude should be, "I would like the outcome to be thus, but it will be interesting to see what happens nonetheless". At least, so goes my present theory.

ZV

 

[fyleow]

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[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: fyleow
what draws the line between desperation and attention?

If the most important thing is not getting shot down, then it is desperation. If you can be happy with the way things played out regardless of the outcome, it is attention.

ZV

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: fyleow

Originally posted by: Moralpanic
There's also a difference between showing attention to a girl and showing desperation. Show a girl you like them. Make comments on their hair, eyes, figure, dress, etc. They LOVE to hear that stuff.

Haha your observation is correct, I have not dated before

That's the part that confuses me most though, sometimes I compliment but what draws the line between desperation and attention?

By making it casual. Don't follow her around and do it... but make it casual, and sincere! As you approach the cash register, and you like her eyes... comment on that.

EDIT: it doesn't even need to be a comment. A smile when she looks at you. Or an extra second or two stare at the eyes (don't ogle her! that'll freak her out). Just something small and casual that shows you find her attractive.

 

[Looney]

Just throw out what you know about girls (according to your first post)... and do what's common sense. What's common sense? How you would like to be treated. I don't know about you, but a girl definitely has my attention if she says nice things about me... and i'm a guy, and i like that sort of attention. The girls that end up with guys like in your first post aren't 'normal'.... they're normally caught up in a bad cycle because it's all they know, all their familiar with, or that's the type of guy that are attracted to her. But i guarantee you, most girls will love to be treated great and given attention to.

 

[SXMP]

"walk up to her, ask her to coffee like it doesn't mean anything to you"

-in the context it was given, this is the worst advice I have ever heard. Let me delve a little deeper here since this is a thread about the "<FONT face=Verdana size=1>Psychology of relationships".
</FONT>
IF YOU HAVE TO PUT UP A FRONT, OR ACT DIFFERENT THAN NORMAL AROUND A GIRL, DONT EVEN BOTHER! not if your looking for a meaningful relationship at least. I have found through personal experiance and that of my friends who come to me for advice that the relationships that truly work are the ones that both people have no trouble talking to each other, nor did they have to resort to ridiculous facades just to get the others attention/approval. now if you are looking for some *ahem,cough* fun, and you have no moral problems with that, then do whatever it takes =) (personally I dont agree with that at all though, just my 2cents)

All said, you're ONLY screwed if you do and screwed if you don't if you look at it that way. Girls are human beings just like you. Its amazing how many applications the golden rule has, but think about it from your shoes: would you want a possible girl to think about you: "well damn, im screwed if i talk to him, and im screwed if I dont". NO thats not what you want, (or at least most likely =) What you want is her to come up to you and talk to you honestly, to make you feel important in that exact moment. You can't worry about future expectations or those which you might have, the here and now in this situation is the most important, and you have to remember EXACTLY what it is that is important when you see the girl. You cannot allow yourself to fall into the trap that society has so neatly and conviently laid out for you to walk into, rather you must be natural and yourself, not TRYING to purposely avoid the trap. Its all a state of being.
-example: in theater, its not good enough to simply want to perform well...if thats your mindset, youll never be a great actor... rather you must have the wants and desires of your character, the "great acting" will naturally then fall into place (with granted a few other tweaks such as playing to all audiences, etc.)

****the same concept applies to women, people in general, sociology, theology (yeah it definatley does), and just about anything where theres human interaction (i guess that would cover the gamit of sociology though =) oh well its late.

just my 2 cents,
please pardon the horrendous spelling and grammatical errors, i fervently wrote this out late at night.

 

[fyleow]

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[thirtythree]

Originally posted by: fyleow
So if you don't tell her that you like her or shower her with attention then how are things going to hit off?!

When I first saw that I thought it said "if you don't tell her that you like her or shower with her .. "

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: fyleow

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: fyleow
what draws the line between desperation and attention?

If the most important thing is not getting shot down, then it is desperation. If you can be happy with the way things played out regardless of the outcome, it is attention.

ZV

That is a good rule to live by, to accept the outcome of the situation and just move on but honestly not many people can do that. A lot of unwanted emotions like anger, jealousy etc are stemed from the fact that things don't turn out the way we want them to. If we could accept reality then life would be so much better...

I don't think that anybody can reasonably say they won't be a little disappointed if they were shot down but I suppose if it's not the only important thing then it would be fine. It's difficult sometimes, but I guess that's life. *sigh*

Of course people would be disappointed! But look at it this way... if you walk into a coffee shop and there she is.. and you do nothing, and walk out. What have you lost? An opportunity.

If you walk into the coffee shop and talk to her, and you get shot down... and walk out of the coffee shop. What have you lost? Absolutely nothing. It's exactly the same as in the first example... well, except you lost the fantasy. But do you want to live in fantasy all your life?

EDIT: just remember, when you get shot down... there's no score that's kept on your forehead for other women to see. You have NOTHING to lose.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: fyleow
That is a good rule to live by, to accept the outcome of the situation and just move on but honestly not many people can do that. A lot of unwanted emotions like anger, jealousy etc are stemed from the fact that things don't turn out the way we want them to. If we could accept reality then life would be so much better...

I don't think that anybody can reasonably say they won't be a little disappointed if they were shot down but I suppose if it's not the only important thing then it would be fine. It's difficult sometimes, but I guess that's life. *sigh*

That's another problem. By categorizing anger, and jealousy (among others) as "unwanted", people tend to play those emotions down. They don't stop to really look at them and find the root causes, instead they try to cover up the symptopms. It's an almost univeral truism among physicians that one has to treat the illness and not the symptoms. In the same way, it is better to pry into those "unwanted" emotions and look for the root causes. An unexpected outcome doesn't cause the anger or the jealousy, rather, it ecourages anger and jealousy that we already have to manifest itself. If one disowns those feelings, then one loses the ability to understand them.

It's not about not being disappointed so much as it is about realising that disappointment is a part of life that cannot be avoided and understanding that disappointment is not the gigantic setback that we often are inclined to perceive it as.

ZV

 

[fyleow]

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[Looney]

Originally posted by: fyleow
Very good advice guys, thanks.

The coffee shop example is a good one, however let's change the situation a little. Suppose that this is already a friend. That eliminates the problem of being yourself because you should be yourself around friends (hopefully). I hate to turn this into YAGT but assuming that I've already brought up the idea once, that I have feelings for her, and was shot down (I was coming on too strongly, I'm sure) how do I "try again?"

All time spent together would just be viewed as something normal, since that's what friends do. In a stranger type situation, such as the coffee house, it's a little different. There is a clear motive here, you want to get to know a stranger better. It's easier to move things right along to a relationship than get "stuck" in the middle of a friendship.

Then this is easy. Find out what her ideal man is. If her ideal man is somebody big and strong... then she's looking for somebody who can give her a protective feeling. If you can be around here and give her that feeling, then you can become that man. If her ideal man is rich, then she likes to be pampered and cared for. If you can pamper her and care for her, you'll be that much more attractive to her. If her ideal man is a gorgeous Brad Pitt, then she wants a trophy... if you can make her feel like you're a trophy for her to show off to her friends, you'll have a good shot at her. Etc. Just find out what she wants or likes in a man, and try to offer her that.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: fyleow
Psychologically things that are rare or hard to obtain have a higher level of desirability. So the thing that a lot of people say "Ignore her and she will come crawling back to you" does make sense. If you hand your heart/love/affection on a silver platter and she doesn't have to work for it then she is not going to want it. So if you don't tell her that you like her or shower her with attention then how are things going to hit off?! I mean you're kinda screwed if you don't and screwed if you do.

Part of your problem is that she's already a friend, which means that she's already got you categorized into a pigeonhole and she sees you in a certain way, in that "friend mode". At this point, when you start showering her with your heart/love/affection, your cause is already lost. Several points:

She needs to be at least somewhat attracted by your physical appearance and by your personality.
You need to effortlessly show self-confidence.
You need to show her that you're attracted to her, mentally and physically. Not tell her, show her.
You need to flirt with her, to get her to see you as more than a friend.

It is not easy to go from being her friend to being her boyfriend. In some cases, however, it is possible. Good luck.