PSU voltage rail discussion

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: beray

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1

I have failed to see anyone who has actually load tested a Corsair power supply say that it isn't excellent.

That's because practically all "anyone" failed to recognize that 99.99999% of PSUs on the market are "12V single-rail" PSUs.

Since they don't actually know about "12V single-rail" PSUs except aping the words, they failed to test for the inherent weakness of single-rail PSU design architecture assuming they even knew what that was.

"12V single-rail" PSU designs are easily recognizable by reading a literate PSU label like THIS ONE

The linked literate label indicated:

3.3V and 5V on one rail.
all 12V on one rail.
-12 and 5Vsb on one rail.

There is a standard test for single-rail architecture weakness and it is called a cross-regulation test.

For example: 3.3V and 5V on one rail meant 3.3V can cause cross-regulation failure in 5V and vice-versa.

In multi-rail, each one of the rails are independent from the others thus no cross-regulation problem.

the Corsair are independently regulated...there is a rectifier for the 3.33 V and a rectifier for the 5V...

I am assuming you are talking about that Epsilon with

12V on a single rail as the fact that it is a single rail broken into multiple rails with OCP circuitry.

Well how many PSUs out there do you see with TRUE multi-rail 12V rails?

How many of those are under 800 Watts?

Your argument is that these PSUs will fall apart with a crossload. I have seen reviews that crossload these independently regulated PSUs with a single transformer for the 12V and a single transformer for the 3.33V and 5V and most of them are rock solid in voltage regulation (less than 2% variation on any rail with either a heavy 3.33V and 5V load and light 12V load and with a heavy 12V load and light 3.33v and light 5v load) and ripple suppression.


I realize this thread was broken off from another to help keep the other thread on topic, but I see it ending up as nothing more than a pissing contest. At least when terms like "idiot" and "stupidity" are used. Thread closed.

jonnyGURU
Power Supplies moderator

 

[Quiksilver]

You know he's not going to answer you properly right? Let alone admit he is wrong to judge. I mean, It was cause of me and him we had that thread cleaned up cause I had tried to correct him before. So good luck discussing this with him.

 

[HOOfan 1]

If it gets ugly then I will just bow out.....I think I know now that it will go nowhere, so maybe I will just forget about it already.

 

[beray]

@HOOfan 1

Your argument is that these PSUs will fall apart with a crossload. I have seen reviews that crossload these independently regulated PSUs with a single transformer for the 12V and a single transformer for the 3.33V and 5V and most of them are rock solid in voltage regulation (less than 2% variation on any rail with either a heavy 3.33V and 5V load and light 12V load and with a heavy 12V load and light 3.33v and light 5v load) and ripple suppression.

Yes, there are experts be stupid enough to test cross-regulation between 3.3V and 5V rail against 12V rail. Even though they are independent separate rails, not susceptible to cross-regulation failure from each other.

The real experts would do 3.3V against 5V and vice-versa as they are both on one single rail and would have cross-regulation problem with each other.

The real experts would do 12V against other 12V as they are all on one single rail and would have cross-regulation problem with each other.

single-rails are susceptible to cross-regulation, multi-rails don't as they are "independent rails/supplies".

---------------------------------------------------

Find a real native English speaking PSU expert for your discussion...

1 - I'm not a PSU expert, my PSU skill is JOE AVERAGE, my specialty is realtime graphic hardware. I do PSU when needed in my hardware requirement though graphic hardware do have a bad habit of extreme power requirement, I don't do PSU for a living.

2 - I achieved my Engrish skill with a $30 3000-word dictionary, you can't really do much with 1-cent-per-word Engrish skill. But I'm doing OK with what little I'd invested, I did have more use for my 1-cent-per-word Engrish than some English natives with Master degree in English.

3 - There're know nothing idiot experts wanting everything "factually corrected" to below grade school ignorance and stupidity.

4 - PSU experts don't read PSU reviews for the technical wizardry contents.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: beray

The real experts would do 3.3V against 5V and vice-versa as they are both on one single rail and would have cross-regulation problem with each other.

The real experts would do 12V against other 12V as they are all on one single rail and would have cross-regulation problem with each other.

single-rails are susceptible to cross-regulation, multi-rails don't as they are "independent rails/supplies".

Remember that JonnyGURU review I posted yesterday, and you further began mocking me about how you have 10000's of reviews which claim to be internet experts; then further called them "brainless idiots"? They do crossload-test between 3.3V & 5V rails and have practically no load on the 12V rail.

How do you expect a Single 12V rail PSU to test Dual 12V rails now?

But... but... according to yourself 99.9999% of all PSU's on the market are single-rail PSU's. You also claimed in that other thread that the Corsair VX series was superior to the Corsair HX series. The VX series are all single rails PSU's while the HX series are all Dual 12V rail PSU's.

If your not an expert here, you shouldn't be acting like you know so much about PSU's. You keep contradicting yourself.

 

[beray]

Learn to read english, it's not really hard especially if you're a native born speaker. Let me spell it out for you...

Corsair 520HX PSUs are 12V single-rail. <-- Inherent 3.3V and 5V single-rail design weakness.
Corsair 550VX PSUs are 12V single-rail. <-- 3.3V and 5V single-rail improved over the old HX.

Originally posted by: Quiksilver
Remember that JonnyGURU review I posted yesterday, and you further began mocking me about how you have 10000's of reviews which claim to be internet experts; then further called them "brainless idiots"? They do crossload-test between 3.3V & 5V rails and have practically no load on the 12V rail.

How do you expect a Single 12V rail PSU to test Dual 12V rails now?

But... but... according to yourself 99.9999% of all PSU's on the market are single-rail PSU's. You also claimed in that other thread that the Corsair VX series was superior to the Corsair HX series. The VX series are all single rails PSU's while the HX series are all Dual 12V rail PSU's.

If your not an expert here, you shouldn't be acting like you know so much about PSU's. You keep contradicting yourself.

Ha ha... Even PSU JOE AVERAGE don't read PSU reviews, real PSU experts don't.

nVIDIA's engineers definitely don't read anandtech graphic reviews for superior graphic technical references or technical finer points of their expertise.

 

[Quiksilver]

Alright, I'll admit I made the mistake of taking the HX series to be non-single rail because the internals looked separate at first glance, but I looked again; they do appear to be a single rail. Still the VX & HX series still perform the same, even during 3.3V and & 5V cross-load testing; despite being regulated differently. I'm still curious, sames you believe otherwise, do you have any proof showing your opinion to be correct or is it just your opinion?

 

[beray]

Originally posted by: Quiksilver
Alright, I'll admit I made the mistake of taking the HX series to be non-single rail because the internals looked separate at first glance, but I looked again; they do appear to be a single rail. Still the VX & HX series still perform the same, even during 3.3V and & 5V cross-load testing; despite being regulated differently. I'm still curious, sames you believe otherwise, do you have any proof showing your opinion to be correct or is it just your opinion?

There're multiple ways to do this. I don't have much use for belief nor opinions, but you seemed to.

Would "impressive experience" do it for you? It worked on others for another "impressive experience" expert in an older 16-phase power supply thread.

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: Quiksilver
Alright, I'll admit I made the mistake of taking the HX series to be non-single rail because the internals looked separate at first glance, but I looked again; they do appear to be a single rail. Still the VX & HX series still perform the same, even during 3.3V and & 5V cross-load testing; despite being regulated differently. I'm still curious, sames you believe otherwise, do you have any proof showing your opinion to be correct or is it just your opinion?

Quick..

It does not help that the Early HX Products had side panel Stickers that appeared to be Dual Rail when in fact the internals were single rail.

There are a few threads floating about where Yellowbeard settles the debate.