psu suggestions for q6000 and 8800 gts

[daninfamous]

Im on a huge budget but I want a q6600 and a 8800gts 320mb (not gtx)

suggestions please.

 

[Ika]

Any PSU from a reputable manufacturer that has more than 400 watts will be enough for you.

Personally I would recommend a Corsair 520HX, but that might be a little costly (although it is 1) modular, 2) a GREAT PSU). Maybe a Fortron Source would suit you better.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: daninfamous
Im on a huge budget but I want a q6600 and a 8800gts 320mb (not gtx)

suggestions please.

Anything around 300W would be plenty.

Currently running my Acer E700 computer:

Acer's stock 300W PSU runs the following:
1. Q6600
2. nVidia 8800GTS/320
3. 4 X 500GB HDD
4. 4 x 1GB memory
5. Hauppauge PVR-500 dual-tv tuner
6. DVDRW

...works great....

 

[John]

Originally posted by: dclive
Anything around 300W would be plenty.

Please stop posting that nonsense. Your particular rig is pulling 250W+ under a gaming load which puts an enormous load on the psu. Why do you insist on recommending the bare min. all of the time? There is nothing "plenty" about loading up a psu.

Nobody is disputing the fact that a quality low wattage psu can run high end equipment, but the fact of the matter is that ideally you want to stay in a 40-70% load range to reduce noise, heat output, and maintain high efficiency levels. A quality Antec EarthWatts 430W would be "plenty" for the OP's rig, and it's only $45 AR. If he's looking for a little more headroom for SLI, etc. then there are other high quality options available that won't break his wallet.

 

[dclive]

Why is it nonsense to recommend what is clearly within the spec of the power supply? At no point am I suggesting he run anything out of spec. As long as it's in spec, what is the exact problem you believe he'll run into?

Can you point to engineering information (not an enthusiasts web page) that suggests your 40-70% number? Where did you get it?

 

[John]

While it is possible to run a quality psu @ max DC output 24/7 it is not recommended for the reasons I mentioned above. You'll also experience a derating curve since the ambient temps will increase as the psu, cpu, and video card(s) heat up. Corsair, Enermax, OCZ, and other mfg's will support this claim as well.

Corsair Power Guy
This is the efficiency curve of the HX series, which is somewhat common for 80+ rated PSUs. The idea is that you want to be at that peak or near it as much as possible. So yes, you could be at 20% or 80%, but the problem with being very close to max load on a PSU is that it stresses components. For maximum lifespan, matching a 40-70% load is the best efficiency and will allow the PSU to last a bit longer.

Enermax Support
The bottom line is you don't want to max out your PSU because this will affect your lifetime of the PSU. If your system require 300W then, I would go with a 500W PSU, in this case your max usage only consume about 60% of the PSU. If on the other hand you use a 400W, then your max usage will consume about 75% of the PSU. The best place to be at is about 50 to 60% of max power usage. Remember also that as your PSU get closer to the max usage, efficiency and stability goes down a bit.

You'll rarely see me recommending high wattage psu's (when they aren't required), and you'll never see me recommending the bare minimum. There is a happy medium, and it doesn't take a lot of cash to get there. If people can afford to buy current gen cpu's and video cards, then they can afford a quality and efficient psu with ample headroom.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: John
While it is possible to run a quality psu @ max DC output 24/7 it is not recommended for the reasons I mentioned above. You'll also experience a derating curve since the ambient temps will increase as the psu, cpu, and video card(s) heat up. Corsair, Enermax, OCZ, and other mfg's will support this claim as well.

Corsair Power Guy
This is the efficiency curve of the HX series, which is somewhat common for 80+ rated PSUs. The idea is that you want to be at that peak or near it as much as possible. So yes, you could be at 20% or 80%, but the problem with being very close to max load on a PSU is that it stresses components. For maximum lifespan, matching a 40-70% load is the best efficiency and will allow the PSU to last a bit longer.

Enermax Support
The bottom line is you don't want to max out your PSU because this will affect your lifetime of the PSU. If your system require 300W then, I would go with a 500W PSU, in this case your max usage only consume about 60% of the PSU. If on the other hand you use a 400W, then your max usage will consume about 75% of the PSU. The best place to be at is about 50 to 60% of max power usage. Remember also that as your PSU get closer to the max usage, efficiency and stability goes down a bit.

You'll rarely see me recommending high wattage psu's (when they aren't required), and you'll never see me recommending the bare minimum. There is a happy medium, and it doesn't take a lot of cash to get there. If people can afford to buy current gen cpu's and video cards, then they can afford a quality and efficient psu with ample headroom.

You're going to the marketing department of manufacturers for PSU information. Of course they're going to tell you what they want you to hear. Again, do you have any engineering information that says there's a concrete reason why you shouldn't run a PSU at a value 10 to 20 percent under its' specifications? Or at or around its' specifications?

I don't suggest that one should get a tiny PSU, but for the requirements that are typically posted here, 300W is easily and typically enough or much more than enough.

It's interesting that Kill-A-Watt says a 17" LCD laptop with nVidia 7600 uses about 50W under load, and an iMac with 20" LCD and Radeon 1600 uses about 100W. When I reboot the Q6600 Acer sometime, I plug the Kill-A-Watt in place and see what it actually uses.

You mention "lifetime of the PSU", which to me sounds a lot like worrying about the lifetime of a CPU when overclocking (with the critical difference that we aren't running these PSUs out of spec!) - CPU lifetimes are so long that "shortening the lifetime" with overclocking just isn't important or significant - it's still going to last the entire time you own it plus 10 years.

 

[dclive]

As another data point, Dell itself sells 8800GTX 9200s with Q6600s with 375W PSUs. Are they wrong to do this?

 

[Puffnstuff]

Stop looking at wattage and look at amp draw on the rails. The 12v rail shoulders the brunt of the load on a modern pc so a healthy amp rating on it is very important. If there's more than one 12v rail then each rail should be able to handle around 20a. On a quality ps you'll see good amp ratings on lower wattage ps's. I run what I run because I don't want the ps to be an issue at all. My draw is only 216 watts right now and my ps is rated at 850w leaving me plenty of room to grow.

 

[John]

Originally posted by: dclive
You're going to the marketing department of manufacturers for PSU information. Of course they're going to tell you what they want you to hear. Again, do you have any engineering information that says there's a concrete reason why you shouldn't run a PSU at a value 10 to 20 percent under its' specifications? Or at or around its' specifications?

Since when is support the marketing department? Regardless, it doesn't matter what info anyone posts, you simply disregard like you've done in the past. jonnyGURU and other reputable folks would tell you that loading up a psu near max DC output (for an extended period of time) is not recommended. Why recommend a bare min. psu when something with a little more headroom is only a few bucks more?

Take a look at the label on your Acer's LiteOn psu to get a grasp on derating. 300W max DC Output @ 25C & 270W @ 50C. The ambient temp in your case is above 25C.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

It is very difficult to pull more than 300 watts from any single GPU rig. Most will draw about 270 watts will all bells and whistles at 100% speed. If the case has good air flow (front and rear 120 mm fans), then a quality PSU rated at 300 watts (270 watts @ 12V rail with 50C ambient) would be more than adequate.

Efficiency will decrease with temperature, but if the PSU can deliver the rated VA at 50C ambient, then there is no reason to go with a bigger unit.

In summary, look for a PSU from a reputable manufacturer with at least 24A at the 12V rails. The power output should be continuous up to 50C ambient.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: John

Originally posted by: dclive
You're going to the marketing department of manufacturers for PSU information. Of course they're going to tell you what they want you to hear. Again, do you have any engineering information that says there's a concrete reason why you shouldn't run a PSU at a value 10 to 20 percent under its' specifications? Or at or around its' specifications?

Since when is support the marketing department?

(Speaking of, assumedly, the support portion of a product website) Since forever. The web site is a marketing site designed to show off the productline and to get you to buy their products.

Regardless, it doesn't matter what info anyone posts, you simply disregard like you've done in the past.

I've not seen anyone post anything other than marketing information from websites and opinions. I remember some websites not so long ago that told people to buy PSUs hundreds of watts over what they needed for no reason. Why would I want to read marketing information? I'm not asking for much - just a reason why one should fear running a PSU fully within manufacturer specifications...that's all I ask...

jonnyGURU and other reputable folks would tell you that loading up a psu near max DC output (for an extended period of time) is not recommended. Why recommend a bare min. psu when something with a little more headroom is only a few bucks more?

Sure, for someone buying new, that's fine advice - spend a few more if they think they'll really stress out a 300W PSU. Most people won't, as Anandtech's own tests show, though, so why spend the extra $?

Take a look at the label on your Acer's LiteOn psu to get a grasp on derating. 300W max DC Output @ 25C & 270W @ 50C. The ambient temp in your case is above 25C.

This is true. Stay tuned next time I power-cycle it so I can see what the Kill-A-Watt gizmo says.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: dclive
As another data point, Dell itself sells 8800GTX 9200s with Q6600s with 375W PSUs. Are they wrong to do this?

No they are not.. because inspite of the fact that they own a major portion of a lower mid-range PSU company, they spec/use Lite-On built power supplies in their desktops.

Lite-On can provide units that are very close to Etasis, Zippy/Emacs or Delta in build quality. That is, they can offer full output 24/7 at full operating temp w/o any reduction in output or instability for a very long time. Prolly past the 3~5 year warranty.

Do some research here please. http://www.badcaps.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=32
Badcaps is NOT an enthusiast's site, these guys repair/test at the componet level. You must register to view attachments.

Fairly soon jonnyGURU should be doing his full output testing of PSUs that come bundled with cases...should make for a great light show.
Go over to his site and read what he offers about the fall off of output as temps rise in mid-range PSUs.
And please be posting here when these guys that take your 300W advice come back with lock-up issues.
A 300W Zippy/Emacs, Etasis, Delta or Lite-On is a far cry from any 300W unit you recommend.

NOTE: Delta PSUs will be retail within the next year. Good stuff!

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
A 300W Zippy/Emacs, Etasis, Delta or Lite-On is a far cry from any 300W unit you recommend.

Interesting. You're aware of what brand I have in the $700 quad-core Acer, right?

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
No they are not.. because inspite of the fact that they own a major portion of a lower mid-range PSU company, they spec/use Lite-On built power supplies in their desktops.

Lite-On can provide units that are very close to Etasis, Zippy/Emacs or Delta in build quality. That is, they can offer full output 24/7 at full operating temp w/o any reduction in output or instability for a very long time. Prolly past the 3~5 year warranty.

This might be helpful, too, as another data point:

(Delta PSU, not Lite-On, from Dell in this reviewer's 9200)

http://www.hardware.info/en-US...t/Dell_Dimension_9200/

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

I know the older Lite-On units were near bullet proof, I have no idea how long this Acer Lite-On will live. Build spec can change when Dell says they want it cheaper or knock-off Chinese capacitors find their way into the mix. I leave that stuff to the mind readers and those that can see through lead.
As far as derating goes, many of us do not work/live in an air conditioned clean room. My comp office can reach 40C during the peak of Summer. So what! A fan gets turned on and the 400W Zippy provides all the rig needs w/o a hick-up.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
No they are not.. because inspite of the fact that they own a major portion of a lower mid-range PSU company, they spec/use Lite-On built power supplies in their desktops.

Lite-On can provide units that are very close to Etasis, Zippy/Emacs or Delta in build quality. That is, they can offer full output 24/7 at full operating temp w/o any reduction in output or instability for a very long time. Prolly past the 3~5 year warranty.

This might be helpful, too, as another data point:

(Delta PSU, not Lite-On, from Dell in this reviewer's 9200)

http://www.hardware.info/en-US...t/Dell_Dimension_9200/

A 375W Delta would be a much better unit than any Lite-On in that range. imho.

 

[McGyver]

i just realized that this guy is building the same system as i do. but to cut right to the chase, guys, stop arguing. please provide an example of PSU you would get. a) sub-80 bux b) 80<price<110

thank you.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: McGyver
i just realized that this guy is building the same system as i do. but to cut right to the chase, guys, stop arguing. please provide an example of PSU you would get. a) sub-80 bux b) 80<price<110

thank you.

@ewiz.com...Enhance ENP-5150GH 500W for about $72 w/free shipping. Good unit that is 80Plus certed. It has been reviewed very well. My Sister's comp runs 24/7 folding, with an ENP-5140GH 400W unit. Good stuff!

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

NOTE: Why is the PSU an after thought when you guys can spend $600++ on a mainboard, proc and VGA card. MMmmm?
After all the PSU is the single most important piece of hardware inside the case. Fully 30% of all comp issues are PSU related.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You would think that the PSU would be one of the first things that is thought about when building a new rigg....and I am not talking about how much to spend on the PSU..

The PSU is essentially the guts of your computer!!

 

[mxnerd]

I build PCs myself. For the past few years, I finally realize and admitted that PSU IS THE GUTS! Spend more money on PSU will be a time & life saver if you build your own PC!

I have spend way too much time on trouble shooting various problems, and all points to not enough juice from PSU.

300W or 350W is defenitely not enough for today's standard, unless you don't add on a lot of your own HDs and power hungry graphics cards.

Buy 80 plus certified PSU if you can, which guarantee 80% efficiency under any load and you will be much happier in the long run.

I learned the experience the hard way, I hope you can avoid it.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: mxnerd
I build PCs myself. For the past few years, I finally realize and admitted that PSU IS THE GUTS! Spend more money on PSU will be a time & life saver if you build your own PC!

I have spend way too much time on trouble shooting various problems, and all points to not enough juice from PSU.

300W or 350W is defenitely not enough for today's standard, unless you don't add on a lot of your own HDs and power hungry graphics cards.

Buy 80 plus certified PSU if you can, which guarantee 80% efficiency under any load and you will be much happier in the long run.

I learned the experience the hard way, I hope you can avoid it.

But understand that bcause a PSU is 80+ crtified that certification is NOt adressing quality and workmanship!!

This I would rather have a well built quality PSU that at best is ovr 70% rather than a PSU that is 80+ certified that I will need to RMA in 6 months to a year down the road!!

Peace!!

 

[mxnerd]

Do you have bad experience with 80+ certified that gone bad? Can you be more specific which brand and model?

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: mxnerd
Do you have bad experience with 80+ certified that gone bad? Can you be more specific which brand and model?

My understanding is the new 80+ rating is just a (new marketing-oriented) mathematical model that says it passes X amount of energy when you put Y amount of energy into the plug.

It has no necessary relationship with quality.