PSU for GTX 460

[nkzuz]

Hi there. I want to get a GTX 460, a MSI N460GTX CYCLONE OC 1GB, more specifically.

I have a 500W CoolerMaster PSU (specs). Would that be enough?

It claims to have 18A + 18A on 12V. This page says the card requires 24A on the 12V rail, so I'd be ok? But the manual I found at MSI's website says "Minimum 450W or greater system power supply (with a minimum 12V current rating of 38A) is recommended" - then I'm not ok.

Do I need a bigger PSU? Thanks a lot.


Moved to PSU forum.

Super Moderator BFG10K

 

[Rifter]

are you going to overclock it? whats the rest of your PC look like?

 

[toyota]

yeah that psu has a combined 12v amp rating of 30 which is 360 watts. it will probably be enough but when asking for any type of hardware advice you need to list your other specs. the psu has to power the entire pc so those other specs are important.

 

[nyker96]

yes it will work, I got a 500W enhance 5150gh with 18A, 18A I believe just like yours, my whole setup 460 oc to 869core+2178mem w/ x4 620@3,25 even using OCCT PSU burn reaches just about 300W max at the wall. A 500W 80+ can take up to 600W at the wall. I'd say unless you got a SLI going, it'll be more than fine.

 

[nkzuz]

Rest of the PC is (yeah, a little old now, but it works ok and I don't have much money):
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz (not overclocked)
4 GB DDR2 800 (2x2GB)
Intel DP965LT motherboard
250 GB WD HDD
1 TB WD Green HDD
1 DVD-R drive
Old video card: Asus 7600GT 256 MB

According to my APC UPS, it's using ~140W total when idle, ~180W max load (and that's including my 20" LCD monitor).

Thanks.

 

[toyota]

holy crap even an 8600gt would be twice as fast your card in modern games. I would probably go with a gts450 or at least the cheapest gtx460 768mb you can find. your cpu will noticeably limit any gtx460 level card especially at 1680. and I am guessing 1680 since you have a 20 inch lcd?

 

[nkzuz]

Heh. Yeah, 1680x1050. I might upgrade the PC next year, but if I get a new video card now, I'll keep it for a few years (I'll put it in the new PC). My main concern is whether or not it will work with my current PSU. Otherwise I'll have to investigate what is the best card it can handle. Thanks a lot for your advice.

 

[Rifter]

It should be ok just dont go crazy with the overclocking. as mentioned you really need a new CPU to make a modern GPU shine.

 

[nkzuz]

Would a socket 775 quad core Intel help? (So I don't have to replace the motherboard). I might upgrade that next. I won't overclock anything now. So, should I just disregard the "minimum 12V current rating of 38A" mentioned in the manual?

 

[toyota]

Would a socket 775 quad core Intel help? (So I don't have to replace the motherboard). I might upgrade that next. I won't overclock anything now. So, should I just disregard the "minimum 12V current rating of 38A" mentioned in the manual?

well a quad upgrade would be okay if you can get a good deal on one. I would probably get the cheapest gtx460 768mb you can find and oc your cpu a bit. if you are not going to oc your cpu then I would probably get a gts450. if you dont upgrade your pc for a long time then there will be much faster cards for the same amount of money at that time. you have stuck with your 7600gt so long that you have actually missed out on playing many games. in other words it makes sense to get a card that matches your system and then upgrade when it no longer meets your needs and/or you upgrade other components. of course there are always exceptions to this such as getting a really good deal or having concrete plans for a system upgrade.

 

[andrei3333]

im not sure about the PSU req, but i think it should be fine , especially since you dont plan to OC the video card...

I also recommend going one step down from the 460 to whatever the next step down is, you will otherwise be wasting money.

I also believe you can easily OC that CPU to somewhere near 2.8 GHz maybe even 3.0 GHz, that family of processors was able to increase clocks without too much effort, mind you that you would need an upgraded fan to cool it better, but then again you dont want to OC...

 

[nkzuz]

Hmm, might look at the GTS450 then, I'm not sure when I'll be able to upgrade the rest of the PC. The store that has the GTX460 doesn't have the GTS450, I'll have to look elsewhere. Thanks for the advice.

 

[rockyjohn]

I think you should do one nice video card only upgrade now and then start saving for a new system or a combo upgrade of mobo, cpu, & memory.

About how much graphics card will be constrained by CPU, you should read this THG article about balanced systems:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-balanced-platform,2469.html

Unfortunately it is a year old so it does not have the latest cards - you will have to interpolate. And it does not show results for the e6600 but does for the e6300 and e8400 , so here to you will need to interpolate. But you can easily see on the charts how much of an increase in performance was realized for graphics card improvements.

I think you should get the GX 460 if you can afford it as it would be a better card to keep awhile when you upgrade your other components. While a GTS 450 would be a good card now, I think after you upgrade, whenever that is, you will find it the weak link and want to replace it quiclky.

 

[s44]

yes it will work, I got a 500W enhance 5150gh with 18A, 18A I believe just like yours

Uh, no. The Enhance -- unlike the Coolermaster -- puts out a combined 36A. Not all PSUs add, but that one does.

 

[JimmiG]

My GTX460 1GB works fine with a 450W PSU (12V @ 33A)

Also don't get anything slower than a GTX460 for 1680x1050 gaming. The GTX460 is the minimum for this resolution! Only get something slower if you play at something like 1280x720 or don't mind dialing down graphics settings. Even lowering the resolution might not help, since modern games stress the shader cores and tessellation units regardless of the resolution. It's better to be a little CPU limited in a few cases, than to get a card that's too slow, like the GTX450, and have both the CPU and GPU holding back performance.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Get a better power supply if you plan to use a 460. Yours is crap.

Review:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/arti...me-Power-Plus-500-W-Power-Supply-Review/728/7

Hell it is my opinion you should invest in a better power supply regardless of what video card you get.

And definitely DO NOT do any overclocking - like some people are suggesting.

 

[Termie]

I think you're fine on the PSU. The review above actually says it provides a real 500w. Just go for it. I'm running my GTX460 on a real 400w PSU, and with my e8400, I don't pull more than 200w from the wall. There is no way you'll exceed 300w in an entire lifetime with that rig plus a GTX460. You've said you don't have a lot of money to spend on this project right now, and buying a new PSU really isn't necessary (yet).

Take a look at the 1680x1050 graph on this page of the Toms Hardware analysis: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-balanced-platform,2469-8.html. The GTX460-768 is about equal to a GTX285. You'll see that it becomes slightly bottlenecked by a pentium e6300, which is close to your CPU in performance. So in my opinion, the GTX460-768 is the highest you should go. The memory limitation will have no effect whatsoever at your resolution.

These Far Cry 2 results show the worst-case scenario: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-balanced-platform,2469-9.html. In the last generations of cards, nVidia definitely ended up being more CPU-limited. Still, a GTX285-class card (like the GTX460-768) will give you much better performance in the future without being too bottlenecked today.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

I think you're fine on the PSU. The review above actually says it provides a real 500w. Just go for it. I'm running my GTX460 on a real 400w PSU, and with my e8400, I don't pull more than 200w from the wall. There is no way you'll exceed 300w in an entire lifetime with that rig plus a GTX460. You've said you don't have a lot of money to spend on this project right now, and buying a new PSU really isn't necessary (yet).

You obviously didn't read the whole thing...

Bad ripple and noise is NOT GOOD. High ripple leads to instability and can damage components. Just because it output 500W doesn't mean anything, like the review CLEARLY states. That 500W is not stable. Somewhere between Test 3 (300W) and Test 4 (400W) it starts to get bad.

Invest in a decent power supply, and it will last more than just a few years and across several builds. There are decent and inexpensive ones out there. That Cooler Master is not decent. And it's pretty inefficient.

 

[Termie]

You obviously didn't read the whole thing...

Bad ripple and noise is NOT GOOD. High ripple leads to instability and can damage components. Just because it output 500W doesn't mean anything, like the review CLEARLY states. That 500W is not stable. Somewhere between Test 3 (300W) and Test 4 (400W) it starts to get bad.

Invest in a decent power supply, and it will last more than just a few years and across several builds. There are decent and inexpensive ones out there. That Cooler Master is not decent. And it's pretty inefficient.

No one is going to argue that his power supply is great. But he's on a budget and wants to know if it'll run with a gtx460. My advice is that it will. Yours is that it may be unstable above 300w and that it's inefficient. Interesting? Yes. Critical to whether this guy on a budget can try running a gtx460 in his system? No. If he wants to overclock then yes, he should get a better psu. And I don't recommend the 1GB gtx460 for him because it uses 20 extra watts and the extra cost will not bring him any performance benefits.

 

[nkzuz]

Thanks for your opinions, everyone.

You see, I got the CoolerMaster because it was the best I could find here for a reasonable price back then. I live in Argentina and most stores here don't care about good PSUs, so they have crappy generic ones, or crappy brands they try to pass off as better PSUs. The CoolerMaster was obviously more expensive than those, and it works just fine with my current setup, even though it's not the best PSU out there, of course.

The store I'm considering buying from (online) only has the 1 GB CYCLONE card. They also have a 600W OCZ StealthXStream PSU for a good price, which seems quite good according to this review.

So I think I'm either going to get that 1 GB CYCLONE card + 600W OCZ PSU and try to sell my CoolerMaster PSU, or see if I can get a GTS450 or a 768MB GTX460 in a local store. But I'll have to keep the CoolerMaster in that case, they only have crappier PSUs in that local store.

 

[Termie]

Thanks for your opinions, everyone.
...
So I think I'm either going to get that 1 GB CYCLONE card + 600W OCZ PSU and try to sell my CoolerMaster PSU, or see if I can get a GTS450 or a 768MB GTX460 in a local store. But I'll have to keep the CoolerMaster in that case, they only have crappier PSUs in that local store.

Glad to help. If you can get the 1GB Cyclone by mail-order cheaper or for almost the same price as the GTS450 or GTX460-768 locally, by all means go for the 1GB. I just wouldn't pay much more for it. And that PSU does sound like a big improvement. If you can afford it, it would be worth investing in.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

No one is going to argue that his power supply is great. But he's on a budget and wants to know if it'll run with a gtx460. My advice is that it will. Yours is that it may be unstable above 300w and that it's inefficient. Interesting? Yes. Critical to whether this guy on a budget can try running a gtx460 in his system? No. If he wants to overclock then yes, he should get a better psu. And I don't recommend the 1GB gtx460 for him because it uses 20 extra watts and the extra cost will not bring him any performance benefits.

No one is pointing out his power supply is bad. The StealthXStream, while not excellent, is good and much better than the Cooler Master.

He also made no mention of what his budget is and all that it entails. Hence why I offered my opinion of the situation. It's more than just "interesting", so please don't downplay the significance.

What's ridiculous is that some people here were recommending he get the GTX 460 AND overclock on that power supply. That is just not safe; not safe at all. So if you don't think my advice was critical in this regard, then you need to re-examine yourself and stop being controversial. He would be putting his entire system at risk doing what most people here advised him to do.

The significance of a higher efficient power supply is that it is quite possible it will pay for itself, or greatly reduce its cost of operation, over its lifetime. And he does live outside the US, so there is a good possibility he's paying a lot on the electric bill. Which means an efficient PSU will be of even greater cost benefit, as well as adding safety for his components.

I'm not really concerned about what video card he can get. I think it's wiser to invest in a better power supply. But if he can have his cake and eat it too, then that is obviously the best route. In fact since he wants some longevity out of his system, spending more is the only way to do this. And I think it would be better to get the power supply now, and then get a video card whenever. And you will say differently. There is nothing more to this than that.

 

[Termie]

No one is pointing out his power supply is bad. The StealthXStream, while not excellent, is good and much better than the Cooler Master.

He also made no mention of what his budget is and all that it entails. Hence why I offered my opinion of the situation. It's more than just "interesting", so please don't downplay the significance.

What's ridiculous is that some people here were recommending he get the GTX 460 AND overclock on that power supply. That is just not safe; not safe at all. So if you don't think my advice was critical in this regard, then you need to re-examine yourself and stop being controversial. He would be putting his entire system at risk doing what most people here advised him to do.

The significance of a higher efficient power supply is that it is quite possible it will pay for itself, or greatly reduce its cost of operation, over its lifetime. And he does live outside the US, so there is a good possibility he's paying a lot on the electric bill. Which means an efficient PSU will be of even greater cost benefit, as well as adding safety for his components.

I'm not really concerned about what video card he can get. I think it's wiser to invest in a better power supply. But if he can have his cake and eat it too, then that is obviously the best route. In fact since he wants some longevity out of his system, spending more is the only way to do this. And I think it would be better to get the power supply now, and then get a video card whenever. And you will say differently. There is nothing more to this than that.

My mistake - you're right that he wasn't on a particular budget, and now it looks like he'd like to buy a new PSU. My point was that he can try to run the new card on his present system, not overclocked (which is what I said all along), and if he encounters problems, he could then get a new PSU. I still believe it would work, and that was his original question. But if he doesn't mind spending the money all at once, by all means, a better PSU is a good investment in terms of increasing the lifespan of the system.

Edit: honestly, when you said to the OP that his PSU was "crap," I think you were the one being controversial. That really wasn't all that constructive.

 

[nkzuz]

Hmm, guys, if you're still around, I have another question regarding the PSU.

Looking at the specs of the 600W OCZ PSU, I just noticed it has only about 35.4A on the 12V rails (if I'm right about the specs). That's only 5A more than my current CoolerMaster (except it's better quality), and less than the 38A* MSI lists as a requirement for the 1 GB OC card (and even their GTS450 card, wtf).

So I don't know what to do. Is it going to work ok with that PSU? Otherwise, I'll have to wait until they lower the prices here, or get the GTS450.

* = That's a lot! Is that right? Some SLI certified PSUs don't have twice that much on 12V. :/

 

[CurseTheSky]

Most video card manufacturers over-provision the requirements for their cards by a bit due to the crop of bad PSUs out there. The "30A" on the label a crappy PSU could be more like 20A under stress and heat, or perhaps 30A with a ton of ripple and other nasty things. So, the card manufacturers figure if they require an extra 30% leeway, less people will stress their barely-adequate, bargain basement PSUs to death.

With all of that said, you will PROBABLY be ok. But that's just that - probably. I would personally grab something like this, if you can afford it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371015