PSA: Race and Crime

[Spungo]

People who think race plays a fundamental role in crime can't see past their noses.

And that's your opinion as a world class medical researcher? Genes have little or no role in impulsiveness or violent behavior?

Genes responsible for variations of monoamine oxidase (MAO destroys monoamine neurotransmitters. Old school antidepressants worked by blocking this enzyme).
COMT gene variation (COMT destroys dopamine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A#Aggression_and_the_.22Warrior_gene.22

A version of the monoamine oxidase-A gene has been popularly referred to as the warrior gene. Several different versions of the gene are found in different individuals, although a functional gene is present in most humans (with the exception of a few individuals with Brunner syndrome).[16] In the variant, the allele associated with behavioural traits is shorter (30 bases) and may produce less MAO-A enzyme.[17] This gene variation is in a regulatory promoter region about 1000 bases from the start of the region that encodes the MAO-A enzyme.
The frequency distribution of variants of the MAOA gene differs between ethnic groups.[17][18] 59% of Black men, 56% of Maori men, and 34% of Caucasian men carry the 3R allele. 5.5% of Black men, 0.1% of Caucasian men, and 0.00067% of Asian men carry the 2R allele.[18][19][7][20][21][22][17][23][24][25]

Science confirms the obvious: not all humans are the same.

Ethnicity and hormones in women

Among postmenopausal women, there were significant race/ethnicity differences in baseline sex hormones and changes in sex hormones.

Ethnicity has a significant impact on susceptibility and effect of certain illnesses.
ethnicity and schizophrenia

According to the study, a diagnosis of schizophrenia or psychosis was 3.3 times more likely for African Americans and 2.9 times more likely for Latinos than for their white counterparts. (which may or may not be caused by racism)
....
"We know that depression can look different based on the ethnic group," Dr. Edelsohn said. "Latins and Asians present with somatic complaints; Africans present with anger." For truly effective treatment, It is important for clinicians to understand these variables and be sensitive to them. That is why Dr. Edelsohn and her associates will continue to investigate the relationship between ethnicity and diagnosis.

But what do scientists know. All they do is look at MRI scans, do blood tests, and write down observations about behavior. The doctor's quote about different depressive behaviors would explain a lot of stereotypes. The sleepy Mexican, the angry black, the quiet Asian. All of them have depression. Of course, he's not the only doctor to notice that different ethnicities are different.

ethnicity and antidepressant response

Response to antidepressant therapy with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) or norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (NRIs) largely depends on an individual's genetic make-up as well as ethnicity, a new study reports.
...
Investigators found the presence of polymorphisms in both the serotonin transporter (SERT) and the norepinephrine transporter (NET) genes predict both response and lack of response to therapy with SSRIs or NRIs.
..
"There's clearly an ethnic difference in the polymorphism effect, which means you cannot automatically extrapolate pharmacogenetic findings from 1 ethnic group to another," said Dr. Carroll.

Damn reality, always getting in the way of political correctness.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Well first of all, I seriously doubt "race" per se is a factor in it at all, if by race we are referring to genetics. Culture might play a role. There is also socio-economic conditions which are inextricably linked to culture. There is also a history which is formative of the culture in question.

And that is something that is nearly impossible for modern progressives to wrap their minds around... That 'culture' and 'skin color' (genetics) should not be linked in these discussions.

 

[werepossum]

Great thoughts on this post.


It's a horrible catch 22 IMO, politics oversimplifies and deceives on issues because it is the easiest way to gain votes/support. The result, naturally, is poor policy/rhetoric based on the axiom of the underlined in your post.

The solution seems clear. Better politicians/leaders, but given they cater to the vote it can be concluded the responsibility comes back to the individual.

This is generally why I believe centralization of power and control is a terrible thing, where empowering individuals is a great thing. The struggle to achieve the right balance here has the very real affect of creating pain and suffering in areas it need not be.

Thanks, and I agree completely about centralization of power and control.

Or you could take the libertarian position. The current system motivates you to succeed! If you want to kill someone, don't start by buying a gun. Get a second job, start a business, become a self made millionaire, murder that person, then hire the best lawyer and get away with it.

(as Chris Rock points out, he got away with it because he's rich)

Other examples:
EVERY CELEBRITY EVER.
How many times did police catch someone like Lindsay Lohan with cocaine and do nothing about it? They get something like probation. Trailer Park Charlie would get 20 years.

Lot of truth in that second part. For the first part, if one becomes a self-made millionaire the urge to kill someone else usually abates.

 

[nehalem256]

Lot of truth in that second part. For the first part, if one becomes a self-made millionaire the urge to kill someone else usually abates.

:biggrin: Or maybe its not murder if you are rich?

 

[werepossum]

And that's your opinion as a world class medical researcher? Genes have little or no role in impulsiveness or violent behavior?

Genes responsible for variations of monoamine oxidase (MAO destroys monoamine neurotransmitters. Old school antidepressants worked by blocking this enzyme).
COMT gene variation (COMT destroys dopamine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A#Aggression_and_the_.22Warrior_gene.22

Science confirms the obvious: not all humans are the same.

Ethnicity and hormones in women


Ethnicity has a significant impact on susceptibility and effect of certain illnesses.
ethnicity and schizophrenia

But what do scientists know. All they do is look at MRI scans, do blood tests, and write down observations about behavior. The doctor's quote about different depressive behaviors would explain a lot of stereotypes. The sleepy Mexican, the angry black, the quiet Asian. All of them have depression. Of course, he's not the only doctor to notice that different ethnicities are different.

ethnicity and antidepressant response


Damn reality, always getting in the way of political correctness.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that racial difference don't include genetic differences or that genetic differences don't exert different impulses and propensities, but three things spring to mind:
1. Genetic differences set patterns when all else is equal, but all else is never equal. Concentrate on what we can control.
2. Genetic differences are at this point not addressable, so noting them has little practical value.
3. Genetic differences may be expressed in positive or negative ways depending on culture and opportunity. Someone with the "warrior gene" may be a violent criminal, or he may be a soldier, cop, fire man, race car driver, etc. Aggression is not in and of itself bad.

 

[moonbogg]

And that's your opinion as a world class medical researcher? Genes have little or no role in impulsiveness or violent behavior?

Genes responsible for variations of monoamine oxidase (MAO destroys monoamine neurotransmitters. Old school antidepressants worked by blocking this enzyme).
COMT gene variation (COMT destroys dopamine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A#Aggression_and_the_.22Warrior_gene.22

Science confirms the obvious: not all humans are the same.

Ethnicity and hormones in women


Ethnicity has a significant impact on susceptibility and effect of certain illnesses.
ethnicity and schizophrenia



But what do scientists know. All they do is look at MRI scans, do blood tests, and write down observations about behavior. The doctor's quote about different depressive behaviors would explain a lot of stereotypes. The sleepy Mexican, the angry black, the quiet Asian. All of them have depression. Of course, he's not the only doctor to notice that different ethnicities are different.

ethnicity and antidepressant response


Damn reality, always getting in the way of political correctness.

Is that your elaborate way of saying you hate black people? That's kind of how I took it. Just come out and say it and stop being such a pussy.

 

[Ketchup]

Is that your elaborate way of saying you hate black people? That's kind of how I took it. Just come out and say it and stop being such a pussy.

People who quote facts are so racist!

 

[nehalem256]

Am I the only one that sees the irony of Libs saying:

When a white-hispanic shoots a teen that is assaulting him its because of race...

That despite libs making comparisons of the last Republican president to monkeys and burning Bush effigies everyone that criticizes Obama is doing it because of race...

That when Republicans pass laws that make Democrats less likely to vote its because of race...

It seems to me that liberals think that everything is because of race, oh except for crime, that for some reason has nothing to do with race.

 

[Attic]

Am I the only one that sees the irony of Libs saying:

When a white-hispanic shoots a teen that is assaulting him its because of race...

That despite libs making comparisons of the last Republican president to monkeys and burning Bush effigies everyone that criticizes Obama is doing it because of race...

That when Republicans pass laws that make Democrats less likely to vote its because of race...

It seems to me that liberals think that everything is because of race, oh except for crime, that for some reason has nothing to do with race.

Eh, once the well has been poisoned its best to leave it be. It's clear there is significant acceptance that using rasicsm to assault folks who disagree with liberal policy is tolerated. Arguing why its hypocritical or flat out wrong is simply seen as drawing from the well, so once you enter the debate it becomes very clear whether you are rasict or not. Dont disagree or else.

I get that conservatives are hurt by this, racists are something to be ignored and suspicious of, why do you think the left pulls this crap so often? The catch is that the solution is not external to the lefts leadership. Why give up the nuke, even the mere threat of using it has destroyed many worthwhile debates on how to solve issues, done so that one way of thinking can maintain control.

 

[Spungo]

People who quote facts are so racist!

Exactly my point. I posted a similar thing on a feminist forum showing that male brains are fundamentally different from female brains and that's why their behavior is different. The response was that I hate women. wtf? I AM a woman.

A lot of problems with some groups of people could be caused by not understanding the mentality of those people. The current system tries to beat people down and force square pegs into round holes, which obviously doesn't work. Right now boys are struggling in school because society has vilified masculine behavior. We want boys to act like girls then we act shocked when it fails completely. Boys are not girls. Different hormones create different brains. A lot of psychiatry is based on girls, so lots of boys are diagnosed as being mentally ill just because they are boys. ADD is a perfect example of this. Girls often have "inattentive" ADD; this is characterized by spacing out a lot. Girls (and some boys) who have inattentive ADD are rarely diagnosed as having a problem because it's seen as normal behavior to space out all the time, lose track of conversations, be late all the time, and have poor planning skills. This type of ADD would probably explain why men have historically not taken women seriously. My own mother is an example of this. She really looks like she is paying attention, but then she says something and it becomes apparent that she doesn't completely understand what the conversation is about. ADD is a very common trait just like having glasses is very common. Rather than say girls are ill, society adjusted to work around this problem, and women are doing great right now.
Boys are not so lucky. Boys often have "hyperactive" ADD which is characterized by interrupting people, blurting out answers, constantly tapping things, clicking pens, playing with change in their pocket, fidgeting in their seat, and actions that could be considered disruptive. While we all seem to agree that many boys naturally act like this, we still label them as ill and try to drug them until they are girls. Treating them like this simply doesn't work. Boys function better when they are treated like boys. They do well when forced to compete against each other. They calm down after they've had time to run around and play.

Right now our society is trying to make black people act like white people. This fails just as hard as trying to make boys act like girls. Back during the days of segregaton and people on all sides agreeing that white people and black people are different, black communities were quite strong even while they were heavily oppressed, and black culture was positive. You can listen to early rap music and notice that none of it is about shooting people or objectifying women. The black community only started having a sharp decline when liberals declared that white and black people are exactly the same in all ways and should therefore be held to the same standards. Just as boys are vilified for being boys, blacks are vilified for being black. The people who understand these differences are called racist. One example I can think of is Joe Rogan's story about him and his friends seeing Planet of the Apes in a black neighborhood where everybody else in the theatre was black. In a white theatre, you're expected to be quiet at all times, but that's not how the black theatre works. Black people yell funny things like "oh he be runnin shit now!" at the screen, and that's part of the experience. In the black theatre, this is not a problem, nobody is judged, nobody is singled out as being the bad guy. In the black theatre with black rules, black people are doing just fine. In a white threatre with the no talking rules, the black guy yelling that might be kicked out. He might ask for his money back. The manager might say no, and that's when a conflict starts. That black guy is labelled as beligerant and aggressive (exactly the same thing women say about men being men) because his behavior does not match the setting. Instead of just saying this conflict is an unfortunate clash of expectations, society will say that guy has anger problems or he's too aggressive or some other nonsense.

You'll never be able to understand and embrace diversity until you admit it exists. I like how my black friends act black. I like how my female friends act female. I like how my guy friends act like guys.

 

[Ketchup]

...You'll never be able to understand and embrace diversity until you admit it exists. ....

Had to quote that one. Excellent statement!

 

[Svnla]

<snip>

You'll never be able to understand and embrace diversity until you admit it exists. I like how my black friends act black. I like how my female friends act female. I like how my guy friends act like guys.

Oh no, you better watch out now since certain members will call you vile names and label you as "racist".

Personally, I agree with your post. If we can't debate with facts and logic, why even bother.

 

[nehalem256]

Exactly my point. I posted a similar thing on a feminist forum showing that male brains are fundamentally different from female brains and that's why their behavior is different. The response was that I hate women. wtf? I AM a woman.

Isn't it funny that they jump to you "hating women" instead of you "think women are superior to men"?

It seems that the real problem feminists have is a massive inferiority complex that they think men are inherently superior to women and therefore anyone stating that men and women are different must think women are inferior.