Info PSA- Public impeachments start today- UPDATE 2/5/2020- Trump wins.

[soundforbjt]

So Pubs are moving to position Soundland in the path of a large yellow vehicle.

You can take that measly 1 mil donation and go home.

 

[Jhhnn]

Castor sounds weak and evasive while he's being questioned.

But... the shit dems are pulling with designating their counsel as a witness and not a staffer to begin with (so he can impugn Trump) and then reversing that later (so he doesn't need to be sworn in and doesn't need to be questioned and can himself cross the aisle and do the questioning) without addressing the conflict just reeks of corruption and abusing their house majority -- which happens to be one of the main Republican talking points.

Which side wins today's hearing will be largely based on how well those competing narratives are sold. Weak Castor vs. dem shenanigans.

Thank you for parroting bullshit Repub talking points. Dems are so corrupt. They're the real abusers. Cheaters. So unfair. Blah-blah-blah.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It sounds kinda like Sensenbrenner is upset because an investigation had the power to actually uncover wrongdoing from the WH. That seems like a silly stance to take.

 

[vi edit]

Oh fuck right off Sensenbrenner. Your entire rambling grandstand is outright bullshit. Nunes got himself into this and was caught up in normal investigative process. Don't want to be associated with a crime? DON'T ASSOCIATE WITH A CRIME.

 

[fskimospy]

Thank you for parroting bullshit Repub talking points. Dems are so corrupt. They're the real abusers. Cheaters. So unfair. Blah-blah-blah.

The absolute commitment to #bothsides is impressive sometimes. I mean sure Republicans are arguing insane conspiracy theories and one of the members of the HPSCI appears to have been an active co-conspirator in wide ranging criminal activity used to subvert our electoral process but the Democratic counsel was both a witness and a questioner so really it's 50/50.

 

[vi edit]

These hearings (and Benghazi before it) are proof forward we are utterly fucked as a country. Anyone that doesn't have issues with the behavior and complete lunacy of Republicans in this process is a lost cause.

 

[HurleyBird]

Thank you for parroting bullshit Repub talking points. Dems are so corrupt. They're the real abusers. Cheaters. So unfair. Blah-blah-blah.

You're being intellectually dishonest. The point is that Nadler made contradictory pronouncements about Berke's status since if you're consistent either way some part of his role is improper. And then gaveled down any attempt to right it.

That has no bearing on whether or not it's generally the Democrats or the Republicans who are corrupt in a general sense. Democrats were corrupt in this instance, and the Republicans rightly raised a fuss.

And yes, perception will be based on how well conservatives can make the conversation about this blatant procedural abuse rather than Castor's terrible performance. That much is common sense.

And for the record, not that it should matter at all, but I also think that Trump likely did exactly what he's accused of. Even though we almost certainly disagree regarding how well Democrats are making their case.

Of course, I doubt any forum conservatives will call me out on disparaging Castor's performance in the post you took umbrage to, or with saying that I think Trump is guilty just now. Might want to think on that.

 

[fskimospy]

You're being intellectually dishonest. The point is that Nadler made contradictory pronouncements about Berke's status since if you're consistent either way some part of his role is improper. And then gaveled down any attempt to right it.

That has no bearing on whether or not it's generally the Democrats or the Republicans are corrupt in a general sense. Democrats were corrupt in this instance, and the Republicans rightly raised a fuss.

Of course, I doubt any forum conservatives will call me out on disparaging Castor's performance...

I think you misunderstood his point which is that while it's true that's not a great way to run a hearing it's a laughably small issue compared to basically any of the misconduct displayed by Republican members of the two committees. To try and equate the two is absurd. The endless commitment to #bothsides is deeply corrosive to our democracy.

And for the record, not that it should matter at all, but I also think that Trump likely did exactly what he's accused of. Even though we almost certainly disagree regarding how well Democrats are making their case.

I mean the legal case is open and shut - if Trump were not the president and this were instead submitted to a jury he would almost certainly be heading to prison. There are certainly any number of former politicians in prison for cases much less strong than this one.

Not to mention that the primary complaint that Republicans put against the case is that the Democrats lack direct witnesses to Trump's orders, which is of course because Trump is committing an entirely separate felony/impeachable offense by obstructing the investigation, haha.

 

[vi edit]

I say the Dems just take off the gloves and go full Benghazi on Jared and Ivanka. Republicans are clinging to Hunter Biden as their only real card. Fine. Expose everything Jared has done with ZERO background and experience for the position he's in.

 

[fskimospy]

I say the Dems just take off the gloves and go full Benghazi on Jared and Ivanka. Republicans are clinging to Hunter Biden as their only real card. Fine. Expose everything Jared has done with ZERO background and experience for the position he's in.

This is because the Republicans know Trump is guilty and they don't care. That's the entire purpose of going after Hunter Biden.

If Hunter Biden were 100% guilty of some sort of terrible corruption it would not matter in the slightest as to whether or not Trump should be impeached. Trump was extorting a foreign power for selective prosecution of people's families because they are his political opponents.

 

[hal2kilo]

Holy crap synchronized video and audio. About time.
You go GOHMERT.

 

[hal2kilo]

But Obama.

 

[vi edit]

I understand that. The point being is completely distract Trump over the next year and put him into an indefensible position. If the knock on Biden is a kid in an unqualified position, well he has two doing the same. Just shed some light and blind him.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

If Hunter Biden were 100% guilty of some sort of terrible corruption it would not matter in the slightest as to whether or not Trump should be impeached. Trump was extorting a foreign power for selective prosecution of people's families because they are his political opponents.

And if they feel as though he (Joe or Hunter) did commit some heinous act, feel free to bring it to light and let it be investigated. If they did something wrong, i'll be right there alongside them calling foul. But quit trying to place that in the middle of Trump's impeachment as though it validates Trump's actions.

 

[Gabe323]

Have any of the R's asked a question with their 5 minutes yet?

 

[96Firebird]

Thankfully I don't live in the south, I cannot take that accent seriously.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Have any of the R's asked a question with their 5 minutes yet?

No, they've just complained about the Democratic witness not answering questions.

 

[hal2kilo]

Have any of the R's asked a question with their 5 minutes yet?

No, but Gohmert's doing a wonderful job of lying. Even has the balls to make a comparison of how the Bengazi hearings were conducted.

 

[vi edit]

Dear Gohmert: Obama executive orders per year: 34.6
Trump executive orders per year: 46.5

And those first 2 years for Trump were with a republican controlled house, senate and stacked supreme court.

 

[hal2kilo]

Gym, you still need a new act. No WB for you. Don't you get it.

 

[TheVrolok]

Jim Jordan back to the same old thing.. "They got all the stuffs so no quid pro quot!" ... after they got caught.

"It's all hearsay!" ... WH won't allow primary sources to testify ... Mmmmhmm, strong case from the Repbs.

 

[HurleyBird]

I think you misunderstood his point which is that while it's true that's not a great way to run a hearing it's a laughably small issue compared to basically any of the misconduct displayed by Republican members of the two committees.

And I'm saying I didn't compare it to Republican misconduct in any way (Although I will say that it's much more easy to be, and to be seen as, procedurally unfair when you're in control of the procedures). Only that it's obviously a shenanigan, it reinforces a major Republican talking point, and to the extent Republicans can use it to frame the narrative they can score points.

I mean the legal case is open and shut - if Trump were not the president and this were instead submitted to a jury he would almost certainly be heading to prison. There are certainly any number of former politicians in prison for cases much less strong than this one.

I totally disagree. Knowing Trump, I'm sure he did do it, or at least wanted to but botched the execution. The issue is that Sondland's "presumption" is not the smoking gun that's needed, and Zelansky's continued and adamant denials of any impropriety, like any alleged victim turning hostile to the prosecution, certainly wouldn't lend itself to a Jury verdict.

Not to mention that the primary complaint that Republicans put against the case is that the Democrats lack direct witnesses to Trump's orders, which is of course because Trump is committing an entirely separate felony/impeachable offense by obstructing the investigation, haha.

And the Republican response to that would be along the lines of "Democrats are shielding testimony, especially from Schiff and the whistleblower whose identity is already known. We aren't going to play ball when you're abusing the process. Your power of subpoena isn't limitless. If you don't like it, take it up with the courts."

My own opinion on the matter is that both Democrats and Republicans share some blame for not escalating the subpoena disagreement to the court system. Republicans should have appealed instead of denying access. Democrats should have brought suit after the denial. Chances are that after all is said and done Democrats would have gotten most, but not all, of what they wanted.

 

[hal2kilo]

Nice try. Sondland's becoming a hearsay witness now.

 

[TheVrolok]

Literally none of the things Jordan is saying are facts.. are facts.

 

[Jaskalas]

The take away is that Republicans stand FOR Trump.

Trump is not the problem here. The Republicans are. Impeaching him would only bring a pretense of competence back, but the Republican party can never come back from being this corrupt, not in our life times. They are not defending sex in the oval office. They are defending the extortion of a foreign nation for personal and political gain in the interference of an election.

AKA, the whole Russia thing... but now the Republicans are out, open and proudly standing for it. They can do anything, however vile, just deny and deflect as if it never happened. Or blame someone else. But Republicans will NEVER take responsibility for this crime... for their crimes. It is their crime, as they are the corrupt conspirators allowing it to happen. Republican defense of Trump is sickening, and I cannot help but wonder if our nation has already fallen from within. It's just going to take us a few years, maybe even decades, to feel the worst of it.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall. For us, perhaps that also means it takes a long time to fall from grace. At least in American history there was once a time that a Republican President caught in criminal disgrace had the moral character to resign. And the American people, THE PEOPLE, once had the moral character to demand that resignation. THAT is the big change. Not one man, but an entire party for the criminally corrupt.

And with that change having occurred, we are so doomed.