Info PSA- Public impeachments start today- UPDATE 2/5/2020- Trump wins.

[interchange]

Brazen in terms of his complete disregard for Congressional authority. He is the first President to challenge Congressional oversight. He is the only President facing impeachment to treat it as a bluff. We are in uncharted waters.

It supports articles of impeachment. Since Congress narrowly focusing impeachment to the Ukraine affair, the President does get a chance to explain his actions to the Senate. That is why we see Trump already pivoting the narrative while simultaneously shifting to offense.

I mean... Is there any conceivable legal grounds for defense of his defiance?

 

[brycejones]

Knight takes drama queen. I see the pawns assembled to like your post.

This post exposes your bull shit exactly for what it is.

 

[Starbuck1975]

This post exposes your bull shit exactly for what it is.

Why, because I called out yours? Irony

 

[Starbuck1975]

I mean... Is there any conceivable legal grounds for defense of his defiance?

None that are credible, but he doesn’t need credibility to survive the Senate.

 

[Starbuck1975]

That's right, strut around with nothing to back yourself up. You won big bird. Feel free to shit on the biggest statue in your line of sight.

<shrug>

 

[NWRMidnight]

Can the kids please leave the room, so the adults can carry on a discussion without all the childish comments.. thanks.

 

[interchange]

None that are credible, but he doesn’t need credibility to survive the Senate.

So you agree he should be removed from office. Not will. But should.

 

[Starbuck1975]

So you agree he should be removed from office. Not will. But should.

I agreed he should have been removed the day after his inauguration. Should is a given. Will is questionable.

 

[VRAMdemon]

The hearings are over with respect to this impeachment inquiry. However, expect investigations will continue and further public hearings will occur. It's almost beyond comprehension that more wrongdoing by Trump won't come to light and require further investigation and oversight. Especially if he's elected again.

What if a review of his tax returns reveal long-term, widespread money laundering for the Russians?

What if, as has already been hinted at, Russian oligarchs are the co-signers on his big loans with Deutsche Bank, and we learn they basically own him?

This is different from other similar scandals/impeachments in my lifetime in one major way. Trump’s absolute and total lack of contrition, remorse or even an awareness that his actions were wrong in regards to Ukraine. Like a spoiled and enabled child is constantly assured by his parents that anything bad is not his fault, that everyone else is just jealous or mean, or the system is rigged, or that the teacher obviously hates him, Trump is constantly assured by his lackeys that he's omnipotent, bulletproof, in the right and that the people who oppose him are enemies of the state - they are jealous and mean - the system is rigged against him - and the press obviously hates him.

This was true for the 2016 interference as well. Trump sees absolutely no light between “what is good for him” and “what is good for the country”. To him, what is good for the country is for Trump to be president for the next 5 years, at least. And the end justifies the means, no matter what they are. And unfortunately, his supporters feel the same way. That’s why the entire Republican Party is engaging in such highly outrageous gaslighting.

If Trump were a different person - someone who was likable, had personal charm, a person with integrity and real leadership skills, it would have been so easy for him to make this all go away. One press conference, turn on the charm, show some remorse and talk about how he should have known how business is different from government and how he got carried away, one apology to the American people and Zelensky, and poof....All this Ukraine stuff would probably be gone.

But no, instead he’s getting normally rational conservatives, independents and people of other political stripes, saying ridiculous stuff like “No, I don’t think Trumps focus on Hunter and Joe Biden is related in any way to Biden’s candidacy” with a straight face.

 

[VRAMdemon]

I wonder if Melania was outraged just moments before when her husband was calling Pelosi, Schiff, and Nadler losers in a press conference.

All things being equal I genuinely wish Barron well. If the kid has an ounce of situational awareness he probably does not want to grow up to be anything like his father. And no matter what happens over the next few years, his life is going to be fucked up in a manner of ways.

How about this for poetic justice? Barron Trump, entirely despite his father's influence, grows up to be a decent human being and eventually decides to run for office... He tells detailed stories about watching his father trying to burn the country down, breaking the law and how he knew from a young age that it was his duty to clean up the old man's mess.

 

[ivwshane]

All things being equal I genuinely wish Barron well. If the kid has an ounce of situational awareness he probably does not want to grow up to be anything like his father. And no matter what happens over the next few years, his life is going to be fucked up in all manner of ways.

How about this for poetic justice? Barron Trump, entirely despite his father's influence, grows up to be a decent human being and eventually decides to run for office... He tells detailed stories about watching his father trying to burn the country down and how he knew from a young age that it was his duty to clean up the old man's mess.

Are you familiar with trumps other sons? Lol

 

[cytg111]

You would be great for SNL

But SNL

 

[interchange]

I agreed he should have been removed the day after his inauguration. Should is a given. Will is questionable.

Thanks for this at least, although I would still like a clear answer to the question whether you think, based on the merits known now, Trump should be removed from office on the basis of obstructing the impeachment inquiry.

Also I am curious as to what grounds justify the stance he should have been removed from day 1.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Thanks for this at least, although I would still like a clear answer to the question whether you think, based on the merits known now, Trump should be removed from office on the basis of obstructing the impeachment inquiry.

I am dancing around this because there is a line between obstruction and defending oneself, so I am considering the implications for future Presidents in balance with the emotional urgency to remove Trump.

Also I am curious as to what grounds justify the stance he should have been removed from day 1.

He took meetings with foreign agents and publicly encouraged their interference in an election. That was a known fact before Mueller was even set in motion.

 

[JSt0rm]

He took meetings with foreign agents and publicly encouraged their interference in an election. That was a known fact before Mueller was even set in motion.

good. We should impeach the traitor.

 

[fleshconsumed]

All things being equal I genuinely wish Barron well. If the kid has an ounce of situational awareness he probably does not want to grow up to be anything like his father. And no matter what happens over the next few years, his life is going to be fucked up in a manner of ways.

How about this for poetic justice? Barron Trump, entirely despite his father's influence, grows up to be a decent human being and eventually decides to run for office... He tells detailed stories about watching his father trying to burn the country down, breaking the law and how he knew from a young age that it was his duty to clean up the old man's mess.

Are you familiar with trumps other sons? Lol

LOL exactly. It's not like Eric and Junior grew up to be decent human beings. I will be pleasantly surprised if Barron turns out different, but odds are against it. Cultural and familial bonds are exceptionally hard to break free from.

 

[dank69]

LOL exactly. It's not like Eric and Junior grew up to be decent human beings. I will be pleasantly surprised if Barron turns out different, but odds are against it. Cultural and familial bonds are exceptionally hard to break free from.

Somehow I doubt Donald had much interaction with any of his children, at least compared to most fathers anyway. If my assumption is true then the kids are probably as different as their mothers (or nannies, in some cases I suspect).

 

[soundforbjt]

Somehow I doubt Donald had much interaction with any of his children, at least compared to most fathers anyway. If my assumption is true then the kids are probably as different as their mothers (or nannies, in some cases I suspect).

I saw a video on youtube of a 4 year old Barron playing in the background of an interview with Trump, Barron spoke with his mother's accent.

 

[dank69]

I saw a video on youtube of a 4 year old Barron playing in the background of an interview with Trump, Barron spoke with his mother's accent.

Melania: Don't you want to spend some quality time with your child?
Donald: What's in it for me?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Melania: Don't you want to spend some quality time with your child?
Donald: What's in it for me?

Barely know the guy

 

[alien42]

Melania: Don't you want to spend some quality time with your child?
Donald: What's in it for me?

"That's how the First Lady got involved. She's got a son -- together -- that's a beautiful young man, & she feels very very strongly about it."

 

[blackangst1]

So Pelosi has now directed the chairmen to proceed with articles of impeachment.

@blackangst1 are you now totally super surprised or something? The rest of the conservatives who inexplicably thought Trump wouldn’t be impeached, are you guys just blown away by this 100% foreseeable development?

Surprised, yes. Totally super? nah.

 

[kage69]

nm

 

[compuwiz1]

How is this really going to work out? Not too good, I think.

Donald Trump was elected to break the elite. Of course they want to impeach him

Donald Trump now has an obvious path to a second term

Neither of those links came from Faux news. Some people are waking up and seeing the light.

 

[interchange]

I am dancing around this because there is a line between obstruction and defending oneself, so I am considering the implications for future Presidents in balance with the emotional urgency to remove Trump.

I agree with the principle, and yet if I think of the crime of obstruction and how to commit it in the most egregious way, I can't come up with anything worse than what Trump is doing. If we don't even try as zealously as possible to remove him from office for this, the precedent for future presidents to me seems that any form of oversight is voluntary. Surely you can't suggest that's the precedent we should have, can you?

So I'm left with two ways of reasoning through your uncertainty. One is that I'm missing something in which case I would love to hear what you have too offer. The other is that the source of your uncertainty is emotional attachment and not reason. If so, that's ok. You've proven already the healthy ability to examine it. That's something I respect highly. And if it turns out I'm missing something, I expect the reason for it is my own emotional attachment. I'm always thankful in the end to see my own biases even though it feels awful getting there.