PSA: Please don't stereotype an entire group based on the actions of a few

inf1nity

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,181
3
0
In light of the recent hate that was posted here, i'd like to appeal to the people not to base their their opinions on indian and Hindu people on what was posted here recently.

most Hindu people are quite moderate and believe in harmony and peace. Ancient india has had a reputation for giving refuge to various persecuted gruops from around the world. For example, the Jews

However, for the last 20 years or so, there has been happening a systematic opression of hindus and unfair advantages given to muslims in the name of secularism. Muslims are potrayed by the left wing political parties as opressed and poor, and are given special rights such as affirmative action in government jobs, schools and institutions of higher education. Not only this, there have been cases where the government has amended the constitution of India to pander to Muslims!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_Begum

As you can see in the example above, the government of india amended the constitution of India, under pressure from hardline Islamist groups, to neutralise a perfectly just decision of the Supreme Court, that a Muslim man will have to pay alimony to his wife. In india, polygamy is outlawed for everyone except Muslims. In this aspect, Muslims have created another Pakistan within India, where they don't have to follow laws, don't have to respect the constitution and can force politicians to bend to their whims by their sheer numbers. There are around 177,700,000 muslims in India and make up 14-15% of the population. However they don't vote on basis of issues like the economy, unemployment etc, like the majority population. They vote for the party that can pander to them the most. Most parties pander to them by giving them unfair advantages and a free hand during religious riots. these parties have managed to stay in power for the past 40 years by doing so since the muslim vote as a combined block and anyone receiving their votes can win election easily.


The current Prime Minister of india, Narendra modi, is often criticized by Muslims activists around the world for his alleged role in the 2002 Gujarat riots. However, nobody, ever talks about the reason why the riots started.
The riots happened because Muslims burnt a train full of hindu pilgrims, for no reason at all..! After the incident, the so called seculars tried to downplay that incident by calling the pilgrims fundamentalists.


Basically these days in India, it goes like this-

If you don't pander to Muslims, you are communal(India's version of the race card) and a bigot.
If you don't support Muslim rioters, you are a communal and a bigot.
If you speak out against Muslim separatism and terrorism, you are communal and a bigot.

On the other hand, if you support terrorists and interfere in judicial process on their behalf, you are secular.

If you support Muslim hate speech, you are secular.

If you support illegal Muslim immigrants, you are secular; but if you talk about stopping illegal immigration, you are a bigot.

These double standards for Muslims and secularism have caused a growing resentment among the majority Hindu community of india. The feeling of being persecuted in their own country has started to result in backlash. Corrupt politicians come to power with muslim support and create problems for the economy. Honest, right wing, nationalist politicians are often unable to gain power because of not pandering to Muslims.

This backlash sometimes results in extreme hate speech like we saw recently. However, I can assure the entire Anandtech community that the majority of Hindu people are peaceful and wish to live in harmony. The US itself has 1,543,730 Hindus. The total Hindu population of the world is more than a billion. Yet, they have not caused any trouble for the most part.

Once again, I'd like to request the Anandtech community not to paint an entire population of a billion people on a certain poster's posts.


Thank you for reading.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
There are people every where who are over the top/extremist while the vast majority are decent people. I base my opinions on how people of given races, nationalities, or religions that I've worked with/in their country over the years act or speak.
 

mrjminer

Platinum Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,739
16
76
Good post, but I wouldn't worry too much. I don't think anyone is going to take what the person you speak of as a representation of India or Hindu. He was clearly a raving lunatic.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
Good post, but I wouldn't worry too much. I don't think anyone is going to take what the person you speak of as a representation of India or Hindu. He was clearly a raving lunatic.
+1

And good post OP.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
In light of the recent hate that was posted here, i'd like to appeal to the people not to base their their opinions on indian and Hindu people on what was posted here recently.

most Hindu people are quite moderate and believe in harmony and peace. Ancient india has had a reputation for giving refuge to various persecuted gruops from around the world. For example, the Jews

However, for the last 20 years or so, there has been happening a systematic opression of hindus and unfair advantages given to muslims in the name of secularism. Muslims are potrayed by the left wing political parties as opressed and poor, and are given special rights such as affirmative action in government jobs, schools and institutions of higher education. Not only this, there have been cases where the government has amended the constitution of India to pander to Muslims!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_Begum

As you can see in the example above, the government of india amended the constitution of India, under pressure from hardline Islamist groups, to neutralise a perfectly just decision of the Supreme Court, that a Muslim man will have to pay alimony to his wife. In india, polygamy is outlawed for everyone except Muslims. In this aspect, Muslims have created another Pakistan within India, where they don't have to follow laws, don't have to respect the constitution and can force politicians to bend to their whims by their sheer numbers. There are around 177,700,000 muslims in India and make up 14-15% of the population. However they don't vote on basis of issues like the economy, unemployment etc, like the majority population. They vote for the party that can pander to them the most. Most parties pander to them by giving them unfair advantages and a free hand during religious riots. these parties have managed to stay in power for the past 40 years by doing so since the muslim vote as a combined block and anyone receiving their votes can win election easily.


The current Prime Minister of india, Narendra modi, is often criticized by Muslims activists around the world for his alleged role in the 2002 Gujarat riots. However, nobody, ever talks about the reason why the riots started.
The riots happened because Muslims burnt a train full of hindu pilgrims, for no reason at all..! After the incident, the so called seculars tried to downplay that incident by calling the pilgrims fundamentalists.


Basically these days in India, it goes like this-

If you don't pander to Muslims, you are communal(India's version of the race card) and a bigot.
If you don't support Muslim rioters, you are a communal and a bigot.
If you speak out against Muslim separatism and terrorism, you are communal and a bigot.

On the other hand, if you support terrorists and interfere in judicial process on their behalf, you are secular.

If you support Muslim hate speech, you are secular.

If you support illegal Muslim immigrants, you are secular; but if you talk about stopping illegal immigration, you are a bigot.

These double standards for Muslims and secularism have caused a growing resentment among the majority Hindu community of india. The feeling of being persecuted in their own country has started to result in backlash. Corrupt politicians come to power with muslim support and create problems for the economy. Honest, right wing, nationalist politicians are often unable to gain power because of not pandering to Muslims.

This backlash sometimes results in extreme hate speech like we saw recently. However, I can assure the entire Anandtech community that the majority of Hindu people are peaceful and wish to live in harmony. The US itself has 1,543,730 Hindus. The total Hindu population of the world is more than a billion. Yet, they have not caused any trouble for the most part.

Once again, I'd like to request the Anandtech community not to paint an entire population of a billion people on a certain poster's posts.


Thank you for reading.

Sounds like a certain Western country. If I don't support Sharia law and illegal immigration I'm a bigot. If I don't support irresponsible behavior without penalties then I'm a right-wing draconian extremist.

Truth is, it's a little more complex than the black-and-white that we seem to like. For instance:

I support PEOPLE, not ideologies. I support personal responsibility not GOVERNMENT responsibility. I also support allowing people to suffer the consequences of being dumbasses. Nothing makes someone remember NOT to do something better a MAJOR failure, and the pain that goes along with it.

That being said, there's morons aplenty, and nobody seems to want them to be held accountable, thus promulgating this behavior.

You fall off of a bike and you hurt. Problem solved in that you don't WANT to fall anymore. What if falling off a bike didn't hurt in any way? What if not having a job didn't hurt? What if punching your neighbor didn't hurt you?

Just saying.....
 

inf1nity

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,181
3
0
There are people every where who are over the top/extremist while the vast majority are decent people. I base my opinions on how people of given races, nationalities, or religions that I've worked with/in their country over the years act or speak.

Good post, but I wouldn't worry too much. I don't think anyone is going to take what the person you speak of as a representation of India or Hindu. He was clearly a raving lunatic.

Thank you. As i said, the reason why Modi got such a resounding majority was that Indian people(especially the younger generation) are fed up of the culture of socialism, corruption and votebank politics that has plagued india for the past 67 years. They are disgusted and see hope in this man.

These policies have kept India into a 3rd world state, while places like China that were on par with us a few decades back have zoomed into 1st world status. I am a believer in democracy, but i think this is one part where democracy has failed us. Poor, uneducated people vote for corrupt politicians that exploit them.

When we step out into the world, people smirk when we tell them where we are from. India is considered a dirty, corrupt place. This forum is an excellent example. I have now lost count of the number times my country has been called a "shithole". This is why the ruling party was utterly decimated. The anger in people is intense.

In case anyone is interested in reading a fair, unbiased article on the recent election verdict and challenges that lie ahead, here's a good article-

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/17/opinion/agrawal-memo-to-modi-india-future/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
 

inf1nity

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,181
3
0
Sounds like a certain Western country. If I don't support Sharia law and illegal immigration I'm a bigot. If I don't support irresponsible behavior without penalties then I'm a right-wing draconian extremist.

The UK?
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,967
140
106
stereotyping is the fundamental operating principal of sensitivity training. this is how liberals learn liberalism.
 

JManInPhoenix

Golden Member
Sep 25, 2013
1,500
1
81
All of the Indians/south Asians I have met have been pretty cool. Never had a problem with any of them - can't say the same for my own socio-economic group.
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
this is a hard top to decide since polygamy is a religious thing for muslim. yet modern laws prohibit it. On moral group i'd side w/ the law, but on religious ground they do have some merits to be allowed. It's a tough call, there will have to be some limit to religious practices though. You can't allow a religion to drink human blood just cause it's in their religious, there should still be some limitation that is in line w/ modern society.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
more or less this is what you get with corrupt politicians

they do not care what muslims do as long as they get elected and are allowed to continue their cronyism and corruption

however my advice to you

do you put faith in one party like the bnp

you want multiple political parties to represent india the more choices you have the more certian parties an not just let a few issues rule over all other issues and they have to actually represent the indian populace more when there is more representation
 

inf1nity

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,181
3
0
more or less this is what you get with corrupt politicians

they do not care what muslims do as long as they get elected and are allowed to continue their cronyism and corruption

however my advice to you

do you put faith in one party like the bnp

you want multiple political parties to represent india the more choices you have the more certian parties an not just let a few issues rule over all other issues and they have to actually represent the indian populace more when there is more representation

No i am not one of those people who are "faithful" to certain parties. I have voted for other parties in the past. I mostly base my vote upon two factors- whether the party can solve issues that are important; and whether the candidate is an honest and hard-working person or not.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
most Hindu people are quite moderate and believe in harmony and peace. Ancient india has had a reputation for giving refuge to various persecuted gruops from around the world. For example, the Jews

No doubt about this, India is a beautiful, spiritual place filled with lot's of great people


However, for the last 20 years or so, there has been happening a systematic opression of hindus and unfair advantages given to muslims in the name of secularism. Muslims are potrayed by the left wing political parties as opressed and poor, and are given special rights such as affirmative action in government jobs, schools and institutions of higher education. Not only this, there have been cases where the government has amended the constitution of India to pander to Muslims!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_Begum

As you can see in the example above, the government of india amended the constitution of India, under pressure from hardline Islamist groups, to neutralise a perfectly just decision of the Supreme Court, that a Muslim man will have to pay alimony to his wife. In india, polygamy is outlawed for everyone except Muslims. In this aspect, Muslims have created another Pakistan within India, where they don't have to follow laws, don't have to respect the constitution and can force politicians to bend to their whims by their sheer numbers. There are around 177,700,000 muslims in India and make up 14-15% of the population. However they don't vote on basis of issues like the economy, unemployment etc, like the majority population. They vote for the party that can pander to them the most. Most parties pander to them by giving them unfair advantages and a free hand during religious riots. these parties have managed to stay in power for the past 40 years by doing so since the muslim vote as a combined block and anyone receiving their votes can win election easily.


The current Prime Minister of india, Narendra modi, is often criticized by Muslims activists around the world for his alleged role in the 2002 Gujarat riots. However, nobody, ever talks about the reason why the riots started.
The riots happened because Muslims burnt a train full of hindu pilgrims, for no reason at all..! After the incident, the so called seculars tried to downplay that incident by calling the pilgrims fundamentalists.


Basically these days in India, it goes like this-

If you don't pander to Muslims, you are communal(India's version of the race card) and a bigot.
If you don't support Muslim rioters, you are a communal and a bigot.
If you speak out against Muslim separatism and terrorism, you are communal and a bigot.

On the other hand, if you support terrorists and interfere in judicial process on their behalf, you are secular.

If you support Muslim hate speech, you are secular.

If you support illegal Muslim immigrants, you are secular; but if you talk about stopping illegal immigration, you are a bigot.

These double standards for Muslims and secularism have caused a growing resentment among the majority Hindu community of india. The feeling of being persecuted in their own country has started to result in backlash. Corrupt politicians come to power with muslim support and create problems for the economy. Honest, right wing, nationalist politicians are often unable to gain power because of not pandering to Muslims.


This part kind of comes off as like your stereotyping an entire group based on the actions of a few though
Maybe you think of it as a way to build a bridge with some of the other posters here?
You have minority problems, they have minority problems?


This backlash sometimes results in extreme hate speech like we saw recently. However, I can assure the entire Anandtech community that the majority of Hindu people are peaceful and wish to live in harmony. The US itself has 1,543,730 Hindus. The total Hindu population of the world is more than a billion. Yet, they have not caused any trouble for the most part.

Once again, I'd like to request the Anandtech community not to paint an entire population of a billion people on a certain poster's posts.


Thank you for reading.

A guy has to keep things in perspective for sure, that probably helps with gaining insight
 

inf1nity

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,181
3
0
This part kind of comes off as like your stereotyping an entire group based on the actions of a few though
Maybe you think of it as a way to build a bridge with some of the other posters here?
You have minority problems, they have minority problems?

What?
Actions of a few? Try a million. Muslims always vote for those who pander to them. There are some exceptions, but they are few.

Why would i try to build a bridge with anyone here? I was just giving people a perspective from the ground and urging them not stereotype Hindus on what was posted here.(Please go through the entire thread and read the OP's posts before making further comments)
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I'm surprised that the US only has 1.5 million Hindus. Seems like there are a lot more Indians than that - which is a good thing from convenience stores all the way up through our advanced degrees in technical fields. Are we selectively importing Christians or Muslims?
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
What?
Actions of a few? Try a million. Muslims always vote for those who pander to them. There are some exceptions, but they are few.

People do tend to vote for those who make them promises everywhere


Why would i try to build a bridge with anyone here? I was just giving people a perspective from the ground and urging them not stereotype Hindus on what was posted here.(Please go through the entire thread and read the OP's posts before making further comments)

I saw that thread, I saw a lot of good people and a couple of people being assholes
I think it's pretty obvious Baasha just has not met a lot of the good ones, and see's a lot of bad ones on the TV youtube and even here

I enjoy hearing things from your perspective in India.
 

radhak

Senior member
Aug 10, 2011
843
14
81
In light of the recent hate that was posted here, i'd like to appeal to the people not to base their their opinions on indian and Hindu people on what was posted here recently.

Basically these days in India, it goes like this-

If you don't pander to Muslims, you are communal(India's version of the race card) and a bigot.
If you don't support Muslim rioters, you are a communal and a bigot.
If you speak out against Muslim separatism and terrorism, you are communal and a bigot.

On the other hand, if you support terrorists and interfere in judicial process on their behalf, you are secular.

If you support Muslim hate speech, you are secular.

If you support illegal Muslim immigrants, you are secular; but if you talk about stopping illegal immigration, you are a bigot.

These double standards for Muslims and secularism have caused a growing resentment among the majority Hindu community of india. The feeling of being persecuted in their own country has started to result in backlash. Corrupt politicians come to power with muslim support and create problems for the economy. Honest, right wing, nationalist politicians are often unable to gain power because of not pandering to Muslims.

This backlash sometimes results in extreme hate speech like we saw recently. However, I can assure the entire Anandtech community that the majority of Hindu people are peaceful and wish to live in harmony. The US itself has 1,543,730 Hindus. The total Hindu population of the world is more than a billion. Yet, they have not caused any trouble for the most part.

Once again, I'd like to request the Anandtech community not to paint an entire population of a billion people on a certain poster's posts.

Thank you for reading.

While it's evident that you want to distance yourself from that poster, you are not going far enough from him. His language is crass, his brush is very wide (clubbing all religions other than Hinduism with Islam), but your brush is itself wide too. You want everybody to believe that muslims vote en-bloc without exception. But if that were the case, 177 million or 15% of the population should have been king-maker in every election, which has not been the case. Elections have mostly been decided on how much fed-up the voters are of the incumbent govt, other than the 1984 elections which were unduly influenced by the assassination of Indira Gandhi. Case in point, the current election, where Modi has secured a lot of the muslim vote. Historically the hindu right wing parties in India have not done anything to allay fears in the muslim mind, to persuade them vote for them.

And as for the other examples you quote, it's just politicians being political. You have cherry picked cases where muslim votes were sought by non-BJP parties; there are other similar cases that pander to various denominations of caste and religion, even by the BJP when they were in power at the center or at state levels.

You are appealing not to be stereotyped, but you are doing the same to muslims. You claim that a majority of Hindus are easy going; that would apply to mostly any large group of people - the fringes are always loud and offensive, the majority is tolerant but silent. If you really want to demonstrate an all-inclusive, non-discriminatory thinking, stop over-generalizing based on religion.
 

inf1nity

Golden Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,181
3
0

Why do you think indian politicians go to such extreme lengths to get Muslim vote? do you think anybody would've done this for Hindu/Sikh/Christian vote?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahom...es-claims-rape-NOT-attract-death-penalty.html

http://www.ndtv.com/elections/artic...dia-azam-khan-s-comment-under-scrutiny-506323

It is common knowledge in India that muslim organisations work to defeat BJP everytime, under the name of secularism. The only reason they failed this time was that people were angry with Congress and the Hindu vote consolidated behind Narendra Modi.