PSA: Most blacks don't have a photo id.

newmachineoverlord

Senior member
Jan 22, 2006
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http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_20050619/ai_n14673154
" The contrast between adults of color and whites are sharp. A bit more than half of African-American men (55%) and a bit less than half of Hispanic men (46%) lack a valid driver's license. In contrast, only a sixth of white men (17%) lack such a license. A portion of those numbers can use suspended licenses to vote.

Generally among all adults, Hispanic women fare the worst. A whopping three-fifths (59%) lack valid licenses.

-- Among 18- to 24-year-olds, 64% of white men but only 22% of black men boast valid driver's licenses."

There were some widespread misconceptions in other threads, so apparently there was a need for this thread. Even though this has been covered before, some people just don't seem to understand that millions of americans have no photo ID. Furthermore, even a cursory inspection of the issue reveals that a photo ID requirement will do absolutely nothing to prevent any fraud whatsoever. (Read the following article for details.) The movement for photo id requirements is transparently an effort to selectively disenfranchise the poor and minorities, and has nothing to do with voter impersonation, which virtually never happens anyways.

http://www.demos.org/pubs/CFE_voterid_102706.pdf

"A recent survey of Ohio?s 88 county boards of elections found only four instances of ineligible people attempting to vote, out of over 9 million votes cast in the state during the 2002 and 2004 general elections?a fraud rate of 0.000044 percent.
The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) reports that while 200 million votes were cast in federal elections since October 2002, only 86 individuals have been convicted of federal voter fraud?and none for offenses that would have been prevented by a voter ID requirement.
3 An extensive analysis of election fraud conducted by Professor Lorraine Minnite at Barnard College in 2002?the only study of its kind, to date? found that voter fraud is rare, that safeguards to prevent fraud are already in place, and that individual voter fraud rarely sways election results."

Edit: people also don't remember that the constitution prohibits poll taxes because they are discriminatory (all photo id's have a cost associated with them, thus requiring one constitutes a poll tax in the spirit of the constitutional amendment.):

"Amendment XXIV - Poll Tax Barred. Ratified 1/23/1964. History

1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."
 

steppinthrax

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2006
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Somehow I'm not surprised that most blacks don't carry a photo ID. I carry my DL along with me everywhere I go even If i got to take out my trash. If a officer ask you for your ID to identify you for any reason I beleive it is considered Vagabond or somthing like that.
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
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Actually if an officer asks for your ID you have 24 hours or something to show it to him. Driving without a drivers license is only illegal if you aren't actually licensed. If you don't have it on you can't be arrested.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: Strk
That's pretty bad, but I still support showing an ID to vote.

Agreed, and agreed. We have enough issues with voter fraud that an ID requirement is totally appropriate IMO.
 

steppinthrax

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2006
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Originally posted by: Aisengard
Actually if an officer asks for your ID you have 24 hours or something to show it to him. Driving without a drivers license is only illegal if you aren't actually licensed. If you don't have it on you can't be arrested.

Laws are different for every state. But I believe if you don't have a method of identification you can get arrested just on that basis. I feel it is a citizens responsability to always carry ID everywhere you go. People need to know who you are in case you are in trouble etc..... It is socially irresponsabile.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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Originally posted by: Strk
That's pretty bad, but I still support showing an ID to vote.

You can certainly support that but given the RIGHT to vote is codified . . . the state cannot promulgate rules that will clearly disenfranchise otherwise eligible voters.
 

jrenz

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
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They must have some form of photo ID, otherwise the liquor stores would go out of business.
 

steppinthrax

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2006
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Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Strk
That's pretty bad, but I still support showing an ID to vote.

You can certainly support that but given the RIGHT to vote is codified . . . the state cannot promulgate rules that will clearly disenfranchise otherwise eligible voters.

If they make voting mandatory like they do in aulstralia see how many people will bring ther photo ID. But I think in that case our voting system just will be overtaxed and it will span out over a whole month.....
 

Pacemaker

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2001
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I've never met anyone without some form of ID. I don't know how you can live without ID, you can't even get a job without ID. Not having a DL is one thing, but not having ID? You can get a State ID card for 5-10 bucks in most states. 5-10 bucks and it lasts for YEARS.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Strk
That's pretty bad, but I still support showing an ID to vote.

You can certainly support that but given the RIGHT to vote is codified . . . the state cannot promulgate rules that will clearly disenfranchise otherwise eligible voters.

If the state can provide an ID; then it is the voter's decision to not accept it.

Forcing the payment of an ID for voting is one thing (illegal); providing an ID for voting is another.

Anyone trying to use the lack of an ID for not voting seems to forget that those people either never registered to vote or are unable to vote.

In order to register to vote; one shows an ID. So how do those that have no ID register? Most probably do not care to.

 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Strk
That's pretty bad, but I still support showing an ID to vote.

You can certainly support that but given the RIGHT to vote is codified . . . the state cannot promulgate rules that will clearly disenfranchise otherwise eligible voters.

If they make voting mandatory like they do in aulstralia see how many people will bring ther photo ID. But I think in that case our voting system just will be overtaxed and it will span out over a whole month.....

People should be encouraged to vote but not forced into the endeavor. The US system is the epitome of how to waste a lot and accomplish little. IIRC, one of the first people placed in charge of the voter reform initiative left in disgust . . . calling it a charade and a big waste of money.

All US citizens (eligible to vote) have a SSN. If necessary I would reform the SS law and allow exactly ONE additional use . . . identification for the purpose of voting.
 

slsmnaz

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2005
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Photo ID does not equal drivers license. All you have to do is prove who you are and get a pic taken. I wonder how all these people live in the US and are never asked to for any form of ID. How are they registered voters then?
 

Drakkon

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2001
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yay for AZ making it a LAW that you must have 2 forms of ID to be able to vote.
If you arent competent enough to have an ID i dont want you voting anyways :p
 

ManyBeers

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: Aisengard
Actually if an officer asks for your ID you have 24 hours or something to show it to him. Driving without a drivers license is only illegal if you aren't actually licensed. If you don't have it on you can't be arrested.


If you don't have it on your person you will probably be given a ticket. You must have your license on you when driving.

from California Dept of Motor Vehicles website: (which would be true in many states)

Regardless of age, a person must have in their immediate possession a driver license or Instruction permit of the appropriate class to operate a motor vehicle.

 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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I knew there had to be a reason GOP didn't want them to vote. Blacks and senior citizens.
 

beyoku

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2003
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Does not having a "valid drives license" mean that they have no "State issued ID" ?
i am a black person and i do not have a valid drivers license. I havent had a valid drivers license for a long time (east coast) but i have always had state issued identification. It costs about 12.oo and its good for 5 years. You need it to get a job, or cash a pay check (if you have not banking account) Could i use this to vote or not? i am not sure what the article is getting at but it leaves out a big gap to be answered. If "most blacks" really didnt have ID then those poor blacks counldnt even cash checks, welfare checks at that.....i doubt this is the case.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
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How do people not have a drivers license? Those stats are astonishing.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
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I find this line from the OP interesting:

"A recent survey of Ohio?s 88 county boards of elections found only four instances of ineligible people attempting to vote, out of over 9 million votes cast in the state during the 2002 and 2004 general elections?a fraud rate of 0.000044 percent.

How do they know if the people voting were who they said they were if they didn't have photo IDs? That line in particular really tries to deflect the issue by providing facts that don't have anything to do with the topic.
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
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Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: Strk
That's pretty bad, but I still support showing an ID to vote.

You can certainly support that but given the RIGHT to vote is codified . . . the state cannot promulgate rules that will clearly disenfranchise otherwise eligible voters.

LOL...no one is being disenfranchised....anyone who wants to vote can, you just need to get a state ID...anyone cand do that....the fact is that to vote now, you can't just walk in...you may have to actually do some work, like...oh...I don't know.....perhaps actually prove who you are?

The elections are spaced apart enough and there is enough information plastered all over the tv about the requirements to vote....people have plenty of time to get prepared.

If you are too lazy and incompentent to get a state ID within a year or two, chances are you won't get your lazy ass out to vote anyway....besides at that rate you don't desreve the right.
 
May 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Actually if an officer asks for your ID you have 24 hours or something to show it to him. Driving without a drivers license is only illegal if you aren't actually licensed. If you don't have it on you can't be arrested.

Laws are different for every state. But I believe if you don't have a method of identification you can get arrested just on that basis. I feel it is a citizens responsability to always carry ID everywhere you go. People need to know who you are in case you are in trouble etc..... It is socially irresponsabile.

Papers please!!!
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
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Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: Strk
That's pretty bad, but I still support showing an ID to vote.

Agreed, and agreed. We have enough issues with voter fraud that an ID requirement is totally appropriate IMO.

I concur.
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: ntdz
How do people not have a drivers license? Those stats are astonishing.

Not everyone lives in the sticks. In urban areas many people don't have cars????
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
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I recommend that the gov't institute a national requirement for photo ID to vote.

But don't require it for the 2008 election. That will be the last grace period election. Anyone who says they don't have a photo ID when they go to vote in 2008 can fill out paperwork and get a picture taken for a free state photo ID to use in 2010.