Ps4 ps2 emulation

[monstercameron]

It has enough grunt to do it and surprisingly upscaled and processes the image so it looks and runs better than on the original hardware. Even trophy support!

I'm at work so I can't get the digital foundry footage where they show the comparison.

Who knows, its a stretch but maybe ps3 emulation is feasible.

I might buy a ps4 if I could go back and play so of those ps2 classics!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA6TdEstNUg

 

[Rakehellion]

Wrong forum?

The Xbox One can play Xbox 360 games, so PS3 on PS4 isn't so far fetched.

The PS3 can play PS2 games as well. But if you're just looking to play PS2 games you might as well buy the disc and emulate on your PC.

 

[SPBHM]

Wrong forum?

The Xbox One can play Xbox 360 games, so PS3 on PS4 isn't so far fetched.

The PS3 can play PS2 games as well. But if you're just looking to play PS2 games you might as well buy the disc and emulate on your PC.

they emulate less demanding games, it's not a generic emulator compatible with any game.

the original backwards compatible PS3 had PS2 hardware in it to run PS2 games properly, later they started selling full software emulated PS2 titles, but they never released a lot of more demanding games.

even on PCSX2 you will find performance problems and bugs with the demanding games, keeping the old PS2 to play PS2 is probably not a bad idea,

emulating the PS3 seems unlikely with the PS4 CPU, but who knows.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-hands-on-with-ps4-playstation2-emulation

their look on the star wars PS2 games emulated on the PS4.

 

[Actaeon]

PS3 to PS4 is unlikely. In addition to the technical difficulties, they want your money for the PSNow service.

 

[DaveSimmons]

The X1 BC is like the X360 BC -- it's not a general-purpose emulator as such, it's a set of per-game individual ports with some shared emulation libraries.

That's why you get lists of specific titles, instead of being able to run any title just possibly with fatal problems.

For PS4, some games are getting "native" "HD" remakes instead of BC. The rest are left to PSNow.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The X1 BC is like the X360 BC -- it's not a general-purpose emulator as such, it's a set of per-game individual ports with some shared emulation libraries.

False:

"The approach that we've taken is to actually emulate the full Xbox 360 hardware layer. So the [operating system] for the 360 is actually running when you run the game," Spencer explained.

"If you watch the game's boot you'll see the Xbox 360 boot animation come up. From a performance standpoint it allows [emulation] to work. We're able to get frame by frame performance equivalents."

"[Xbox Live] thinks you're on a 360, so people have been asking 'hey, why are you playing Mass Effect on the 360?,' I was actually playing on the Xbox One."

Spencer continued to explain that, since the Xbox One thinks it's playing a normal game, features such as streaming and screenshots are supported.

"The 360 games think they're running on the 360 OS, which they are. And the 360 OS thinks its running on the hardware, which it's not, it's running on an emulated VM. On the other side, the Xbox One thinks it's a game. That's why things like streaming, game DVR, and screenshots all work, because it thinks there's just one big game called 360."

Delving deeper, Spencer explained exactly how the emulator packages the Xbox 360 games, and how it compares to Xbox 360's emulation of original Xbox games.

"You download a kind of manifest of wrapper for the 360 game, so we can say 'hey, this is actually Banjo, or this is Mass Effect. The emulator runs exactly the same for all the games.

"I was around when we did the original Xbox [backwards compatibility] for Xbox 360 where we had a shim for every game and it just didn't scale very well. This is actually the same emulator running for all of the games. Different games do different things, as we're rolling them out we'll say 'oh maybe we have to tweak the emulator.' But in the end, the emulator is emulating the 360, so it's for everybody."

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/revealed-how-xbox-one-can-play-360-games-via-backw/1100-6428366/

The Xbox 1 has a full emulator, the reason they have the list is for presentation.

In my opinion the Xbox 360 emulator on the Xbox 1 is the biggest technological software miracle we have seen since Apple got PowerPC apps to run on Intel chips.

 

[Exophase]

The Xbox 1 has a full emulator, the reason they have the list is for presentation.

It's a full emulator, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of optimizations, possibly extensive ones given to some games on an individual level. Not really sure what you mean by presentation here, but a list that is heavily represented by XBLA games with the rest mostly being less demanding/earlier releases implies some things. Now that could be somewhat due to game size as well, who knows, but they definitely haven't been going down and knocking out title after title from the top 100 list. The list is more impressive if you count all the ones are pending, but that further begs the question - if the emulator works great with all these games out of the box what's the hold up?

If someone finds a way to hack the emulator so you can play any games and a good spread of them perform well we can say it works very well as a general purpose XB360 emulator. Until then we don't really know for sure.

 

[Techhog]

PS3 on PS4 isn't so far fetched.

LOL! No, it's ridiculous. Cell is so difficult to emulate that even a golden max overclocked 5960X would struggle. In fact, Cell is arguably faster than PS4's CPU.

 

[Mercennarius]

It's a full emulator, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of optimizations, possibly extensive ones given to some games on an individual level. Not really sure what you mean by presentation here, but a list that is heavily represented by XBLA games with the rest mostly being less demanding/earlier releases implies some things. Now that could be somewhat due to game size as well, who knows, but they definitely haven't been going down and knocking out title after title from the top 100 list. The list is more impressive if you count all the ones are pending, but that further begs the question - if the emulator works great with all these games out of the box what's the hold up?

If someone finds a way to hack the emulator so you can play any games and a good spread of them perform well we can say it works very well as a general purpose XB360 emulator. Until then we don't really know for sure.

From what Microsoft has said its all permissions and paperwork holding up games. Each game has to be reauthorized by all parties to be added to the Xbox One library. Unfortunately this means some games will never make the BC transition simply because they never get the required permissions.

 

[Mercennarius]

LOL! No, it's ridiculous. Cell is so difficult to emulate that even a golden max overclocked 5960X would struggle. In fact, Cell is arguably faster than PS4's CPU.

Overall it's a slower CPU than what's in the PS4. Though at certain tasks it is probably faster/more capable.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It's a full emulator, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of optimizations, possibly extensive ones given to some games on an individual level.

Sure, but that is pretty much the case with almost all console emulators this side of projects like Higan.

Not really sure what you mean by presentation here,

If you go to community emulation pages you can often find game lists plus some sort of score of how compatible any particular game is. I am sure what MS is doing is not allowing emulation of games that would be below a "perfect" level on a community emulator list. The general public isn't used to emulator quirks, so a whitelist is a way to hide that from them.

but a list that is heavily represented by XBLA games with the rest mostly being less demanding/earlier releases implies some things.

Just like most emulators I bet they found out that emulating the first year games (that didn't max the hardware) was easier. Every emulator project starts that way, the Xenia emulator also only runs early games:

http://kotaku.com/xbox-360-emulation-is-coming-along-1710492796

if the emulator works great with all these games out of the box what's the hold up?

It seems pretty obvious the emulator isn't perfect yet, and is still in earlier stages. Emulation is rarely perfect, even the best console emulators we have have issues with some games. The only way around that is low-level emulation of the hardware like Higan does, but the Xbox 1 doesn't have enough power to low-level emulate the 360. I don't think anything called a personal computer in 2015 does honestly. A low level SNES emulator takes two cores of 3GHZ to run perfectly, thanks to Intel hitting a wall we might never have a low-level Xbox 360 emulator.

If someone finds a way to hack the emulator so you can play any games and a good spread of them perform well we can say it works very well as a general purpose XB360 emulator. Until then we don't really know for sure.

That isn't really a fair standard I don't think, I can't think of any emulator like that out in the wild (and Nintendo has a few).

We know it is a general purpose emulator because they emulate the entire OS. If each of these games were just half-ports (which is the only other option) there wouldn't be need to port over the 360 OS part. Just leave that out. The fact that it's there proves that MS is using more general purpose code.

Now, who KNOWS what hacks they have to do to get individual games to run. A single game might require more code than whole parts of the general emulator. But I don't see any reason to emulate the OS otherwise, in fact it gets in the way of a clean experience.

 

[Exophase]

Sure, but that is pretty much the case with almost all console emulators this side of projects like Higan.

Not really. Not with the kinds of things I'm thinking of. Most emulators spend little or no effort applying customized per-game optimizations. That doesn't mean they're totally accurate, but those aren't the same thing.

If you go to community emulation pages you can often find game lists plus some sort of score of how compatible any particular game is. I am sure what MS is doing is not allowing emulation of games that would be below a "perfect" level on a community emulator list. The general public isn't used to emulator quirks, so a whitelist is a way to hide that from them.

Yes, and if an emulator listed such a tiny percentage of games as perfect it would be considered a massive work in progress at best.

It doesn't really take that long to test games thoroughly enough and they can bang out a ton in parallel. Which is probably what they've done to yield this substantial November 12 update, but not on a huge number of games.

Just like most emulators I bet they found out that emulating the first year games (that didn't max the hardware) was easier. Every emulator project starts that way, the Xenia emulator also only runs early games:

http://kotaku.com/xbox-360-emulation-is-coming-along-1710492796

Okay but we're talking about compatibility vs performance. Xenia is still in the early stages of both. All I'm saying is that when you see an emulator come out and it runs some small number of games really well that is NOT an indicator that given enough time it'll run a large number of games really well on this particular fixed target. While if I see a bunch of emulation errors I can at least have good confidence that they can be fixed, albeit at a possible performance hit.

The only way around that is low-level emulation of the hardware like Higan does, but the Xbox 1 doesn't have enough power to low-level emulate the 360. I don't think anything called a personal computer in 2015 does honestly. A low level SNES emulator takes two cores of 3GHZ to run perfectly, thanks to Intel hitting a wall we might never have a low-level Xbox 360 emulator.

This may come off as semantics but low level emulation doesn't mean what you think it means. Most emulators are low level.

That isn't really a fair standard I don't think, I can't think of any emulator like that out in the wild (and Nintendo has a few).

Here are some examples of commercial title-locked emulators that have been hacked to play unsupported games:

- Bleemcast (PS1 emulation on Dreamcast that was locked to one title per disc with just a few discs out)
- PS2 emulation on PS3
- Pretty much every Virtual Console thing ever released, including DS emulation on Wii U which only officially supports a few games

If I can inject some large number of random games and a lot of them work really great I can say with confidence that the emulator generally emulates XBox 360 with really good performance. Otherwise I can't really know that. There really is a distinction between those two things and it's not the same distinction as whether or not the emulator has amazing accuracy.

We know it is a general purpose emulator because they emulate the entire OS. If each of these games were just half-ports (which is the only other option) there wouldn't be need to port over the 360 OS part. Just leave that out. The fact that it's there proves that MS is using more general purpose code.

That's not the point and not what I mean when I say general purpose emulator.

Now, who KNOWS what hacks they have to do to get individual games to run. A single game might require more code than whole parts of the general emulator. But I don't see any reason to emulate the OS otherwise, in fact it gets in the way of a clean experience.

System-level emulation is more reliable and robust, but that doesn't make it impossible to insert special optimizations for patterns limited to specific games. In a way that the emulated game has no idea it's happening.

 

[Rakehellion]

In my opinion the Xbox 360 emulator on the Xbox 1 is the biggest technological software miracle we have seen since Apple got PowerPC apps to run on Intel chips.

Actually, I think Apple bought that emulator from a third party.

Another great emulator for Mac was Virtual Gamestation, a Playstation 1 emulator released in the 90's. So good that Sony attempted to sue them. They lost and eventually just bought the right to the software.

 

[dogen1]

False:


The Xbox 1 has a full emulator, the reason they have the list is for presentation.

In my opinion the Xbox 360 emulator on the Xbox 1 is the biggest technological software miracle we have seen since Apple got PowerPC apps to run on Intel chips.

This is what the technical director for the new gears remake said about it.

"It is essentially the exact same code," Rayner replied. "The Xbox team converts the 360 game and 360 flash PPC executables into native x64 executables, packages those up with the 360 game assets, 360 flash and emulator as a regular Xbox One game, and publishes it."

LOL! No, it's ridiculous. Cell is so difficult to emulate that even a golden max overclocked 5960X would struggle. In fact, Cell is arguably faster than PS4's CPU.

 

[Exophase]

From what Microsoft has said its all permissions and paperwork holding up games. Each game has to be reauthorized by all parties to be added to the Xbox One library. Unfortunately this means some games will never make the BC transition simply because they never get the required permissions.

I know some companies can be stingy with their assets but it's hard to believe that a big majority of them will be so reluctant to partake in an easy cash in, especially when they probably get to set the price. Unless they were planning on doing their own enhanced native version or something, which would only be true for a fairly small number of the games.

 

[Techhog]

You think that's an exaggeration?

 

[jpiniero]

Cell does have higher theoretical performance than the PS4'S CPU. You'd never come close to hitting it though.

 

[Techhog]

Cell does have higher theoretical performance than the PS4'S CPU. You'd never come close to hitting it though.

That doesn't change the fact that PS4's CPU could never hope to emulate it.

 

[monstercameron]

Cell does have higher theoretical performance than the PS4'S CPU. You'd never come close to hitting it though.

do you have any stats for this?

 

[railven]

Why is anyone even interested in emulation of PS2 on PS3 or PS4?

Best way to do it is with PC, period. Not only do you get more options, but you get more options! My favorite option is I can playing Japanese games without having to bring my modded PS2 out of retirement (and yes this is using a legit bought copy).

I don't think I've played a PS1/PS2 game outside of a PC environment in years!

 

[SPBHM]

Why is anyone even interested in emulation of PS2 on PS3 or PS4?

Best way to do it is with PC, period. Not only do you get more options, but you get more options! My favorite option is I can playing Japanese games without having to bring my modded PS2 out of retirement (and yes this is using a legit bought copy).

I don't think I've played a PS1/PS2 game outside of a PC environment in years!

people on consoles don't want more options,
they want to launch the game and play it, pcsx2 does not offer that, also you need more than 1.6GHz Jaguar cores to run pcsx2 well enough,

pcsx2 is great but very inefficient and far from a commercial product, full of bugs, obviously they don't have the resources Sony have, this thing here is just like playing a PS4 game, you download it from PSN and play it.

 

[railven]

people on consoles don't want more options,
they want to launch the game and play it, pcsx2 does not offer that, also you need more than 1.6GHz Jaguar cores to run pcsx2 well enough,

pcsx2 is great but very inefficient and far from a commercial product, full of bugs, obviously they don't have the resources Sony have, this thing here is just like playing a PS4 game, you download it from PSN and play it.

But this isn't the console subsection. Why I'm asking why anyone here even cares about PS2 emulation on PS3 or PS4.

Oh wells.

 

[Eric1987]

people on consoles don't want more options,
they want to launch the game and play it, pcsx2 does not offer that, also you need more than 1.6GHz Jaguar cores to run pcsx2 well enough,

pcsx2 is great but very inefficient and far from a commercial product, full of bugs, obviously they don't have the resources Sony have, this thing here is just like playing a PS4 game, you download it from PSN and play it.

Far from a commercial product? Have you used ANY modern emulator? PS4 can play ANY PS2 game 4k no issues at all. Shit I wouldn't doubt the PS4 could play PS3 games in 4k 60 FPS.

 

[Techhog]

Far from a commercial product? Have you used ANY modern emulator? PS4 can play ANY PS2 game 4k no issues at all. Shit I wouldn't doubt the PS4 could play PS3 games in 4k 60 FPS.

Not sure if sarcasm or delusion.

 

[Headfoot]

I'm going to go ahead and believe that one of the largest, most sophisticated software companies in the world that has shown immense investment and expertise in virtualization is telling the truth when they say they've developed sophisticated virtualization software, over forum jockeys who say they haven't.