Proving a negative

[QueHuong]

I often hear atheists tell Christians that you can't prove a negative when the Christians tell the atheists to prove there isn't a God after failing to prove that there is one. So what's the philosophical explanation behind "can't prove a negative"?

 

[Colt45]

generally you proves something exists - rather than non-existance.


its simple.. if it exists, you can show it. if it doesnt exist, people can argue that you just cant find it, but its there somewhere.. lol

 

[purplehippo]

proof of the existence of a creator God is all around you -- evolution is a theory -- hence not proveable

 

[Platypus]

The solution is that neither of them have any clue what they're talking about and therefore it doesn't matter.

 

[gopunk]

it means they can't do what you are asking them to do

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: purplehippo
proof of the existence of a creator God is all around you -- evolution is a theory -- hence not proveable

Could you make any less sense? 😉

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: purplehippo
proof of the existence of a creator God is all around you -- evolution is a theory -- hence not proveable

Cool...then God can watch me 'kill kittens' after I rise up from walking on all fours.

 

[KingNothing]

Proving that something doesn't exist is extremely difficult because you have to exhaust every possible way it could exist. Proving that something does exist is relatively simple because you only have to find one way.

That said, you can't prove conclusively that God does or does not exist because there's an element of faith in either belief. Scientifically proving something requires observation, and God can't be observed. What atheists and evolutionists will rarely admit is that their beliefs require as much if not more faith than Christians/creationists.

 

[jonmullen]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: purplehippo
proof of the existence of a creator God is all around you -- evolution is a theory -- hence not proveable

Cool...then God can watch me 'kill kittens' after I rise up from walking on all fours.

hahaha

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: KingNothing
Proving that something doesn't exist is extremely difficult because you have to exhaust every possible way it could exist. Proving that something does exist is relatively simple because you only have to find one way.

That said, you can't prove conclusively that God does or does not exist because there's an element of faith in either belief. Scientifically proving something requires observation, and God can't be observed. What atheists and evolutionists will rarely admit is that their beliefs require as much if not more faith than Christians/creationists.

that's not true, you can simply prove that if it exists, the existence would contradict a proven fact.

 

[KingNothing]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: KingNothing
Proving that something doesn't exist is extremely difficult because you have to exhaust every possible way it could exist. Proving that something does exist is relatively simple because you only have to find one way.

That said, you can't prove conclusively that God does or does not exist because there's an element of faith in either belief. Scientifically proving something requires observation, and God can't be observed. What atheists and evolutionists will rarely admit is that their beliefs require as much if not more faith than Christians/creationists.

that's not true, you can simply prove that if it exists, the existence would contradict a proven fact.

Yeah, I was more answering the "prove God doesn't exist" than the "prove a negative" problem. In your example you're still proving that something exists. Whatever corollaries you make off that are up to you.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: purplehippo
proof of the existence of a creator God is all around you -- evolution is a theory -- hence not proveable

I think in this case the proof is "in the eye of the beholder" as opposed to being fact.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: KingNothing
Proving that something doesn't exist is extremely difficult because you have to exhaust every possible way it could exist. Proving that something does exist is relatively simple because you only have to find one way.

That said, you can't prove conclusively that God does or does not exist because there's an element of faith in either belief. Scientifically proving something requires observation, and God can't be observed. What atheists and evolutionists will rarely admit is that their beliefs require as much if not more faith than Christians/creationists.

that's not true, you can simply prove that if it exists, the existence would contradict a proven fact.

The problem is that the existence of God is an axiom. You either accept it or you don't.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: MindStorm
I often hear atheists tell Christians that you can't prove a negative when the Christians tell the atheists to prove there isn't a God after failing to prove that there is one. So what's the philosophical explanation behind "can't prove a negative"?

the burden of proof is on the person making the positive affirmation, christians say there is a god, its there job to prove it.





a simple example that illustartes this:

i believe in a magical flying purple hippopotamus, he created the universe and all things in it. Now if i ask you to prove me wrong, there is no feasbale way you could do this because the hippo doesnt exsist.

 

[KingNothing]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: KingNothing
Proving that something doesn't exist is extremely difficult because you have to exhaust every possible way it could exist. Proving that something does exist is relatively simple because you only have to find one way.

That said, you can't prove conclusively that God does or does not exist because there's an element of faith in either belief. Scientifically proving something requires observation, and God can't be observed. What atheists and evolutionists will rarely admit is that their beliefs require as much if not more faith than Christians/creationists.

that's not true, you can simply prove that if it exists, the existence would contradict a proven fact.

The problem is that the existence of God is an axiom. You either accept it or you don't.

The existence of God is hardly an axiom, in that it is not a universally recognized truth. I would say it's self-evident, but a lot of people disagree with me.

 

[0roo0roo]

you can't prove that i'm not the 3rd ressurection of jesus.


its unprovable. what unprovable things do you choose to believe and how considering they are unprovable? by arbitrary whim? pretty much😛

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
you can't prove that i'm not the 3rd ressurection of jesus.


its unprovable. what unprovable things do you choose to believe and how considering they are unprovable? by arbitrary whim? pretty much😛

you cant be the third cause im the 4th! and we cant be here at the same time ..... or can we?

 

[KingNothing]

Then all of a sudden, North Korea jumps up on the table, cocacine smeared across its face, screaming, "DON'T FVCK WITH NORTH KOREA, MAN!! YOU MOTHERFOCKERS BETTER NOT F--K WITH ME OR I'LL RAIN ATOMIC DEATH DOWN ALL YOUR GOAT-MOLLESTING @SSES!!!"

That's hilarious, where did that come from?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
you can't prove that i'm not the 3rd ressurection of jesus.


its unprovable. what unprovable things do you choose to believe and how considering they are unprovable? by arbitrary whim? pretty much😛

you cant be the third cause im the 4th! and we cant be here at the same time ..... or can we?

you can't prove the rules didn't change🙂 you can't prove ol pops didn't bend the rules 😉

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: KingNothing

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: KingNothing
Proving that something doesn't exist is extremely difficult because you have to exhaust every possible way it could exist. Proving that something does exist is relatively simple because you only have to find one way.

That said, you can't prove conclusively that God does or does not exist because there's an element of faith in either belief. Scientifically proving something requires observation, and God can't be observed. What atheists and evolutionists will rarely admit is that their beliefs require as much if not more faith than Christians/creationists.

that's not true, you can simply prove that if it exists, the existence would contradict a proven fact.

The problem is that the existence of God is an axiom. You either accept it or you don't.

The existence of God is hardly an axiom, in that it is not a universally recognized truth. I would say it's self-evident, but a lot of people disagree with me.

What I mean is that it is unprovable -- you either accept God exists as an axiom or you don't.

It's just like Non-Euclidean geometry. In Euclidean geometry one of the axioms is "Two parallel lines never intercept". But in Non-Euclidean geometry you don't have this as one of the axioms (in this framework, two parallel lines can intercept!).

In both cases, you have a consistent mathematical system. It turns out that Non-Euclidean geometry better models the real world.

Anyways, it seems the existence of God is unprovable in our logic system (there is a very big theorem in logic that states that in every logic system you construct, you can always construct a statement that is unprovable).

Hence, you can either accept the existence of God as true or you can accept it as false. This is basically saying that the belief in the existence of God is based on faith.

 

[tk149]

Here is the simplest explanation I've found.
NOVA: What do you mean when you say that you cannot prove a negative?

KLASS: Let me give an example. No one has ever proved, to my knowledge, that Santa Claus does not exist. And if one were to fly to the North Pole and say: Well, look, there's no toy factory there. A believer could argue: Well, Santa Clause knew you were coming and moved his operations to the South Pole. So you fly down to the South Pole. No Santa Claus factory, toy factory there. So the believer would say: Oh, he moved it back up to the North Pole. So you simply cannot prove -- one cannot prove that ghosts do not exist; one cannot prove that leprechauns too do not exist. One simply cannot prove a negative.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
i believe in a magical flying purple hippopotamus, he created the universe and all things in it.

Hmmmmm.... I find your ideas intriguing and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: tk149
Here is the simplest explanation I've found.
NOVA: What do you mean when you say that you cannot prove a negative?

KLASS: Let me give an example. No one has ever proved, to my knowledge, that Santa Claus does not exist. And if one were to fly to the North Pole and say: Well, look, there's no toy factory there. A believer could argue: Well, Santa Clause knew you were coming and moved his operations to the South Pole. So you fly down to the South Pole. No Santa Claus factory, toy factory there. So the believer would say: Oh, he moved it back up to the North Pole. So you simply cannot prove -- one cannot prove that ghosts do not exist; one cannot prove that leprechauns too do not exist. One simply cannot prove a negative.

Besides, everyone knows that Santa live in Korvatunturi in Finland.

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: purplehippo
proof of the existence of a creator God is all around you -- evolution is a theory -- hence not proveable

huh? God, by the christian definition, hears all sees all, answers prayers, is responsible for miracles, etc. show me proof of any of this. the only thing that 'everything around us' proves is the existence of matter. evolution, on the other hand, is an observable fact.

 

[her209]

Who created God?