Prove me wrong about tax cuts for the rich.

[Zebo]

Do econ/accounting or econ/math. Accounting and finance aren't good on wall street anymore it is how you can handle math and make products more complicated and find patterns by torturing the data until it proves what you want.

LOL No wonder they are hiring Chinese and Indians in droves

 

[Fern]

Because the rich have a marginal propensity to save, not consume. Just because YOU saw a few rich idiots spend all their money doesn't mean they all do.

Based on what?

Financial data is private. What are they getting this info? A guess?

Are they polling rich people? I doubt it. Their contact info is well guarded and they sure as heck don't answer questions.

Fern

 

[Zebo]

I think the funniest thing about taxes is when rebulicans tell us that all our smart and talented people will leave the country if we tax the rich too much. Really, well where the fuck are they gonna go? Canada? Socialist. Europe? Socialist. China? Really? Russia? nope. They ain't going anywhere because America is the best and always will be as long as we have a powerful middle class and a relatively just society.

The money argument is BS. Money is nothing more than a symbol of the abstract value of something. We can change it on a whim if they flee. Make it bottle caps. Assets OTOH, which we currently allow money to represent, are hard to move.

As far as talent. As we destroy public education like they want talent won't be here anyway.


One way to think about wealth is "Wealth" is nothing more than a set of abstract ideas that organize distribution of what labor produces. Labor is the thing that is real. Are they going to take their labor with them? They try via outsourcing but we don't have to allow that either.

 

[Phokus]

Based on what?

Financial data is private. What are they getting this info? A guess?

Are they polling rich people? I doubt it. Their contact info is well guarded and they sure as heck don't answer questions.

Fern

Based on logic? Based on the fact that the top 10 percent of Americans own 70+ percent of wealth in this country? I don't know any CEO's, but i do know some very high paid professionals who earn mid to high 6 figures who live well below their means (but still live WAY better than the average american), since we're doing anectdotes

 

[dmcowen674]

People seem to forget the "rich" dont stuff their money into a matress. It is put into a bank. Which then dishes it out in the form of loans to people to build homes, business, cars, buy products. Or they invest into business. Taxing them is an opportunity cost on that money. Instead of going into a bank or business, it is put into the inefficient monster of big govt.

This shit pile you are spewing is so deep you can't even smell it anymore because it's over your head.

So how much do you have in offshore accounts?

 

[JMapleton]

Only about 5% of small incorporated businesses file as a c-corp (CPA society of Minnesota) which pays the corporate income tax.

They file as an s-corp which passes profit and loss through to the shareholders at their rate.

Your entire post is flawed. Try again.

We're not talking about "Small businesses," we're talking about people who make more than $250k and own businesses.

Less than 5% of small business owners make this much and most of those people do NOT file as S-Corps.

 

[JMapleton]

This is just the usual "sock it to the rich!" tripe. Nobody has presented ANY logical reason why someone who earns more than some arbitrary figure (250 thousand, 1 million, 5 million) is less deserving of a tax cut than someone making less than that figure. Just because someone earns more doesn't mean we need to steal more of their money and give it to people who do nothing to earn it.

This is an argument to boast the economy. It has nothing to do with who "Deserves" more.

The rich come out ahead even if their taxes go up if the economy is booming.

Redistributing wealth to boast the economy benefits the rich more than just giving them money and keep the economy in the dumps. Atleast the poor and middle class get something out of it if it's redistributed.

Otherwise you can live in your wealth-favored system and have some unemployed rioters burn your buildings down because the economy is bad.

You cannot have your cake and eat it to. Capitalist will be taken from us by socialist voters if you do not stimulate the economy and throw them a piece of the pie.

 

[The-Noid]

We're not talking about "Small businesses," we're talking about people who make more than $250k and own businesses.

Less than 5% of small business owners make this much and most of those people do NOT file as S-Corps.

Make your case, 6.1% of businesses with less than 100 shareholders file as c-corp. IRS 2007.

This number imo is shrinking as the LLC structure has grown.

c-corps are legacy, the corporate tax rate is mostly irrelevant.

Big corps keep money overseas, little corps file 1120-S.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...illion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html

Double Irish Dutch Sandwich...

 

[Zebo]

Based on what?

Financial data is private. What are they getting this info? A guess?

Are they polling rich people? I doubt it. Their contact info is well guarded and they sure as heck don't answer questions.

Fern

For every spend thift you find I can find a Sam Walden who drove a 73 ford pick up and lived in a $100,000 house till the day he died.

Point is not if they spend or not IMO. It's how we gonna pay for what we want as a nation. They have it to tax, 99% don't. Usually you go to where money is at if you want money. (or counterfeit US dollars like we and NK are doing)

 

[Zebo]

Make your case, 6.1% of businesses with less than 100 shareholders file as c-corp. IRS 2007.

This number imo is shrinking as the LLC structure has grown.

c-corps are legacy, the corporate tax rate is mostly irrelevant.

Big corps keep money overseas, little corps file 1120-S.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...illion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html

Double Irish Dutch Sandwich...

Can your business buy you a 'Cadillac HC plan' w/o providing it to all employees with an S? No. But can with a C. Can an S fully deduct the costs of any medical reimbursement plan? No. But can with a C. Hardly a legacy, it's the way to go. Any accountant who says otherwise is being lazy IMO.

Not to mention things like 50K per employee for education 100% write off AND not taxable to beneficiary , employer-provided vehicles, transportation passes etc etc etc. Which Cs can take and S's can't.

 

[Engineer]

You cannot have your cake and eat it to. Capitalist will be taken from us by socialist voters if you do not stimulate the economy and throw them a piece of the pie.

This x 1000.

 

[The-Noid]

Can your business buy you a 'Cadillac HC plan' w/o providing it to all employees with an S? No. But can with a C. Can an S fully deduct the costs of any medical reimbursement plan? No. But can with a C. Hardly a legacy, it's the way to go. Any accountant who says otherwise is being lazy IMO.

Not to mention things like 50K per employee for education 100% write off AND not taxable to beneficiary , employer-provided vehicles, transportation passes etc etc etc. Which Cs can take and S's can't.

There are lot of advantages to the C but the overall cost and complexity pushes a lot away.

 

[Zebo]

This x 1000.

They are throwing some scraps - what so you think warehousing people in section 8 housing, unemployment, and such is about? As an added bonus keeps em dumb and desperate too so they don't understand to demand larger % of their labor when they do finally work.

 

[Zebo]

There are lot of advantages to the C but the overall cost and complexity pushes a lot away.

Yeah. All I do is turn in receipts. I'm lucky my dad does it all for me or I'd be fucked. I've seen the stuff he has me signing... every month stacks end of year more stacks.:'( I don't even look at it carefully because I don't know what I'm looking at but I trust him to do right by me.

 

[Blintok]

The rich from the right will not be happy until they each get to incorporate themselves and ship their virtual corporate selves overseas in some obscure tax sheltered island in the middle of nowhere, while they sit in their mansions in terra firma USA living the good life net tax-free...wait a minute...oh shit....somebody just told me they're already doing that. My bad. (Kranky's post above).

oh you mean like Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38378992/ns/politics/


and lets not forget Charles Rangel (another democrat that forgets to pay taxes)

"Ever notice that those who endorse high taxes and those who actually pay them aren’t the same people? Consider the curious case of Ways and Means Chairman Charlie Rangel, who is leading the charge for a new 5.4-percentage point income tax surcharge and recently called it “the moral thing to do.” About his own tax liability he seems less, well, fervent."

 

[Darwin333]

Can your business buy you a 'Cadillac HC plan' w/o providing it to all employees with an S? No. But can with a C. Can an S fully deduct the costs of any medical reimbursement plan? No. But can with a C. Hardly a legacy, it's the way to go. Any accountant who says otherwise is being lazy IMO.

Not to mention things like 50K per employee for education 100% write off AND not taxable to beneficiary , employer-provided vehicles, transportation passes etc etc etc. Which Cs can take and S's can't.

Damn, I need to look into this. Please kind sir, tell me more.

 

[Darwin333]

That is not a logical reason to arbitrarily take money away from someone based on some magical amount of income.



Again, you're just saying that the top earners are keeping more. That's not a logical reason to steal the money they've earned. It's just typical class warfare.

So your argument is that lower income and middle class taxes should be damn near abolished so that they are paying the same effective rate as the rich fuckers?

The really sad part is this argument is nothing but a damned diversion and both of your "clubs" have sold it to you quite effectively. We keep arguing about $250K being rich and then in the same post how Buffet pays less than his secretary.

Pass a damned bill making a new tax bracket for $5M+ and tax the shit out of them and AFTER that is done and we are getting 95% of the revenue that taxing $250K+ would, then we can argue about the rest of it.

I really really want to see either side argue that those making $5M+ a year will be devastated by increasing their taxes to what us common folk pay (as a percentage of income). Naw, I got a better idea, lets argue about the people that will contribute relatively nothing and end up leaving shit the way it is.

 

[Acanthus]

This is just the usual "sock it to the rich!" tripe. Nobody has presented ANY logical reason why someone who earns more than some arbitrary figure (250 thousand, 1 million, 5 million) is less deserving of a tax cut than someone making less than that figure. Just because someone earns more doesn't mean we need to steal more of their money and give it to people who do nothing to earn it.

That hard core left wing think tank... Moody's... Disagrees with you. Which policies benefit who in this list?

 

[Darwin333]

People seem to forget the "rich" dont stuff their money into a matress. It is put into a bank. Which then dishes it out in the form of loans to people to build homes, business, cars, buy products. Or they invest into business. Taxing them is an opportunity cost on that money. Instead of going into a bank or business, it is put into the inefficient monster of big govt.

Shrug, Bennie will take care of the banks. Rich fuckers are not needed for that anymore.

 

[Acanthus]

Also explain the following:

Where are those periods of explosive growth after MASSIVE (20%+) cuts in the top marginal rate?

 

[Darwin333]

That hard core left wing think tank... Moody's... Disagrees with you. Which policies benefit who in this list?

While I think your argument is a good one I can't help but question the source.

Would you like to purchase some MBS that Moody's has rated AAA quality, almost impossible to lose money on investments? If so I can sell you some, give you a real good deal.

Why does ANYONE still trust those assholes?

 

[Acanthus]

While I think your argument is a good one I can't help but question the source.

Would you like to purchase some MBS that Moody's has rated AAA quality, almost impossible to lose money on investments? If so I can sell you some, give you a real good deal.

Why does ANYONE still trust those assholes?

The right loves pro business sources

I couldn't find a study from Goldman

 

[Acanthus]

Congressional Democrats Rejecting Obama Tax Compromise

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tax_cuts

This is big news. I would be very happy if the dems stood their ground on this one.

Edit: wow they changed both the title and some of the content of that article, and didnt even put "updated" in the article anywhere.

neat...

 

[The-Noid]

If your c-corporation is profitable but does not pay any dividends for an extended period of time, the IRS is likely to conclude that some of the salaries paid to owners are really disguised dividends. The IRS can disallow some or all of the salary deductions, resulting in a large tax bill plus interest and penalties. If you have a c-corporation, your best bet is to make sure all salaries are not significantly higher than industry standards, and to pay out at least some dividends each year.

 

[sportage]

I am just so pleased progressive democrats are giving Obama hell.
Or should I say HELL NO!
Keith Obermann had a guest on 12/9, that had warned way back during the 2008 election that Obama would wimp out when up against the republican machine. He was sooo right. His guests told how Obama had wimped out on most, if not all fights for the middle class in his early years. Worth podcasting Thursdays msnbc countdown show and give a listen. Obama exposed for what he.... isn't. All I know is.. this last Obama stunt is the deal breaker for my support in 2012. (I always was a Hillary fan anyway)
Hopefully.. Obama will be a one term president. Sure, a republican in office 2012 would be not good, but there is something about a person/leader that shows weakness, and just plain disgust towards his own base, that turns most stomachs.
He's got to go in 2012. Period!
We made history electing him in 2008. Time to move on...