PROUD TO BE AMERICAN...read...

[HaVoC]

Okay,

As usual the current wave of American bashing in this forum is in full-effect. I realize Anandtech is a very global community and I appreciate the input from all the non-Americans here.

Lately, in threads it seems pretty fashionable to rag on Americans, especially ones who travel to other countries, etc. I wholly concede that their are many American tourists that conduct themselves in a despicable manner when travelling abroad. HOWEVER, I assert there are just as many nice, appreciative tourists who don't raise any ire. Since they "blend" in and are polite, those of you who complain about the boorish American tourists never really notice the nice ones. So, at least appreciate the fact that some Americans are visiting your country and pumping valuable money in your economy.

As for our hated foreign policy...well I guess that's the position we must deal with when we are the leaders of the free world. It seems to be many critics of American foreign intervention would like us to return to our shameful xenophobic/non-intervention days of the 1920s and before WWII. Maybe we should let everyone else try to prevent tyranny, povery and general bad deeds from happening outside U.S. borders.

Last, my (abridged) story...I am a first generation American whose parents immigrated from India in the early 80's. I'm a PROUD U.S. citizen and I enjoy every day I live in this great nation of ours. I've gotten a lot of oppurtunity to succeed because of the greatness of my nation. So, in the interest of discussion I just wanted to say that I'm proud to be American and I'm not your typical "dumb" American that many here so love to stereotype. Maybe you can ask me why...

And...if America is so bad...why are so many people trying SO hard to come here? Go to any developing nation and see how many people would like to come to the U.S. if they were given the oppurtunity.

 

[thereds]

ABCD, eh?

 

[tinneric]

Just remeber if anyone wants to bash Americans that their culture can be bashed too. I have run into many spoiled brat snob Europeans, and many conceded Asians, Russians who think they are better than anyone else and yes Americans that were a pain in the A$$. So before you begin bashing remember your culture whatever it is is far from perfect. If you don't like the way things are her in America, stay the He11 Out!!! This is the most wonderful place to live in the world, if it wasn't why the He11 does everyone move here?

 

[thereds]

I always thought that the best place to live in was Europe, not eastern Europe, mind you. As to why does everyone move here? I'd say better opportunities and that does not in turn make it the best place to live in.

 

[AndrewR]

God Bless the U.S.A.!

 

[tinneric]

thereds,

It most certainly does make it a better place to live, with opportunities come income and with income comes a higher standard of living.

 

[thereds]

Not necessarily. Its too conservative here in the USA. Don't think I am complaining.
And yes, opportunities do bring in the income. I agree with that.

 

[kami]

<< As usual the current wave of American bashing in this forum is in full-effect. >>


I only saw one thread...maybe you can point me in the direction of the rest?

You can save your patriotic speeches...it won't change the minds of the people who made those posts, and it's just hurting the situation...not improving it. IMO anyway...

 

[HaVoC]

Proud to get some support from my peeps, tinneric and AndrewR!

Any country can be bashed for various reasons. I just think America gets unfairly singled too often. Oh well, we'll survive!

 

[Killbat]

We got nukes. Lots of big, shiny nukes.

 

[Ranger X]

Yes, we have nukes. Now to find a way to nuke Bush without hurting anyone else.

 

[StageLeft]

I think I'm gonna barf.

 

[tinneric]

Notice no one bashed our Canadian friends up north.

 

[StageLeft]

Thats cause we're perfect...and we know it

 

[tinneric]

Hey your beer there is almost as good as the stuff we get here in Oregon and the fishing rules there.

 

[StageLeft]

&quot;almost as good&quot; Bah! Actually I find I drink a lot of Fosters from Australia - go figure

 

[luv2chill]

IMHO...

It's fine to be proud of where you live/where you came from, but I think it crosses the line when you go so far as to say that the place you live is superior or makes you superior. Many of you have never even left this continent. If I were you I'd withhold judgement until you have something to back it up with.

I've been to several European countries, and while I prefer my way of life here, there were many many good things about each country I visited... I came away from the experience with an increased appreciation for the way others live. With our capitalistic economy Americans buy into the &quot;accumulate stuff=happiness&quot; ideal, which more often than not proves to be a double-edged sword. Many people in Europe had very little comparitively, yet led very happy and fulfilled lives. Of course you can't say that for everyone, but I do have some experiences to back up my views. I can appreciate the European way of life. It's not any worse or better. It's DIFFERENT.

When you take patriotism too far, you can tend to feel you're really superior. <Flame-Proof Suit> Nazi Germany springs to mind.</Flame-Proof Suit>

None of us are any different than any other person on this Earth. The sooner people start realizing that, the better off we'll all be.

l2c

 

[AndrewR]

Contrary to your assertions, luv2chill, I lived abroad for a year and visited 13 countries during my tenure there. While I would like to live in Europe again, there are many ways in which the US is a better place to live. Similarly, there are ways in which it is better abroad.

One interesting thing that I learned is that race relations in this country are far better than they are in Europe, where open racism is common and virulent. The relations between the white French and the North Africans are extremely acrimonious, and I personally witnessed four or five incidents of crime perpetrated by North Africans and none by white French. Perhaps that is a reason for the virulence. Also, the history of the French in North Africa is still an open wound and contributes to the atmosphere.

Similarly, the race relations in Germany are far from perfect with a large contingent of Vietnamese &quot;guest workers&quot; left over from the East German days. Incidents involving them and native Germans are common.

Yes, there are many different aspects of each country around the world. However, it is undeniable that the US enjoys the greatest economy the world has ever seen and is the most powerful nation in history. Our system of government has spawned freedom movements around the world and remains stable and strong despite even the latest &quot;crisis&quot; in Florida.

 

[luv2chill]

<< Contrary to your assertions, luv2chill, I lived abroad for a year... blah blah blah >>



Where did I ever assert that AndrewR never went abroad? Go ahead and check. I never said it.

But aside from that, you missed the point of my post. I never proposed that European countries were much better places to live. Never did I even touch upon race relations. EVERY country has its share of problems.

And I never said it wasn't OK to have pride in the country in which one lives. A certain amount of that is a good thing, but when it comes down to the point where you feel superior as a person *or as a people* just because of the country you happen to live in, you've taken it too far.

Yes, the US has some great things about it. But it also has its fair share of problems just like anywhere else. To pick and choose individual issues and say &quot;well we're better because of x, y , and z&quot; makes no sense because someone else will say &quot;well WE'RE better because of a, b, and c.&quot;

Wouldn't it be more helpful to think of yourself as a resident of the entire Earth? Yes, you are a citizen of, and reside in the USA, but that's like having a state drivers license--it is issued by the state in which you reside but is valid anywhere.

Maybe I'm being too abstract. But it just seems like you guys take nationalism to the extreme. It would be like me saying &quot;KANSAS RULES, and all the other states suck.&quot; (something I would never dream of saying...).

I'll say it again. Take pride in the country, state, and municipality you live in. Contribute to the good of where you're living, but don't close yourself off to the fact that other places might be just as good, just in different ways. A little bit of humbleness goes a long way.

l2c

 

[Regine]

I'd like to be an American citizen
Oh well, hopefully I'll get my citizenship soon - all I have to do is take the oath.

I don't know why everybody bashes this country all the time. It is a great country to live in. There is so much space, unless you live in big cities it isn't crowded at all. Taxes are decent, even though everybody bitches about them.
I don't know about all of you - but I like it here, I like it here better than in Europe. And even though I will always be a Bavarian/German in my heart, this is where I live now and where I want to stay. And I am going to be a proud citizen. Even though I might bitch about it every once in a while, I am grateful to be living here, and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

 

[Playitagainsam]

After living in the U.S. for three years, I'm not impressed. There are other, better places, IMHO. For example, I'm not going to raise children in this particular country. Children need an education, and that's something kind of hard to come by in the U.S.

Things might be cheaper than anywhere else, but all Americans do is run after money. It's normal that they keep this level (and everything's made in China, Mexico and Taiwan, anyway... even cars are made in Canada!)

As far as religion, I've seen already too much fanaticism for such a developed country. Doubting evolution, science, wow... time for a reality check! And too much Christian bigotry (of Protestant flavor, too).

Racial issues and/or ethnic groups? Oh, boy! don't get me started! I knew nothing about racism until I came to the U.S. Thank God for double standard, so you can bash the French and the Serbs, while maintaining you're the purest on Earth...

By the way, in one of those &quot;other&quot; threads, someone was complaining about the damn immigrants who don't speak English... dudes, you DON'T have a national language! Other countries have taken legal measures - some in the Constitution, some in other arrangements - to establish an official language of the land. The United States doesn't... so why can't I speak Hungarian, Basque, or Urdu for that matter?

Political correctness.

Senseless lawsuits (it has to do with the obsession about money).

Totally screwy attitude towards sex (so oral sex is less intimate than kissing? ... ah, and oral sex isn't &quot;sex&quot;, right...)

Tasteless food, stuffed with hormones, synthetic materials, corn starch. Result = &quot;The land of the Fat&quot;, as Prodigy actually wanted to re-name their album, before the U.S. release.

&quot;War on drugs&quot;.

Largest national debt in the world.

The world's largest propaganda machine, repeating ad nauseam the message that &quot;we're the best&quot;. Brainwashing on a global scale.

Dubious foreign politics - Iraq? Bosnia? Serbia? How about Vietnam? Or supporting the Shah of Iran? More &quot;Wag the Dog&quot; than &quot;Where Eagles Dare&quot;!

Now, since I've mentioned kids. I would like my kids to have as many nationalities as possible, to really travel around the world and see for themselves what is the best place to live in. I'll do the same, meantime. But living in the United States really gave me a broad vision of Europe - and that's where my heart is.

Go ahead and contradict me, I'm really curious.

 

[Aquaman]

Can't we all just get along

ps. Tinneric........ I had a really nice Honey beer when I was visiting Banden Or. a couple years back

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[HaVoC]

<< It's fine to be proud of where you live/where you came from, but I think it crosses the line when you go so far as to say that the place you live is superior or makes you superior. Many of you have never even left this continent. If I were you I'd withhold judgement until you have something to back it up with.

Maybe I'm being too abstract. But it just seems like you guys take nationalism to the extreme. It would be like me saying &quot;KANSAS RULES, and all the other states suck.&quot; (something I would never dream of saying...). >>

Sounds to me like you missed MY point. I'm not asserting that America is SUPERIOR to every country there and everyone who doesn't live here is a moron. RATHER, I am simply stating my national pride and offering some alternate viewpoints.

BTW, I was born in India have visited Europe, Suriname-SA, Mexico and Canada.

 

[HaVoC]

<< Now, since I've mentioned kids. I would like my kids to have as many nationalities as possible, to really travel around the world and see for themselves what is the best place to live in. I'll do the same, meantime. But living in the United States really gave me a broad vision of Europe - and that's where my heart is. >>

Well your scathing critiques of the U.S. suggest you should move there. Yet you STAY! Wonder why?


<<
Go ahead and contradict me, I'm really curious. >>

No thanks, you've already done an excellent job of that yourself.

 

[CliffC]

luv2

Don't take too much of it to heart because it's mostly just &quot;cliche&quot;. Say take a thread where somebody rants about some cop that is doing 65 in a 25, no blues going, and he's not even responding to a call and broadsides a van and kills 3 kids and their mom and gets off with suspension without pay and he's subsequently found not guilty of anything.
You can bet your bottom dollar that some DOLT is gonna profess that &quot;America has the greatest justice system in the world&quot;! Now it's not because he has EVER had any experience or knowledge of any OTHER justice system in the world but it's &quot;cliche&quot; to say it!

Same goes for saying that most immigrants come here because here they can work hard and achieve great success in America. Bullsnot.
Most immigrants come here because of the letters and phone calls they have recieved from the family members, friends, aquaintences who have got here and have found out that if you were not born here then Americas govment will give you the MEANS to do anything you want and you actually don't have to really work hard at all for it. Oh and if you happen to live south of Americas border you can come here at age 18, claim 6 dependents, have no taxes removed from your pay, live off of public assistance, send all monies home and in three or four years go back south of the border and live off of those earnings for most the rest of your life.
But you will always have some DOLT that will claim that all immigrants are coming here to &quot;work hard to achieve the American dream&quot;! Not because he ACTUALLY knows that's what they are doing but because it's &quot;cliche&quot; to say it.

The cop example is made up and not true but you can exchange it for any travesty in American justice and you'll get the picture.
The south of the border story is true except all 27 that worked for me was not 18.

There are great parts and terrible parts to all justice systems throughout the world and there are many immigrants that come to this country starting out just like any other american, with nothing more but the want and desire to work hard and the chance to provide the best life they can for them and their family.

But if someone saying something bad or exspressing their opinion that you don't agree with has you whining and crying and trying to defend that which you can't with PETTY cliches then I believe therapy is much needed.

If you fill your life with petty nothingness you'll never have any room for substance.

Oh and HaVoC if you wanted to come back to playitagainsam with a snappy one liner it should have been &quot;Dude, you hit the nail on the head&quot; because every sentence he wrote is true in America everyday. Or are you refuting what he posted?