Protests over wind power farms

[Schadenfroh]

Sometimes, you just cannot please everyone...

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/01/133384379/hawaiis-big-wind-power-project-stirs-up-fans-foes

The Problem:

Almost all of Hawaii's electricity now comes from a few massive generators, which burn oil imported on a never-ending line of tanker ships.
...
The catalyst for Hawaii's unprecedented push to rid itself of oil came in 2008, when prices spiked. Hawaiians felt it at the gas pump, at the supermarket and in record-high electric bills — which even before the crisis were the highest in the nation.

The Plan:

By law, 70 percent of Hawaii's energy must come from renewable sources by 2030.

Hawaii is hoping to build up to 200 more of these windmills on the small and windy islands of Lanai and Molokai.

But, here come the protesters:

Protesters gathered at a recent informal legislative meeting at the state capital.

It is ugly:

"So you tell me, if that was in your backyard whether you'd object or not," Kaye said. "NIMBY is relative."

It also angers the gods:

for native Hawaiians like himself, the wind is a revered god. "So until the state realizes what they're dealing with, that it's not a commodity, it's a cultural resource that Hawaiians have high regard for, part of our heritage, then we're in for a train wreck here," Rittie says.

And even payments do not help:

Kaye and others are unwavering in their opposition, despite an effort to assemble a generous public benefits package — including a share of the wind farm's profits, not unlike the oil payments Alaskans get.

Not only will it help with the power problem, but they are even offering to pay the population like in Alaska (which also does not make any sense).

Would nuclear power help solve the island's woes? Sometimes I worry about where our country is heading when we demand more energy, want low prices, yet citizens are unwilling to accept the negatives. This NIMBY mentality has to end. The feds manufacture nuclear weapons less than 20 miles from where I sleep at night, it does not bother me one bit.

 

[gotsmack]

Why not wave and geothermal? Hawaii should be prime grounds for both.

 

[PottedMeat]

Why not wave and geothermal? Hawaii should be prime grounds for both.

maybe theres a water god and volcano god that would get pissed off.

 

[WHAMPOM]

NMBY??? Don't you mean the Power Company Mogols funding legislation to hamstring alternative power. Profit for them, none for you!

 

[Kadarin]

These idiots must think power magically comes out of the electrical outlet or something. Either that or they really want us to go back to being a pretechnological agrarian society.

 

[Throckmorton]

We have wind turbines on Maui and there were a lot of protests before they were built. I think mostly California transplants complaining about ruining their view.

I think they look awesome. I hiked up to them the other day.

 

[rcpratt]

Turn off the power and see how long they last. I'm sick of these fucking retards.

 

[Throckmorton]

I think it's worth posting this other opinion from the article:

Back at the wind farm on Oahu, First Wind's Kaluhiwa says getting power from the wind is perfectly suited to Hawaii's respect for the environment.
"Being from Hawaii, native Hawaiian, it's all about, to me anyway, how we tie in our values as a people, how we use today's technology with the values we've grown up with," Kaluhiwa says. "So this is a beautiful marriage of the two, I think."
He adds that the wind-power plan is pono — a Hawaiian word meaning "righteous" or "morally proper."

 

[iGas]

Why not wave and geothermal? Hawaii should be prime grounds for both.

Would be prohibitively expensive.

Wind power is considered much cheaper dollar per KWH compare geothermal or wave power.

An article I just read recently claimed that China ramping up coal power plant because it is cheap at $0.02/KWH while wind is $0.20/KWH.

Another important problem with wind that isn't factored in is that wind is not constant, and wind tend to be low when you need the power most. Wind power power generation is irregular, while coal/oil/gas/nuclear is constant (coal/oil/gas can be control for peak & low power consumption period).

 

[Throckmorton]

I've heard that geothermal isn't practical in Hawaii, for whatever geological reasons.

Wind is good here because the trade winds blow so much of the time. Of course you can't have 100% wind power but it can supplement solar and fossil fuel.

The leeward sides of the islands are sunny the vast majority of the time, so solar is even better here.

 

[Kirby]

I was in Oahu for Christmas vacation (my dad was working there on a power plant no less ). I thought they looked pretty cool.

I do remember driving along the coast and seeing signs about eminent domain abuses. I wonder if this has anything to do with it.

 

[lothar]

Wind power kills birds. :whiste:

 

[EagleKeeper]

Wind power kills birds. :whiste:

Walk around wind farms; count how many birds are dead.
Then count how many are along highways.

Maybe we should remove vehicles. Save fuel and birds.

Wave generated power would work well. Drop the turbines at the entrances to coves/bays. mark wehre they are at so idiotic surfers do not go into that area. (Although you know there wil be some jsut to test).

 

[Texashiker]

These idiots must think power magically comes out of the electrical outlet or something.

Yea, why do they need wind turbines? All you have to do is flip a switch and the lights turn on, or plug something into the wall and the wall generators all the power you need.

Sometimes you just have to wonder about people. Kinda like people complaining about the high price of gas, but offshore drilling rigs are banned in florida - you dont want to mess with the pretty horizon. People would rather not see drilling rigs, but pay a fortune for food and gas.

 

[Brainonska511]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/science/earth/31meters.html?ref=science

You should see that article on smart meters in California. People are fucking nuts - electromagnetic hypersensitivity and bull like that as reasons for not installing wireless smart meters to better measure power usage (so the company that generates it knows when it would be best to turn on all the plants) and eventually provide for off peak and on peak pricing.

 

[PeshakJang]

That's the problem with the environmental left... *nothing* will ever satisfy them to the point that they aren't complaining, until the world is run purely on happiness and magic.

That's why it's so fucking stupid for the government to stand up and say, "We want xxx renewable power by 20XX"... because the very people they are trying to please are the same people that will be filing the first lawsuits to stop it.

Suing to block wind farms? Check.

Suing to block/remove solar farms? Check.

Bitching and screaming about ethanol hurting poor starving people 10,000 miles away? Check.

Suing/lobbying for decades to block nuclear plant construction? Check.

There is literally no source of power that will meet the criteria to be acceptable for the environmental left, yet we continue to throw tax dollars down a black hole to try and satisfy them.

 

[LegendKiller]

We have wind turbines on Maui and there were a lot of protests before they were built. I think mostly California transplants complaining about ruining their view.

I think they look awesome. I hiked up to them the other day.

Wife and I stayed in Lahaina for 2 weeks last year. Drove by those things a dozen times and saw them while boating out to Molokini for snorkling. I think they look awesome and people should be proud of the step they represent.

 

[PeshakJang]

Wife and I stayed in Lahaina for 2 weeks last year. Drove by those things a dozen times and saw them while boating out to Molokini for snorkling. I think they look awesome and people should be proud of the step they represent.

Indiana has several hundred of them stuck just north of Lafayette right around the interstate, littered in farm fields. I don't know how much power they generate, but I would suspect quite a bit.

Actually improves the view... especially at night.

 

[Texashiker]

You should see that article on smart meters in California. .

Wow, just wow,,,, I dont know what to think about that

From the link posted above

environmental health campaigners who see the meters’ radio-frequency radiation — like emissions from cellphones and other common devices — as a health threat.

radio-frequency radiation? I dont guess those people have ever heard of "the sun" and know about the amount of radiation it puts out? Those people probably get more radiation from their microwave or computer then from the power meters.

 

[Brainonska511]

That's the problem with the environmental left... *nothing* will ever satisfy them to the point that they aren't complaining, until the world is run purely on happiness and magic.

Maybe you need to look more closely at who complains about what. This "environmental left" you bitch about, is not a unified movement. Different subgroups have different priorities. And I bet some of those subgroups support this current proposal for wind farms.

 

[Brainonska511]

radio-frequency radiation? I dont guess those people have ever heard of "the sun" and know about the amount of radiation it puts out? Those people probably get more radiation from their microwave or computer then from the power meters.

You should see the extreme right's side of the same issue of smart meters too. Privacy - since the power company would know what time of day you use the most or least power. Or how a burglar could hack into it and see when you're home. But they fail to realize that it would require at least a week of monitoriing of the meter to figure out what the baseline is. While the old fashion way of just driving by is still available.

Or how many of them use credit cards, frequent shopper cards, allow 3rd party cookies on their browser, use Facebook and other social media sites....

Extreme left and right together on one stupid issue.

 

[ericlp]

well, being from hawaii and eventually moving back..

From my understanding they are building these and shipping the power off to Oahu. Kinda like what Oregon does with California. Except it's 100% power! Nothing goes to the island that it's actually on. Worst yet Hawaii (big island) pays around 47 cents a kWhour! That's insane! Reason? Because ALL of hawaii runs of diesel generation. Other then solar and wind. They actually do have a geothermal plants but the volcano is not always active. Kinda comes and goes so it's not really reliable or feasible to build them here.

So there you have it! As for the protesters? Shrug they will get use to it I guess. Maybe they will go find another cell tower they can protest against.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Remember that there is this crazy alternative. SUe less damned energy. Light bulbs are a start along with better insulated homes. But this country has a long way to go.

 

[drebo]

Why not nuclear? Cheaper and more plentiful than wind.

 

[lothar]

Walk around wind farms; count how many birds are dead.
Then count how many are along highways.

Maybe we should remove vehicles. Save fuel and birds.

Wave generated power would work well. Drop the turbines at the entrances to coves/bays. mark wehre they are at so idiotic surfers do not go into that area. (Although you know there wil be some jsut to test).

Tell that to the environmentalists, not me.