Protesters rally to end wind power

[Jaskalas]

I for one sleep with the sound of my PC and its noisy fans nearby, and once familiar with it - it works to drown out other fainter noises. Perhaps she just needs to add noise to her environment. To, in effect, drown out the noise that bothers her by replacing it with a familiar sound.

 

[DrPizza]

The valid gripes I've heard concerning wind turbines are bird kill and that fact that they're an eyesore. But I haven't read or heard of any reputable studies establishing a causal link between wind turbines and human health problems.

The bird kill isn't a valid gripe - iirc, there was only one windmill that was ever a problem - and it was built right in the flight path of some sort of migratory bird that flies at night. If you look around the bases of windmills, you don't find dead birds. It's not as if they're made of plate glass windows that the birds stupidly fly into.

Eyesore is an opinion. Some of us find them to be magnificent to see on the horizon. I've drive 20 or 30 miles out of my way just to drive past them.

And, people get sick. People get sick sometimes for no known reason. It's a normal human reaction to try to figure out what's new in their surroundings, and mistake the correlation (for them) as a cause. i.e. infants get shots, infants get autism. Maybe the shots cause autism! (Since proven false.) This case is likely no different. The woman got sick, windmills were new, so she blames the windmills because she doesn't have anything else to blame. I'd gladly allow a windmill to be built in my backyard (if I get free electricity for giving up that little bit of space.)

 

[Jaskalas]

The bird kill isn't a valid gripe - iirc, there was only one windmill that was ever a problem - and it was built right in the flight path of some sort of migratory bird that flies at night. If you look around the bases of windmills, you don't find dead birds. It's not as if they're made of plate glass windows that the birds stupidly fly into.

It wasn't that hard to look. WTF did you say that?

[PDF] bird mortality fact sheet - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

wind turbine rotors kill an estimated. 33000 birds annually

 

[randomrogue]

If you read that link though it says that cats kill a couple hundred million and communication towers kill 5 million. You have to take things in some form of context.

 

[bfdd]

I do not understand how it is possible to "hear" wifi. Have you tried to see if he reacts the same way to something that he thinks is a router, but is not broadcasting or not really powered on?

Dude, I don't know either. I thought he was fucking bullshitting me for the longest time. He first told me about it when we were shitfaced outside a bar, so I thought he was kidding. Then we were bbqing at another friends house, every time the cordless phone would ring he'd say it before it rung and he refused to go in the house for to long because of the wireless router. It was really weird dude.

 

[Oric]

If something can be "heard", it can also be isolated ...

 

[BladeVenom]

First I've heard of wind turbine syndrome. Dr Nina Pierpont seems to be the source of this new syndrome.
http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...identifies-wind-turbine-syndrome-1766254.html

Something else to consider, the Bucha effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_effect

 

[bfdd]

btw I'm not against these wind farms or anything, I just find it funny when these kinds of noises bother people.

 

[Jaskalas]

If you read that link though it says that cats kill a couple hundred million and communication towers kill 5 million. You have to take things in some form of context.

I concede your point, given the context.

Still, I had to point out it wasn't just one isolated incident.

 

[Throckmorton]

If you read that link though it says that cats kill a couple hundred million and communication towers kill 5 million. You have to take things in some form of context.

To be fair there are a lot more communication towers and cats in America than wind turbines...

 

[randomrogue]

Absolutely. I'm sure we could do a per capita look at it all but for the most part I was just pointing out that 30K is nothing compared to other sources. There was a number somewhere in there for the number of estimated birds. I think it said 10B with 20B in the spring.

 

[Daedalus685]

There are some valid gripes about the wind farms. People don't like the look of them generally, they lower property values accordingly simply due to that. They do kill birds, but not particularly many more of them than any large structure does.

These "stop the wind farms" folk are rampant where I grew up on lake Erie as well. They spout bull shit almost entirely, and have no grasp of the science and constant compromises required in energy production at all. I have a pamphlet from them that goes on about how the EM waves are causing everything from bee death to cancer. This of course despite the fact that there is less radiation from an entire farm of these than a wireless hot spot.

It is just stirred up propaganda rage taking advantage of the fact that people are profoundly stupid and easy to stir up. The only legitimate complaint is that of property values which ironically will be made worse the more they whine and get others on their side.

Classic NIMBY. They have no desire to debate the pros and cons. They do not care that producing energy requires some compromises in either space efficiency, cost, pollution, etc. This is one of those issues that profoundly pisses me off as I tried to take the initiate and talk to the leaders in my area about what they were worried about. All I got back was how my physics degree makes me part of the problem...

Edit: On actual health effects. Don't underestimate the crippling effect living near something that pisses you off can cause. The farms themselves could be entirely innate but if enough rage is directed towards their existence the stress of those poor sods is going to go through the roof.

 

[sandorski]

I suppose this could be a real medical issue. Given the rarity of it and the greater Need of Society, rather than banning Wind Farms, some kind of Compensation or special noise cancelling gadgetry should be offered to people affected by this. Compensation will certainly draw out all kinds of scammers though, so it would need to be structured very carefully.

 

[Leros]

I used to play baseball at a field that was a few blocks from a small wind farm (about 10 mills). I never once heard the mills even on a windy day.

 

[monovillage]

Wind Turbine Syndrome
http://www.windturbinesyndrome.com/

Bat kills.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=wind-turbines-kill-bats
http://www.fort.usgs.gov/batswindmills/
PDF warning http://www.batsandwind.org/pdf/ultrasoundem.pdf

Bird kills
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...r-bird-kills/2011/08/25/gIQAP0bVlJ_story.html
http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/releases/110907.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/us-wind-energy-cranes-idUSTRE76D76I20110714
http://www.thecypresstimes.com/arti...OSECUTED_FOR_KILLING_ENDANGERED_SPECIES/46869

Yes I know that cats etc. kill more birds, that white nose syndrome will kill more bats. Why should eco.... errr green... errr enviromental...? Well whatever. why should wind power is get a pass on breaking laws that other utilities have to abide by or get penalized for?

 

[rcpratt]

Wind Turbine Syndrome
http://www.windturbinesyndrome.com/

Bat kills.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=wind-turbines-kill-bats
http://www.fort.usgs.gov/batswindmills/
PDF warning http://www.batsandwind.org/pdf/ultrasoundem.pdf

Bird kills
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...r-bird-kills/2011/08/25/gIQAP0bVlJ_story.html
http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/releases/110907.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/us-wind-energy-cranes-idUSTRE76D76I20110714
http://www.thecypresstimes.com/arti...OSECUTED_FOR_KILLING_ENDANGERED_SPECIES/46869

Yes I know that cats etc. kill more birds, that white nose syndrome will kill more bats. Why should eco.... errr green... errr enviromental...? Well whatever. why should wind power is get a pass on breaking laws that other utilities have to abide by or get penalized for?

Guess what, nukes kill birds as well. They fly right into our cooling tower.

Call the waaaahmbulance.

 

[shortylickens]

I can understand how this would happen if the turbines interfered with your sleep. Lack of sleep causes all sorts of nasty health effects and quality of life problems. However, I an skeptical of that being the case here. A few samplings of the audible noise from the turbines should be able to clear that right up. I'd like to see what frequency and amplitude these turbines produce at her home.

I worked a twelve hour night shift at Hynix and was utterly miserable for 2 years because of sleep deprivation. If I thought complaining to my congressman would have helped, you better believe I'd try it.

Ditto the protesters. Its probably bullshit, they are likely losing sleep from some other means, but when your brain is mush its hard to get that point across.

 

[DrPizza]

It wasn't that hard to look. WTF did you say that?

[PDF] bird mortality fact sheet - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

33000 birds per year, which includes the older problematic wind turbines such as at Altamont which spin far more rapidly. Modern turbines spin much more slowly. 33000 birds, and there are far more turbines than that. A new, modern windmill *might* result in one or two bird deaths per year. That's it. Just a few 10's of thousands seems like a lot, until you realize how common birds are out in the country. Billions upon billions of them.

I believe the statistic that at least 100 million birds die after flying into windows. That's over 3000 times the mortality of windmills. Cars kill more birds than windmills. Not to mention cats, which kill an awful lot.

 

[Darwin333]

It wasn't that hard to look. WTF did you say that?

[PDF] bird mortality fact sheet - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

I have no clue how many birds we have in the US but 33,000, although it sounds high, doesn't sound like it is a significant percentage of "birds". Now if it is killing mostly a particular species of bird that is close to or is endangered that is a huge problem but otherwise it just doesn't sound like that big of a deal. A single damn has to kill 10 times the animals as all the windmills in the country (pulled out of my ass but I would bet I am on the low side).

Hell, we can attribute more than 33K cases of cancer a year to coal fired power plants.

 

[monovillage]

Exxon Mobil was fined $600,000 for causing 85 bird deaths. As the article says that's about $7,000 per bird death. Since wind farms are estimated to cause 500,000 or more bird deaths, do you think green energy will have to pay the same as Exxon Mobil?

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/exxon-fined-for-causing-bird-deaths/

 

[cubby1223]

Somewhere read a local-ish article about windfarms, the sunlight shining through the blades onto houses causing a pulsating effect that is difficult for some people to tolerate.

 

[cubby1223]

Classic NIMBY. They have no desire to debate the pros and cons.

Just curious, do you live next to a wind farm? Would you ever buy a house next to a wind farm?

 

[Broheim]

Exxon Mobil was fined $600,000 for causing 85 bird deaths. As the article says that's about $7,000 per bird death. Since wind farms are estimated to cause 500,000 or more bird deaths, do you think green energy will have to pay the same as Exxon Mobil?

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/exxon-fined-for-causing-bird-deaths/

you honestly can't see the difference?

 

[monovillage]

There's no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid questioners.

 

[PingSpike]

There are some valid gripes about the wind farms. People don't like the look of them generally, they lower property values accordingly simply due to that. They do kill birds, but not particularly many more of them than any large structure does.

These "stop the wind farms" folk are rampant where I grew up on lake Erie as well. They spout bull shit almost entirely, and have no grasp of the science and constant compromises required in energy production at all. I have a pamphlet from them that goes on about how the EM waves are causing everything from bee death to cancer. This of course despite the fact that there is less radiation from an entire farm of these than a wireless hot spot.

It is just stirred up propaganda rage taking advantage of the fact that people are profoundly stupid and easy to stir up. The only legitimate complaint is that of property values which ironically will be made worse the more they whine and get others on their side.

Classic NIMBY. They have no desire to debate the pros and cons. They do not care that producing energy requires some compromises in either space efficiency, cost, pollution, etc. This is one of those issues that profoundly pisses me off as I tried to take the initiate and talk to the leaders in my area about what they were worried about. All I got back was how my physics degree makes me part of the problem...

Edit: On actual health effects. Don't underestimate the crippling effect living near something that pisses you off can cause. The farms themselves could be entirely innate but if enough rage is directed towards their existence the stress of those poor sods is going to go through the roof.

Your rage comes because you assumed most people were halfway intelligent and capable of rational thought. Then you found out that at least the loudest ones are actually just selfish morons who filter information only by whether its what they want to hear or not.

Here's an even better one. A community near my work has been a farming community since...basically European people got settled in the area. A handful of people have moved there from out of state recently, probably because of the pristine views. Some of them are complaining that it smells like cow shit outside when the farmers spread manure. These people seem to think food comes from a star trek replicator, or at the very least that the fact they've been there for a while 6 months means the farmers are the problem. I submit that if these folks thought that farms didn't spread manure when they moved in they probably should be drowned in a pit of it! Instead these morons complain in the local paper opinion section every year because for some reason they keep spreading shit every year.