Protesters breach Iraq green zone

[Knowing]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/0...-parliament-demanding-end-to-corruption.html?

" The protesters were mostly supporters of the Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr, who has rallied his followers to push for demands and has largely supported Mr. Abadi’s promises, still unfulfilled, to improve how the government works. The ease with which they penetrated the rim of the Green Zone suggested that security forces were supportive of the protesters, as there were no reports of shots fired.

The Parliament was stormed after a session that had been scheduled for Saturday was postponed because a quorum could not be reached. Mr. Abadi had been expected to introduce several new ministers as part of a promise to overhaul his cabinet and fill it with technocrats instead of politicians beholden to a party or sect.

On Tuesday, Mr. Abadi gained approval for some of the new ministers, but only after a revolt from opposition lawmakers who had called for his ouster, even tossing water bottles at him as he entered the room.

It was unclear on Saturday afternoon how Mr. Abadi would respond, and how he would regain control over the country’s politics. "

No one should rest at the state department until they find the heinous youtube video responsible for this.

 

[LegendKiller]

Yet another foreign policy success for Obama.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yet another foreign policy success for Obama.

You really have lost it, huh? The situation in Iraq is the direct result of our invasion & none other.

Yeppers- spreading Free, Freedom & Liberty! at gunpoint to create a Capitalist Utopia. Or just to tear down Israel's rivals & set them to fighting among themselves. You figure it out.

 

[ivwshane]

Actually this sounds like good news to me. Don't we want the people of Iraq to have a vested interest in their government?

Or its this another moment for America to show its hypocrisy and complain about a countries citizens protesting (violently or not)?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You really have lost it, huh? The situation in Iraq is the direct result of our invasion & none other.

Yeppers- spreading Free, Freedom & Liberty! at gunpoint to create a Capitalist Utopia. Or just to tear down Israel's rivals & set them to fighting among themselves. You figure it out.

I have to defend LK here. Yes its part of George W's legacy that Trump has called a failure. While Trump hasn't given many foreign policy specific plans he has said he's in favor of letting others do the lifting and we use drones/bombs. Trump has also questioned why we insist bring democracy & infrastructure to places that don't want it.
Obama has agreed to send more troops 5k(?) to help Iraq which by the way things look it's going to end up being another failure.
LK can be real far off base but he's not that far off here.

 

[Jhhnn]

I have to defend LK here. Yes its part of George W's legacy that Trump has called a failure. While Trump hasn't given many foreign policy specific plans he has said he's in favor of letting others do the lifting and we use drones/bombs. Trump has also questioned why we insist bring democracy & infrastructure to places that don't want it.
Obama has agreed to send more troops 5k(?) to help Iraq which by the way things look it's going to end up being another failure.
LK can be real far off base but he's not that far off here.

More like 500 special forces as advisers & trainers.

At this point, it doesn't matter what Trump called it because it's the reality Obama & his successor must deal with. Pinning it on Obama is like blaming the riot on the clean up crew.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

More like 500 special forces as advisers & trainers.

At this point, it doesn't matter what Trump called it because it's the reality Obama & his successor must deal with. Pinning it on Obama is like blaming the riot on the clean up crew.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/25/politics/general-us-troops-iraq/index.html

Taking Mosul will require more fighters than the Iraqi security forces have and those new forces have to be trained," thereby requiring the additional U.S. presence.

A U.S. defense official told CNN earlier this week that the U.S. currently has between 4,500 and 5,000 troops in Iraq on a regular basis, about 1,000 over the stated limit of 3,800. This includes 200 Special Operations Forces whose presence is not publicly acknowledged

The President approved even more this week. Mission creep Obama is feeding it.
When Iraq said they want us out is when I gave up on them. They passed shitty laws to benefit one group, allowed obscene corruption, they have a thoroughly pissed off population and are incapable of asking for assistance in a gracious manner.
Obama is enabling this.

Ps I voted for Obama both times he ran.

 

[1prophet]

How soon till we see something like this?

 

[Jaskalas]

The defeat of the Iraqi army and the loss of Mosul + half the country to ISIS, meant that the only remaining half were the Iranian agents / loyalists. The Shiites.

Even if ISIS is eliminated, the damage is done. Any government operating from Baghdad is an Iranian vassal state.
And yes, their control is the best you can hope for now. What you're witnessing in the Green Zone is the Iraqi government falling into this reality.

 

[sandorski]

No problem dudes

Freedom!

 

[Victorian Gray]

How soon till we see something like this?

The next time you fight a war in Vietnam?

 

[1prophet]

The next time you fight a war in Vietnam?

As long a there are apologists like you in charge of governments history will keep repeating itself if not get completely worse while you live in a state of denial.

Last month was another anniversary. March 20, 2003 was the beginning of the second US war on Iraq. It was the night of “shock and awe” as bombs rained down on Iraqis. Like Vietnam, it was a war brought on by government lies and propaganda, amplified by a compliant media that repeated the lies without hesitation
.
Like Vietnam, the 2003 Iraq war was a disaster. More than 5,000 Americans were killed in the war and as many as a million or more Iraqis lost their lives. There is nothing to show for the war but destruction, trillions of dollars down the drain, and the emergence of al-Qaeda and ISIS.


Sadly, unlike after the Vietnam fiasco there has been almost no backlash against the US empire. In fact, President Obama has continued the same failed policy and Congress doesn’t even attempt to reign him in. On the very anniversary of that disastrous 2003 invasion, President Obama announced that he was sending US Marines back into Iraq! And not a word from Congress.


We’ve seemingly learned nothing.
There have been too many war anniversaries! We want an end to all these pointless wars. It’s time we learn from these horrible mistakes.

 

[Ventanni]

While I do see the 2003 US invasion of Iraq as a disaster, I do not see the rise of ISIS as a direct result of it. The rise of ISIS and other extremist groups is a direct result of decades of mismanagement, cronyism, injustice, and marginalization on part of Middle Eastern regimes. If the ME wants their countries back, they're going to have to learn to cooperate with each other and stop this tribalism nonsense.

I do agree though, it's time we end these pointless wars.

 

[kage69]

While I do see the 2003 US invasion of Iraq as a disaster, I do not see the rise of ISIS as a direct result of it. The rise of ISIS and other extremist groups is a direct result of decades of mismanagement, cronyism, injustice, and marginalization on part of Middle Eastern regimes. If the ME wants their countries back, they're going to have to learn to cooperate with each other and stop this tribalism nonsense.

I do agree though, it's time we end these pointless wars.

Well, that's where you'd be wrong. ISIS was made in Camp Bucca. You have some reading to do.

 

[LegendKiller]

More like 500 special forces as advisers & trainers.

At this point, it doesn't matter what Trump called it because it's the reality Obama & his successor must deal with. Pinning it on Obama is like blaming the riot on the clean up crew.

So how far back are you going to blame? At some point you have to own it.

 

[brycejones]

So how far back are you going to blame? At some point you have to own it.

You are correct, at this point the Iraqis own their messed up government. Blaming Obama is lame.

 

[Jaskalas]

You are correct, at this point the Iraqis own their messed up government. Blaming Obama is lame.

Who owns the blame?

Bush for wanting to invade / destroy Iraq.
Us for believing him, letting him do it.
Hillary for voting for it.
Iraqis for squandering it.
Obama for drawing down and not seeing ISIS emerge.

Plenty of blame to go around. But squarely it rests on Bush for pushing regime change. The lesson of Iraq is that you don't regime change just for the sake of regime change. You spend a lot of money, and kill a lot of people (including our own).... to achieve... ISIS? That's horrible.

Iraqis were better off under a murderous dictator rather than a genocidal horde.

Should we really expect some fledgling Democracy to survive the Middle East? That's like tossing a snowball into hell and wondering what happened to it. Or blaming it for melting. No... that stupid SOB who threw it in there is to blame.

 

[master_shake_]

 

[ivwshane]

Who owns the blame?

Bush for wanting to invade / destroy Iraq.
Us for believing him, letting him do it.
Hillary for voting for it.
Iraqis for squandering it.
Obama for drawing down and not seeing ISIS emerge.

Plenty of blame to go around. But squarely it rests on Bush for pushing regime change. The lesson of Iraq is that you don't regime change just for the sake of regime change. You spend a lot of money, and kill a lot of people (including our own).... to achieve... ISIS? That's horrible.

Iraqis were better off under a murderous dictator rather than a genocidal horde.

Should we really expect some fledgling Democracy to survive the Middle East? That's like tossing a snowball into hell and wondering what happened to it. Or blaming it for melting. No... that stupid SOB who threw it in there is to blame.

Better check your history.

 

[Ventanni]

Well, that's where you'd be wrong. ISIS was made in Camp Bucca. You have some reading to do.

I'm aware of Camp Bucca. I'm also aware of the mistake the US made when they disbanded the Iraqi army. But saying that ISIS was made in Camp Bucca is just not thinking big enough. The Middle East has a long history of Sunni/Shia squabbling, and ISIS is a Sunni organization that draws large quantities of recruits from both Syria and Iraq whose governments are Shia dominated. To me, I think the mission statement released in 2006 when ISIS was just getting its feet off the ground pretty much tells you the reasoning why they formed to begin with:

On 12 October 2006, the MSC united with three smaller groups and six Sunni Islamic tribes to form the "Mutayibeen Coalition". It swore by Allah "to rid Sunnis from the oppression of the rejectionists (Shi'ite Muslims) and the crusader occupiers ... to restore rights even at the price of our own lives ... to make Allah's word supreme in the world, and to restore the glory of Islam". A day later, the MSC declared the establishment of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI), comprising Iraq's six mostly Sunni Arab governorates. Abu Omar al-Baghdadi was announced as its emir, and al-Masri was given the title of Minister of War within the ISI's ten-member cabinet.

This was directly taken from Wikipedia, whose sources are all outlined at the bottom of the page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant#Foundation.2C_1999.E2.80.932006

So why do we have ISIS? Here's why:

1. Because Sunnis and Shias have been warring, marginalizing, and oppressing each other for centuries. Saddam Hussein was a Sunni leader who marginalized the Shias during his reign, and when we overthrew him, the Shias came to power and began marginalizing the Sunnis in return.
2. Because Al-Qaeda fractured internally due to many within ranks who felt like hit and run attacks and working behind the scenes wasn't enough.
3. Because unemployment rates among the youth in Middle Eastern countries is exceedingly high; there are *a lot* of fighting age men walking around with nothing to do.
4. Because Syria is in the middle of a catastrophic civil war and its eastern, oil rich lands where there are little to no government forces present is a perfect place to setup camp for a caliphate on the rise.

ISIS is a socioeconomic problem that was been brewing for a long, long time.

 

[Victorian Gray]

As long a there are apologists like you in charge of governments history will keep repeating itself if not get completely worse while you live in a state of denial.

First, wtf am I supposed to be apologizing for/denying.

Second, any comparison between Vietnam and Iraq is just silly. Really, just silly.

Suggestion: read a few history books.