Pros and Cons of ATX versus micro ATX motherboard?

[StrangerGuy]

I didn't say "you" but "I" can't hear a difference. Why does it matter? You don't know what I listen to or what kind of speakers/headphones I use, so your perspective may not be aligned with mine.

What if I just listened to audiobooks through some cheap $10 multimedia speakers? What if the only sounds I hear are the Windows sound events and some random crappy Youtube stuff? What if I'm partially deaf? What if I just don't give a damn? What if I didn't have the budget for a nice sound card when I built my system?

Besides, sometimes I suspect that people hear what they want to hear. How else can audiophiles justify spending huge amounts of money for accessories? How else can some people say that vinyl sounds better than anything digital, or that radio sounds better? It is all very subjective. Some people like the "live" sound of Bose direct/reflecting speakers, while others hate it.

BTW I do appreciate reasonably decent sound. It's just that once past a certain level, I don't feel that I gain anything.

I love how "audiophiles" dissing onboard sound in favor of discrete cards when its is a fact that speakers would affect sound more than any sound card will.

And true audiophiles won't touch any sound card with a 10 foot pole even if they source the sound from their PCs.

 

[Ksyder]

The main thing that led me to full atx is that I needed more than 4 sata ports, which can be hard to find except on high-end micro-atx boards. This is probably changing as the chipsets are supporting more and more ports, but that has been my experience up until now. Other than that, I can't think of a tangible reason why I personally use full atx.

My graphics card is cheap and I am running everything else onboard. I use the lowest watt psu I can. Also, I don't like to buy a micro-atx case and only be stuck with the choice of m-atx boards. Usually the cool features are found on ATX boards, so why limit yourself to only m-atx? Buy a case that can use both. They don't have to be large, particularly if the psu is on the top. In this case the psu wires don't have to be long, and the cases are smaller, closer in size to micro atx cases.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I didn't say "you" but "I" can't hear a difference. Why does it matter?

Because I don't appreciate the perpetuation of ignorance with statements like, "with the way Windows runs audio these days, not much of a benefit to use a discrete sound card" thus proclaiming an opinion as fact.

You don't know what I listen to or what kind of speakers/headphones I use, so your perspective may not be aligned with mine.

You're correct, I don't know, which is why I made the stipulation, "in either case such a claim makes it hard for me to believe the person has truly experienced the alternative", implying that users who claim there isn't a difference simply haven't truly experienced the difference on a setup that could reveal a difference. Of course I had to spend ~$250 and eventually $500 to truly appreciate it, and whether or not that's worth it, especially going in "blind" as to whether or not it will be worthwhile, I can totally respect.

What if I just listened to audiobooks through some cheap $10 multimedia speakers? What if the only sounds I hear are the Windows sound events and some random crappy Youtube stuff? What if I'm partially deaf? What if I just don't give a damn? What if I didn't have the budget for a nice sound card when I built my system?

Well we were talking about high vs. low end mATX boards, so perhaps I incorrectly assumed some of us here were concerned about the high end and gaming in particular. If you were deaf or didn't give a damn or simply didn't want to spend the money you should say so instead of trying to justify it by trying to convey the idea that there simply isn't a difference for everyone because of how Windows 7 now handles audio

Besides, sometimes I suspect that people hear what they want to hear. How else can audiophiles justify spending huge amounts of money for accessories?

Because they can actually hear a difference? Besides, I'm not necessarily talking about simple quality for the merits of discrete sound, I'm largely talking about HRTFs for superior audio positioning for playing games which can provide a superior immersive experience or even a legitimate tactical advantage for more competitive games.

How else can some people say that vinyl sounds better than anything digital, or that radio sounds better? It is all very subjective. Some people like the "live" sound of Bose direct/reflecting speakers, while others hate it.

You're right, a lot of enjoyment is subjective, some people listen to music that others consider to be noise, however I'd guarantee that 9 times out of 10 I could get people to choose my setup over theirs (assuming they're running onboard with cheap speakers/headset) in terms of which one sounds better or gives them an tangible advantage while gaming.

BTW I do appreciate reasonably decent sound. It's just that once past a certain level, I don't feel that I gain anything.

And I totally respect that, maybe just be a little bit more clear about it in the first place.

I love how "audiophiles" dissing onboard sound in favor of discrete cards when its is a fact that speakers would affect sound more than any sound card will.

Not when it comes to HRTFs like CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone.

And true audiophiles won't touch any sound card with a 10 foot pole even if they source the sound from their PCs.

Again, when it comes to HRTFs, sometimes there isn't a choice.

Besides, just as Zap chooses to settle for onboard sound largely because of cost, some of us don't go all out on external audio receivers and speakers just to get the perfect sound, audiophiles don't have to be all or nothing, they can draw the line somewhere as well. In my particular case it was settling on a lower quality sound card in order to get superior sound positioning as I value my gaming over my music, and it even saved me money.

 

[Zap]

Because I don't appreciate the perpetuation of ignorance with statements like, "with the way Windows runs audio these days, not much of a benefit to use a discrete sound card" thus proclaiming an opinion as fact.

From this thread: new games either support OpenAL natively or they have their built-in software sound engine to make 3D sound effects (like Half Life 2) which wont use your soundcards hardware at all no matter what OS you use.

Just an example of what others say. Dunno, maybe I was being mislead?

I'm largely talking about HRTFs for superior audio positioning for playing games which can provide a superior immersive experience or even a legitimate tactical advantage for more competitive games.

OIC. I was commenting regarding sound quality from your earlier "vastly superior audio fidelity" comment. I had to look up what HRTF meant. :sneaky: In any case, for sound quality, the speakers/headphones are probably the most important part, followed by an external (physically outside the PC) DAC.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

for a NAS build its hard enough finding 6SATA ports. A lot have 5 or so. You can easily get 8 on an ATX. X58 boards have 10 SATA in some cases... throw in 2 eSATA and you can have a massive pool

 

[bunnyfubbles]

From this thread: new games either support OpenAL natively or they have their built-in software sound engine to make 3D sound effects (like Half Life 2) which wont use your soundcards hardware at all no matter what OS you use.

Just an example of what others say. Dunno, maybe I was being mislead?



OIC. I was commenting regarding sound quality from your earlier "vastly superior audio fidelity" comment. I had to look up what HRTF meant. :sneaky: In any case, for sound quality, the speakers/headphones are probably the most important part, followed by an external (physically outside the PC) DAC.

yeah, just using headphones and standard stereo sound with the vast majority of 3D/first-person games is, at least IMO, terrible

I tried playing Bad Company 2 (a game that is supposed to have impeccable sound) for the first time in months without using Creative's CMSS-3D (Dolby Headphone is another such example) for my headset and it was a terrible experience. Sure, I could figure out where players were supposed to be, but too often I would hear positional sounds out of only one ear, making it obvious whether something was to my left or to my right, but making it harder to position precisely where it was, whether in front or behind and not just to my left or right.

When you hear a noise positioned on your left, your right ear hears the noise as well, and that's what HRTFs are all about. What's more is that some games might not have excellent stereo positioning but do have support for surround, and the HRTFs can take that surround channel sources and mix it with an HRTF to simulate that over a headset.