ProPublica uses leaked IRS data to show how wealth inequality is messed up in this country

[MrSquished]

Fascinating read. Long but worth it. Stuff we already knew but it lays it out nicely.

The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax

ProPublica has obtained a vast cache of IRS information showing how billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and Warren Buffett pay little in income tax compared to their massive wealth — sometimes, even nothing.

www.propublica.org

 

[UNCjigga]

I love how Dems in Congress respond with, “Leaks like this are bad, but damn we should do something about this inequality…” while the Republican response is a) “FIND THE LEAKERS!” and b) “IRS leaks so bad they shouldn’t have access to your financial data!”

 

[woolfe9998]

Wow, that is quite a leak and quite a bombshell, to publicize such detailed financial information for those billionaires.

If Pro Publica just ran this today, and I guess it's going to be a series, then I would except major news outlets to start digging into it tomorrow.

 

[pcgeek11]

It would be great if either or both parties would work to fix the system.

 

[WelshBloke]

It would be great if either or both parties would work to fix the system.

I suspect that this would need will and support from across the political spectrum to achieve.

 

[ivwshane]

I suspect that this would need will and support from across the political spectrum to achieve.

No what it would need is a Republican Party that actually cared about America, average Americans, and democracy.

 

[WelshBloke]

No what it would need is a Republican Party that actually cared about America, average Americans, and democracy.

That isn't disagreeing with what was said.

Let's be honest both sides in American politics seem to not be making much of an effort to change this issue. Yeah, there's more on the left that make a noise about it but I don't see much effort being made by any party.

 

[zinfamous]

No one among the 25 wealthiest avoided as much tax as Buffett, the grandfatherly centibillionaire. That’s perhaps surprising, given his public stance as an advocate of higher taxes for the rich. According to Forbes, his riches rose $24.3 billion between 2014 and 2018. Over those years, the data shows, Buffett reported paying $23.7 million in taxes.

I mean, that's not really surprising. He's paying the current ridiculous 0.1% that the IRS and the law allows him to achieve. It doesn't dismiss his argument that these laws should be changed and he should pay more. That's the kind of thing that an illiterate conservative with someonelse's mind would say during a playground rant.

People are most often going to work within the law, and certainly work for their best efficiency.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Wealth and income are sadly not the same thing. We'd have to adjust tax laws accordingly.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I mean, that's not really surprising. He's paying the current ridiculous 0.1% that the IRS and the law allows him to achieve. It doesn't dismiss his argument that these laws should be changed and he should pay more. That's the kind of thing that an illiterate conservative with someonelse's mind would say during a playground rant.

People are most often going to work within the law, and certainly work for their best efficiency.

Yep, so when people like sanders or warren, who have 8 digit wealth, come out and support more taxes on themselves, it's completely logical. But morans gonna Moran.

 

[UNCjigga]

It would be great if either or both parties would work to fix the system.

Won’t happen when one party is catering exclusively to morons who are easily convinced that the Blacks and Latinos are stealing their tax dollars.

 

[brycejones]

It would be great if either or both parties would work to fix the system.

Who did you vote for at any level that has expressed an interest in doing that or even identified it as an issue?

 

[pmv]

I mean, that's not really surprising. He's paying the current ridiculous 0.1% that the IRS and the law allows him to achieve. It doesn't dismiss his argument that these laws should be changed and he should pay more. That's the kind of thing that an illiterate conservative with someonelse's mind would say during a playground rant.

People are most often going to work within the law, and certainly work for their best efficiency.

Yup, not surprising at all. I suspect many of these super-rich dudes are driven by a compulsion to maximise their income. It's a game, and that's how you keep score. I suppose from the point-of-view of those playing it, the question is at what point does it move from a strategy to an 'exploit' that destroys the whole point of the thing? At some point even the successful players who make use of them, are going to ask for the exploitable features to be fixed ('do something about that shooting-through-walls bug!').

The problem is that politics and business are a single entity, and those political parties want the donations of the successful players (and the party leaders measure themselves by the same metric as those business guys, and aspire to attain that lifestyle themselves).

 

[dank69]

This is nowhere near as compelling as it's made out to be. They are still paying millions/billions. Yes, they should be paying a lot more but this isn't going to convince a single conservative of that.

 

[KB]

"Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell."

We have long taxed income and not wealth and I do not think we will change that. If I had a baseball card collection or rare coins worth a million bucks should I have to pay taxes on that if I don't sell it? Its the same for these guys just much bigger numbers. I could see a small wealth tax like 0.1% one day, but it would have to be very small, so Business owners aren't forced to sell a part of their company just to pay wealth tax bill.

 

[Brainonska511]

"Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell."

We have long taxed income and not wealth and I do not think we will change that. If I had a baseball card collection or rare coins worth a million bucks should I have to pay taxes on that if I don't sell it? Its the same for these guys just much bigger numbers. I could see a small wealth tax like 0.1% one day, but it would have to be very small, so Business owners aren't forced to sell a part of their company just to pay wealth tax bill.

There are other ways to tax wealth outside of a direct tax on the assets, such as removing the stepped up basis people get when they pass investments to heirs at death.

 

[IronWing]

If Bezos leaves his money in Amazon, he has no income to tax. Ditto for Buffet and Berkshire. I don't mind folks building vast wealth in their lifetimes. I do mind billionaires getting the special billionaire welfare tax rate (capital gains rate) when they do sell. I double dog mind when they pass their fortunes on to their heirs without exorbitant taxes being paid.

 

[thilanliyan]

I mean, that's not really surprising. He's paying the current ridiculous 0.1% that the IRS and the law allows him to achieve. It doesn't dismiss his argument that these laws should be changed and he should pay more. That's the kind of thing that an illiterate conservative with someonelse's mind would say during a playground rant.

People are most often going to work within the law, and certainly work for their best efficiency.

Exactly. Can't blame him for paying only what's required by law.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It would be great if either or both parties would work to fix the system.

I find it amazing nothing has been done, especially now that a majority of #bothaides want a tax overhaul which essentially means wealthy people pay more.
The only obstacle appears to be right wing news and the holdouts in Congress.
I mean basic stuff like inheritance tax shouldn’t be that difficult to fix, someone inheriting a property worth $500k shouldn’t be treated the same as someone inheriting 800 million in assets.
I am not a tax expert so I do not want to pose nor do I want to not pick over tax law, it seems the super wealthy simply do not pay taxes or they pay absolute minimum taxes on wealth transfers. Also seems like the AMT which was designed to require a wealthy person pay a minimum tax is simply for them to avoid and near impossible for a wealthy dude who works for a living like a guy who makes $200k per year as a Data Scientist.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Who did you vote for at any level that has expressed an interest in doing that or even identified it as an issue?

It's a secret.

 

[MrSquished]

"Their wealth derives from the skyrocketing value of their assets, like stock and property. Those gains are not defined by U.S. laws as taxable income unless and until the billionaires sell."

We have long taxed income and not wealth and I do not think we will change that. If I had a baseball card collection or rare coins worth a million bucks should I have to pay taxes on that if I don't sell it? Its the same for these guys just much bigger numbers. I could see a small wealth tax like 0.1% one day, but it would have to be very small, so Business owners aren't forced to sell a part of their company just to pay wealth tax bill.

Did you read the article?

 

[Sunburn74]

It would be great if either or both parties would work to fix the system.

On party is currently blocking tax reform right now and recently gave those billionaires who pay next to nothing a tax break.

Seems like the thing to do is to establish a tax rate for net worth after a person reaches a certain degree of personal wealth.

 

[vi edit]

If you can tax a bourbon barrell for it's "worth", you can tax a billionaire for theirs.

State's bourbon industry sets record, but needs tariff help - ABC 36 News

Nearly 10 million barrels of bourbon and other distilled spirits aging in warehouses across the state,

www.wtvq.com

 

[mect]

Its interesting the only asset we are comfortable taxing is the one that makes up the majority of middle class wealth.

 

[hal2kilo]

Well, the most important task after finding out this information is to go after who released it, right?