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ProPublica uses leaked IRS data to show how wealth inequality is messed up in this country

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
29,240
9,441
136
How does the wealthy lower their tax rates without actually lowering their tax rate? Back congressional representatives who vote to cut the IRS’s budget so that they can’t even audit the rich. Now they don’t even need to pay taxes because there are zero consequences to not doing so. Guess who does get audited though, the poor.

Rigged system? Lol rigged doesn’t seem like a strong enough word.
 

BlueWeasel

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
15,854
255
126
Guess who does get audited though, the poor.
It's a lot easier to go after someone who doesn't have the capability (ie, money) to fight back against against the IRS. Wouldn't surprise me if many of these uber-rich tax dodgers pay more annually to their army of accountants and tax attorneys than their own taxes.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,169
3,567
126
Wow, that is quite a leak and quite a bombshell, to publicize such detailed financial information for those billionaires.

If Pro Publica just ran this today, and I guess it's going to be a series, then I would except major news outlets to start digging into it tomorrow.
I caught wind of this by virtue of ABC national network news' story on it earlier in the week. Clearly, quite the bomb shell, and ABC didn't sugar coat it. The richest entrepreneurs in America are paying exactly zero federal income taxes. The billions of dollars that they are pocketing are all sheltered by the tax laws and the Republicans refuse to alleviate the gross injustice.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
27,863
4,912
126
That's what makes this country so great. You have people who went from nothing to something. Opportunity is there. I promise you I know the struggles of the poor. I wasn't born with silver spoon.
Well if you think that's what makes America great you probably want to get on board with the worry about wealth inequality then.

 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
28,139
3,470
126
Well if you think that's what makes America great you probably want to get on board with the worry about wealth inequality then.

Pfffft but look at the Bezos's and Musks who started businesses and became centibillionaires! Who cares if they are statistical outliers? Fuck the rest of the country /S
 

nOOky

Golden Member
Aug 17, 2004
1,994
813
136
and this article doesn't even touch on corporate taxes.

the system is so rigged it's insane.
No way. The corporate tax cut in 2017 was like the rising tide, can't you feel your boat being buoyed up and up and up?!
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
20,761
784
126
How does the wealthy lower their tax rates without actually lowering their tax rate? Back congressional representatives who vote to cut the IRS’s budget so that they can’t even audit the rich. Now they don’t even need to pay taxes because there are zero consequences to not doing so. Guess who does get audited though, the poor.

Rigged system? Lol rigged doesn’t seem like a strong enough word.
Well, not really.
IRS audit rates significantly increase as income rises | Internal Revenue Service
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
18,950
2,283
126
How does the wealthy lower their tax rates without actually lowering their tax rate? Back congressional representatives who vote to cut the IRS’s budget so that they can’t even audit the rich. Now they don’t even need to pay taxes because there are zero consequences to not doing so. Guess who does get audited though, the poor.

Rigged system? Lol rigged doesn’t seem like a strong enough word.
https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/irs-audit-rates-significantly-increase-as-income-rises

Your chance of audit increases substantially once you pass $1 million or more income. This IRS data from 2015 shows more than 1 in 10 return is audited for income greater than $10 million. Anything under $1 million is rounding error.

Do you know why the poor are audited? Because people cheat like hell with EITC. Over 25 million reported EITC and improper EITC credit cost the taxpayers $17 billion a year in fraudulent refund. And these people pay $0 taxes. Zero. IRS claims error rates claiming EITC are around 50%. Think about that. Poor people cheat like hell on their taxes too. Cheating is not poor or rich problem. It's everyone's problem and just proves no one likes paying taxes. Of course you guys don't pay shit but want others to pay more. I just want you to pay more too instead of saying you would be more than happy to. Donate to charity so your total federal "tax obligations" equal around 40% but do not write off your donations. This way you are paying more and not just talking the talk. Everyone who claim they will happily pay more, do it.
 
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ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
18,950
2,283
126
Pfffft but look at the Bezos's and Musks who started businesses and became centibillionaires! Who cares if they are statistical outliers? Fuck the rest of the country /S
What? You didn't have similar chance as Bezos and Musk? Who's fault was that? Bezos and Musk?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
29,240
9,441
136
So you guys think a higher audit rate (one that has been declining faster for the rich than for the poor) disproves my point? Way to straw man.


https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/irs-audit-rates-significantly-increase-as-income-rises

Your chance of audit increases substantially once you pass $1 million or more income. This IRS data from 2015 shows more than 1 in 10 return is audited for income greater than $10 million. Anything under $1 million is rounding error.

Do you know why the poor are audited? Because people cheat like hell with EITC. Over 25 million reported EITC and improper EITC credit cost the taxpayers $17 billion a year in fraudulent refund. And these people pay $0 taxes. Zero. IRS claims error rates claiming EITC are around 50%. Think about that. Poor people cheat like hell on their taxes too. Cheating is not poor or rich problem. It's everyone's problem and just proves no one likes paying taxes. Of course you guys don't pay shit but want others to pay more. I just want you to pay more too instead of saying you would be more than happy to. Donate to charity so your total federal "tax obligations" equal around 40% but do not write off your donations. This way you are paying more and not just talking the talk. Everyone who claim they will happily pay more, do it.
 
Nov 8, 2012
19,728
4,436
136
Oh I'm sorry. Then let's tax them at the low end of that bracket, 37%.

DEEEEEERRRRRP.
"low end of that bracket"

Lol that is literally the highest bracket. I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand our ultra complex tax brackets.

Perhaps returning to 3rd grade math can help you? Either way I said I'll have a grande latte Chad.
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
4,564
920
136
"low end of that bracket"

Lol that is literally the highest bracket. I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand our ultra complex tax brackets.

Perhaps returning to 3rd grade math can help you? Either way I said I'll have a grande latte Chad.
For being dumber than a box of rocks, you got a lot of gall calling anyone stupid. Per your own words, the lowest end of the highest bracket is still "low end of THAT BRACKET".

Fuck I hope you hurt every morning for how stupid you are.

3rd grade math ain't gonna help your inability to grasp 2nd grade english.
 
Nov 8, 2012
19,728
4,436
136
For being dumber than a box of rocks, you got a lot of gall calling anyone stupid. Per your own words, the lowest end of the highest bracket is still "low end of THAT BRACKET".

Fuck I hope you hurt every morning for how stupid you are.

3rd grade math ain't gonna help your inability to grasp 2nd grade english.
Lol I never said "low end of that bracket", that was you sugar tits.

I put 37-40% because our top rate has varied year to year from its current 37% to its previous 39.6% that it will likely return to under Biden.

Don't worry little buddy, we have slow classes for people like you.
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
4,564
920
136
Lol I never said "low end of that bracket", that was you sugar tits.

I put 37-40% because our top rate has varied year to year from its current 37% to its previous 39.6% that it will likely return to under Biden.

Don't worry little buddy, we have slow classes for people like you.
It's like words have no meaning with you. The low end of the highest bracket OH NOOOEEEES where ELSE would we tax the HIGHEST EARNERS?

Fuck you, dishonest C-U Next Tues
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
27,863
4,912
126
What? You didn't have similar chance as Bezos and Musk? Who's fault was that? Bezos and Musk?
Which is why people are saying that the game is fixed.
Equality of opportunity is the American dream, its that equality of opportunity that's missing and letting a few people hoard wealth is one of the problems.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
18,950
2,283
126
Which is why people are saying that the game is fixed.
Equality of opportunity is the American dream, its that equality of opportunity that's missing and letting a few people hoard wealth is one of the problems.
How is the game fixed? @Fenixgoon is white male and he had the same chance by being born in this country. He chose the life of wage slave vs life of entrepreneurship. That’s the main difference. And massive amount of hard work and luck.

My guess is @Fenixgoon had way better opportunities than me growing up. If anything, game was fixed against me. But limitations can be opportunities because it forces you to take risks. Fortune favors the bold.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
29,240
9,441
136
How is the game fixed? @Fenixgoon is white male and he had the same chance by being born in this country. He chose the life of wage slave vs life of entrepreneurship. That’s the main difference. And massive amount of hard work and luck.

My guess is @Fenixgoon had way better opportunities than me growing up. If anything, game was fixed against me. But limitations can be opportunities because it forces you to take risks. Fortune favors the bold.
No one gives a fuck about you so I’m not sure why you think bringing up your personal experience is relevant to the discussion. Obviously his original point was lost on you.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
28,139
3,470
126
How is the game fixed? @Fenixgoon is white male and he had the same chance by being born in this country. He chose the life of wage slave vs life of entrepreneurship. That’s the main difference. And massive amount of hard work and luck.

My guess is @Fenixgoon had way better opportunities than me growing up. If anything, game was fixed against me. But limitations can be opportunities because it forces you to take risks. Fortune favors the bold.
you need to look at data, not anecdotes.

so, how good is economic mobility in the US? the answer is not very good
in fact, if you want to get rich...move to norway
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
18,950
2,283
126
No one gives a fuck about you so I’m not sure why you think bringing up your personal experience is relevant to the discussion. Obviously his original point was lost on you.
What have you brought to this discussion? Nothing. Probably the same as the amount of taxes you pay.

you need to look at data, not anecdotes.

so, how good is economic mobility in the US? the answer is not very good
in fact, if you want to get rich...move to norway
No country is perfect. But US is still the land of opportunity. Norway and other Scandinavian countries do have some advantages we don't have here. Norway has that huge investment fund which they can rely on because of the lucky oil discovery and smart investment of that oil money.

We still have the most billionaires and millionaires in the world although China is catching up fast. But you can still make a good living and life in the US even if you're not millionaire. There are still plenty of good jobs and business opportunities in the US; it's relatively easy to get your foot in the door and work your way up. If you work hard in the US, you can succeed. That's not the case in many parts of the world. The opportunity is simply not there or there are very few. That's the key difference and why the US is still the land of opportunity.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
29,240
9,441
136
Hey kid, let us know when you can talk about an issue without resorting to straw man arguments, until then I’d suggest keeping your mouth shut unless you intend to show us just how dumb you are.

Btw, your insecurity is showing.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,110
6,202
136
I personally have zero issue with people inventing things and businesses that make them very wealthy. I don't think this article does either, and that was not the point of this post. The point is the system of taxation and how the wealthy can game the system is fucked. It's crystal crystal clear.

Also there is absolutely no equality of opportunity in this country. Sure some people move from lower to upper class. My pops came here with little and he and my mom ended up in the upper middle class. But class mobility is far more rare than it should be.
 

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