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ProPublica uses leaked IRS data to show how wealth inequality is messed up in this country

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Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,984
14,146
136
Lol prepare for a ton of "We would! If only if it weren't for those republitards!"

Except .. oh wait, they have a majority now, and they had one plenty under Obama. They will continue to pull excuses out of their ass just like rabbits though.
So dishonest. Dems had a filibuster proof majority for a few months in 2009 prior to Ted Kennedy's decline & death.
 
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sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
6,909
1,739
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The standard deduction and itemized deductions both approximate living expenses. Child care tax credit, retirement savings, medical flex spending, mortgage points and interest, etc. are all deductible living expenses.

A gross receipts tax for businesses (taxing revenues without deductions) is generally considered bad policy because it greatly magnifies pressure on companies that don't have gigantic margins. A company with $100 million in sales and the accompanying gross receipts taxes could easily go from profitable to bankrupt if "profits" aren't in the 7-figure range.

[$100,000,000 × 5% (a common gross receipts tax amount) = $5,000,000 in taxes owed. If the company's net profit before taxes is $1,000,000 your gross receipts tax policy would drive an otherwise profitable and productive company into bankruptcy quickly since they'd still owe the $5 million and end up losing $4 million.]
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,104
6,202
136
Lol prepare for a ton of "We would! If only if it weren't for those republitards!"

Except .. oh wait, they have a majority now, and they had one plenty under Obama. They will continue to pull excuses out of their ass just like rabbits though.
Tell me which party is refusing to do a thing about infrastructure if there is a damn penny raised on those who make 400K or more or on corporations.

I'll expect crickets.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
19,725
4,436
136
It may sound crazy but I don't think expenses for a business should be tax deductible.

My expenses for generally living are not tax deductible. Why should a businesses expenses be deductible?
Your purchasing of a product is a net consumption of a product.

A business expense is the research, development, building, production, and innovation of a product. Surely you can understand the concept that one should be emphasized as important to economical growth and the other is going to happen regardless?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,104
6,202
136
Your purchasing of a product is a net consumption of a product.

A business expense is the research, development, building, production, and innovation of a product. Surely you can understand the concept that one should be emphasized as important to economical growth and the other is going to happen regardless?
So people buying shit isn't important to grow the economy?

Have you heard of this thing called consumer capitalism?

It's pretty much how it all works moron.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
6,685
5,346
136
If Bezos leaves his money in Amazon, he has no income to tax. Ditto for Buffet and Berkshire. I don't mind folks building vast wealth in their lifetimes. I do mind billionaires getting the special billionaire welfare tax rate (capital gains rate) when they do sell. I double dog mind when they pass their fortunes on to their heirs without exorbitant taxes being paid.
They borrow against their stock wealth. Relatively intelligent gazillionaires do it all day every day. Guess how much that "loan" they get is taxed?
 
Jun 18, 2000
10,860
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They borrow against their stock wealth. Relatively intelligent gazillionaires do it all day every day. Guess how much that "loan" they get is taxed?
I saw that referenced in the article. How do they pay back the loans? That part has me confused. I get the loan uses assets like stocks or property as collateral, but I assume they need income from some source to pay it back.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
5,793
707
126
I mean, that's not really surprising. He's paying the current ridiculous 0.1% that the IRS and the law allows him to achieve. It doesn't dismiss his argument that these laws should be changed and he should pay more. That's the kind of thing that an illiterate conservative with someonelse's mind would say during a playground rant.

People are most often going to work within the law, and certainly work for their best efficiency.
I love how wealthy individuals bemoan that the current tax system isn't fair but refuse to pay their fair share until mandated by law.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
28,139
3,470
126
I love how wealthy individuals bemoan that the current tax system isn't fair but refuse to pay their fair share until mandated by law.
why would they pay any more than they have to? why would anyone?

i mean, that's kinda the whole point of taxes in the first place. if the federal budget were subject to donations, there'd be a hell of a lot less federal budget.
 
Nov 8, 2012
19,725
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I love how wealthy individuals bemoan that the current tax system isn't fair but refuse to pay their fair share until mandated by law.
Sheeeeeet, it's not even wealthy individuals like Warren Buffett. It's tons of incompetent folks on this forum.

Gift Away baby, if you feel the rich need to pay more - start with yourselves douchebags:

 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
5,610
1,002
126
This article seems like a hit piece. Mainly because the average American does not understand the difference between wealth and income.
In America we are taxed on income not wealth and for a good fucking reason.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,104
6,202
136
This article seems like a hit piece. Mainly because the average American does not understand the difference between wealth and income.
In America we are taxed on income not wealth and for a good fucking reason.
Another schmuck that didn't read the article.

Imagine being such a tool for the right wing you defend this insane system.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
5,610
1,002
126
Another schmuck that didn't read the article.

Imagine being such a tool for the right wing you defend this insane system.
Yeah I'm the tool because I understand the difference between wealth and income.....whatever gets your feels going champ
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,104
6,202
136
Yeah I'm the tool because I understand the difference between wealth and income.....whatever gets your feels going champ
The article is far more complex than that.

Get literate. Life is more complex than just reading SKU's and digging holes.
 
Nov 8, 2012
19,725
4,436
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Yeah I'm the tool because I understand the difference between wealth and income.....whatever gets your feels going champ
You're talking to a complete retard who probably doesn't even understand capital gains taxes.

It's an article doing things like calculating someone's "change in net worth" - by obvious means of calculating their gains in stocks/assets... all the while entirely ignoring the fact that if they actually sold them that taxes would be due.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,104
6,202
136
Imagine defending this system of taxation and wealth accumulation and distribution. You have to be such a dumb fuck, or corrupt to the core.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,104
6,202
136
You're talking to a complete retard who probably doesn't even understand capital gains taxes.

It's an article doing things like calculating someone's "change in net worth" - by obvious means of calculating their gains in stocks/assets... all the while entirely ignoring the fact that if they actually sold them that taxes would be due.
Sometimes I hit the trigger too fast, but, everytime I see you defend the position I just attacked, I know I'm right.

It's a guarantee.

You are the measuring stick of defending idiocy or the just plain indefensible.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
5,610
1,002
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The article is far more complex than that.

Get literate. Life is more complex than just reading SKU's and digging holes.
No it's not it plays on those who are ignorant on why America taxes individuals the way it does.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,104
6,202
136
No it's not it plays on those who are ignorant on why America taxes individuals the way it does.
Imagine reading that article and thinking this is a hit job on billionaires. Like someone is saying they should be destitute and not still be billionaires ten times over, when they are just saying to adjust the system so it's not so easily played.

I've never seen such stupid religious fervor in recent memory over something so insane besides radical islamist wackos and evangelical lunatics.

Worshipping extreme wealth disparity in a totally rigged system designed by those who run the system via money as speech is like a religion to these wackadoos.

These people would be defending the wealth disparity in France just before the revolution. Weigh is not a bad as where we are at now. Don't you dare question things!

It's insane.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
29,240
9,440
136
Imagine reading that article and thinking this is a hit job on billionaires. Like someone is saying they should be destitute and not still be billionaires ten times over, when they are just saying to adjust the system so it's not so easily played.

I've never seen such stupid religious fervor in recent memory over something so insane besides radical islamist wackos and evangelical lunatics.

You are fucked in the head.
There really is no point in talking with these traitors, if you think there is I’d love to hear it.
 
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bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
5,610
1,002
126
There really is no point in talking with these traitors, if you think there is I’d love to hear it.”
Fuck you asshole and the horse you rode in on. Just because I understand something that you do not doesn't make me a traitor to my country.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,104
6,202
136
Fuck you asshole and the horse you rode in on. Just because I understand something that you do not doesn't make me a traitor to my country.
Anybody who read that article and thinks like you do is either a billionaire religious fundamentalist or just incapable of critical thinking.

It does not make you a traitor to your country if you love the founding fathers creating a system of insane wealth disparity and inequality and codifying it and making it extremely difficult to change. Then you are just a good modern Republican that wants to go back to those days.
 
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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
4,338
1,690
136
Your purchasing of a product is a net consumption of a product.

A business expense is the research, development, building, production, and innovation of a product. Surely you can understand the concept that one should be emphasized as important to economical growth and the other is going to happen regardless?
Yeah no that's an arbitrary distinction and evaluation that a business which is the extension of a person should have its individual investments for its personal benefits tax deducted. For example, if you were the CEO and had lunch everyday with potential clients you can write that off as a job expense. if you as a person are looking for jobs and pay for lunch during your job search or during your interview day you can't. If a business pays for lunch in order to make $100 dollars that day, its fine. If you pay for lunch so that your body doesn't shut down so you can make $100 dollars at your job site, you can't. its actually really funny. I work in a field where I can be a contract worker or can be a salaried employee. There are many things I can write off as a contract worker that I can't write off as a salary worker even though the job is the same, the tools are the same, my needs are the same, my necessary physical investments needed to do the job are the same [ie office at home, etc]. The only difference is as a contract worker I can call my work a business, whilst as a salary worker I am an employee.

Its completely arbitrary to claim that investments companies make to ensure their own financial growth and independence are more important and should be tax deductible when individuals make those same investments in order to ensure a steady income they can't. I mean, if a company rents a building to ensure a steady income thats fine but if I rent an apartment to ensure a steady income its not deductible. There is no reason in this country to sometimes treat companies as individuals when it benefits them and to sometimes treat them as non-individuals when it doesn't.


This article seems like a hit piece. Mainly because the average American does not understand the difference between wealth and income.
In America we are taxed on income not wealth and for a good fucking reason.
I think you're missing the entire basic idea of the story which is 2 points.

You can hide from what is basically income by calling it "wealth" and not income.

In addition, wealth when it does get taxed is taxed at a much much lower rate than income. For example, many people pay 30-40% taxes between state and federal on their income. However if you're a billionaire and you're only taking in "wealth" from capital gains, you're paying a much much lower tax rate if anything at all when you use tax strategies that allow you to use your company to shield you from tax liabilities.

I'd love for my company to pay me in amazon stock or bitcoin or whatever so I can avoid taxes but it can't. I get paid in real dollars and it gets taxed. Another way to think about it is what would happen if EVERYONE DID THAT. if 100% of the US did what these billionaires are doing, the country would be broke tomorrow AM.
 
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bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
5,610
1,002
126
I think you're missing the entire basic idea of the story which is 2 points.

You can hide from what is basically income by calling it "wealth" and not income.

In addition, wealth when it does get taxed is taxed at a much much lower rate than income. For example, many people pay 30-40% taxes between state and federal on their income. However if you're a billionaire and you're only taking in "wealth" from capital gains, you're paying a much much lower tax rate if anything at all when you use tax strategies that allow you to use your company to shield you from tax liabilities.

I'd love for my company to pay me in amazon stock or bitcoin or whatever so I can avoid taxes but it can't. I get paid in real dollars and it gets taxed. Another way to think about it is what would happen if EVERYONE DID THAT. if 100% of the US did what these billionaires are doing, the country would be broke tomorrow AM.
No I'm not missing any basic points. I understand the difference between wealth and income. Do any of you? Do you understand the impact it would have on your take home pay if the company you worked for only payed you in stocks or bitcoin?
Do you truly understand the ramifications of being payed that way? I don't think you do and it's not your fault most Americans don't. There is a difference between wealth and income whether you want to believe that or not is all on you and your understanding of the difference.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
27,859
4,909
126
These people would be defending the wealth disparity in France just before the revolution. Weigh is not a bad as where we are at now. Don't you dare question things!

It's insane.
For context.

.
 

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