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Proposed Liquid Watercooling System - Location of Components

daw123

daw123

Platinum Member
Hello guys and girls,

Whilst installing my new graphics card, I took some basic measurements inside the case for where the various components could fit.

Due to the insides of the case being so cramped (I should have bought a full tower case rather than the Praetorian 731) I am severely limited with space:
1. I may need to use a reservoir which will fit into a single or double 5.25" drive bay. Perhaps the following:
Danger Den Single 5 1/4inch Bay Reservoir
http://www.thecoolingshop.com/...33_61/products_id/2932
Alternatively I can use the Swiftech MCRES-MICRO and mount this in between the gap to the side of the 3.5" bays and side case panel. I have a gap of 40mm, which would leave a 2mm gap between the side panel and reservoir (a bit tight). I will measure it more accurately at a later date using vernier callipers. I believe that this would be the more "elegant" solution because I could take the side panel off and refill it without danger of water splashing on to key components.
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/...cat=1040&name=Swiftech MCRES-Micro Watercooling Resevoir

The Swiftech website actually shows this as a reservoir location on the CM Wavemaster, which is the same chassis as the Praetorian, so there is no reason why it shouldn't fit:
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCRES-MICRO.asp

2. The pump can be mounted in the bottom of the case. I have a space of 95mm high x 115mm wide x 100mm long, I have measured this generously and I have also allowed for obstructions such as cabling, HDDs, PCI cards, etc. Alternatively the pump could be mounted up side down at the top of the case affixed to the same bracketry as mentioned below in item 3.

3. The rad and triple 120mm fans will mount on top of the case and I will remove the approx. 80mm x 80mm top case fan and guard and run the inlet and outlet pipework through this hole into the case. I will also fabricate a bracket which clamps into this hole to secure the rad box to the case.

My dad thinks that the min. radius I can put on the PVC pipe work is 50mm without causing it to "kink" and restrict flow.

The photos of inside the case are below:
http://i429.photobucket.com/al...Internals/DSC00382.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/al...Internals/DSC00383.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/al...Internals/DSC00384.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/al...Internals/DSC00385.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/al...Internals/DSC00386.jpg

My proposed parts list is as follows:
MCP355 DC pump
EK Extreme Water Block
Swiftech MCR320-QP Triple 120mm Radiator
3 x 120mm dia Yate Loon D12SM-12 fans
Swiftech MCB-120 Radbox
PrimoChill Anti-Kink Coils 3/8" ID pipe work - UV Blue (I may cut a window in my side panel at a later stage)
Danger Den FB (Fat Boy) 3/8" ID barbs
Swiftech Micro Reservoir or Danger Den Single 5 1/4inch Bay Reservoir

What do you guys and girls think? Do you have better suggestions?

btw The photographs were taken before I installed the HD4870 X2. The X2 comes down to just above the PCI-E sound card (third card from bottom) and overhangs the MB by about 1.5".

I would prefer the MCP355 pump rather than the MCP655, because it is smaller, a lot less complicated (just plugs in to a 4-pin power connector) and I don't have to worry about speed control, etc. It also pumps about 7.5litres per minute (quite a bit) at nominal head pressure (which is what I would have). I think the MCP655 would be overkill.

EDIT: Added more info.
 
u need a top for that pump to unlock its potential.

The XSPC Res/TOP is my first recomendation for this area, as it does both job as a performance TOP and RES:

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0030.jpg

http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-A...Laing-DDC-pr-4123.html

I dont recomend bay res.s as they make SLOOSH noises. Exception is the XSPC bay res, which cost as much as the TOP/RES.

I would keep your tubing on 1/2 seems like your only going after a cpu loop, so you dont need to worry about bend radius that much.

Keep your loop as shortest as possible. With the supreme, make sure you rotate the TOP 180 degrees on 2 mount tests to see which orientation it likes the best.

Try to mirror my horrizontal mount, however remember you need to flip the block 180 degree's once to see which direction gives better performance.

The EK is more tempermental in block orientation then a girl finding a dress for prom. So in a sense no 2 blocks are the same cuz of the injector plate.

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_1148.jpg

I would try to go on 7/16 tubing as its cheaper, and also fairly easy to work with, however i have heard very good things about promochill's NEW tubing line. However its hard to beat the price of masterkleer 7/16.

http://www.jab-tech.com/Master...ID-5-8-OD-pr-3079.html
That tubing will work on 1/2 barbs.

I recomend around 15 feet for newbie's to compesnate for OOPS.

Some h20 stores i highly recomend:
Jab-tech.com
Sidewindercomputers.com
Shoppts.com
 
@ Aigo. Thanks for the info.

I think I'm going to be stuck with the Switftech micro reservoir because I don't know where I can fit the XSPC Res/TOP reservoir inside my case (as you can see from the photos space is restricted requiring "compact" components). It is quite a bit bigger than the micro reservoir, unless you know of another reservoir which is thin (less than 40mm width) which has a top inlet which I could use?

I would like to use the MP355 pump because it is small, seems to be easy to install and I don't want to have to mess around with speed controllers (which I would probably need if I used a more powerful / bigger pump).

Unfortunately, the MP355 pump has a 3/8" inlet and outlet. This may sound stupid, but how do I connect the 7/16" ID tubing to these 3.8" fittings? I wasn't sure, which is why I went for the 3.8" ID tubing. It doesn't look as if these fittings can be changed; from the photos they seem to be moulded into the pump housing.

Edit. I have had a think where these components could be located:

I have a space 115mm wide by 100mm long by 95mm high in the bottom of the case. I can locate the XSPC Res/TOP reservoir here.

There is a space at the top of the case 145mm wide by 84mm high (two 5.25" drive bay height) by 200mm long. I could fit the MP355 pump in one of the bays and bolt it to a 3.5" to 5.25" adapter, similar to this:
http://www.lambda-tek.com/comp...base11.2&prodID=B68011

I will cut off the PCB to the rear of the adapter and also cut off any other extraneous bits.

The Swiftech rad box will be adapted so that it can be clamped in the 84mm long by 81mm wide square opening for the top case fan, which I will remove. I will use right angled fittings (see below) on the radiator inlet and outlet. The pipework for the radiator and the cabling for the radiator fans can enter the case through the 81mm x 84mm square hole. I know that the rad box is 35mm high so there should be enough clearance to accommodate the right angled fittings.
http://www.candccentral.co.uk/...lbow_Adapter_G1_4.html

Essentially the circuit (to keep the pipe work to a minimum) will be CPU heat block to rad/fans to pump to reservoir back to the heat block.

Two potential issues I can see with solution:
1. The pump is before the reservoir, but does the location of the pump in the loop matter?
2. The reservoir is at the lowest point in the loop. Any trapped air in the loop will not be in the reservoir, although with the radiator being at the highest point, won't the air be trapped in here. Then again, Swiftech claim this: 'Patent-pending self purging plenum chambers design: when installed upright or on its side, air cannot accumulate in the plenum chambers'

In a closed loop system, doesn't the air get removed by bleeding the system, so issue 2 doesn't become a problem? I'm not experienced enough to know. Aigo's loop shown in the following picture had the reservoir low in the case, although I couldn't see his pump in relation to the reservoir (is the pump before or after the reservoir in the loop; is it higher or lower than the reservoir).
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0406.jpg
 
The 355 can be use w/ a non res top like this that will take 1/2" barbs. I use 3/8" tubing on 1/2" barbs simply because I like the appearance of the smaller tubing and with the 1/2" fittings the flow is not negatively affected (much). The biggest problem I find is that the tube will collapse on the suction side of the pump if the radius is too tight.
 
Thanks Woodbutcher. I edited my post whilst you were responding to my queries.

You and Aigo know quite a lot about liquid cooling, and following on from Aigo's post I had a re-think and re-designed the system (refer to my edited post above). Do you think this re-design is ok?

I did quite a bit more research since Aigo's post to make sure that the design changes I made, in my opinion with my limited knowledge, would fit together ok and also fit in my case. I also firmed up in my head, how the various bits will actually be installed (such as what mods I need to do to my case). The only thing I'm not too sure about (as well as the two potential issues I stated in my previous post), is where I will put the fillport for the res.
 
With the research you've done and Dad looking over your shoulder you''ll be fine. I would suggest adding drain and as far as the fillport goes there are no rules, ease of use and appearance are the only considerations I can think of.
 
@ Woodbutcher. Yep, a drain would be a good idea. If I get wet feet, I know the res is leaking 🙂
 
Houston, we may have a problem.

I have had another look at the XSPC website for the res/top and realised that the dimensions they give (73 x 62 x 96mm) may not include the inlet barb on the top. If their dimensions don't include the barbs then it will not fit in the bottom of the case, because my HD4870 X2 is going to be in the way. If it does then all is okay because I can use a right angled fitting so that the inlet pipe goes around the graphics card rather than mystically through it.

Houston, we definitely have a problem.

I've just had a look on the net and the total height inc. barb for the XSPC res/top is 120mm. SH*T. That has thrown a spanner in the works.

Okay, I've had a think. If I can't use the XSPC res then I will go back to my original plan with the Microres mounted between the cage for the 3.5" bays and the side panel. I will keep the MCP355 pump in the top or second to top 5.25" drive bay.

The rad/fans will still be mounted on top of the case as described previously in my posts.

I will fit the pump top (probably the XSPC DDC Pump Acrylic Top) in the bottom of the case. Here is the link for the pump top if anyone is interested:
http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/sho...40_102&products_id=287

So the new loop is: CPU heat block to rad/fans to pump (top of the case) to pump top (bottom of the case) to res (mid way up the case on the side of the cage for the 3.5" bays) back to the CPU heat block (located slightly higher than the res on the MB obviously). That is the shortest pipe work route I can think of.

One good thing coming out of my Google searches; I've found 4 UK-based online shops, which sell individual liquid cooling products.
http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/
http://www.thecoolingshop.com/
http://www.candccentral.co.uk/
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/

What do you think of me re-re-design (I'm losing track of the design revision number 🙂)?

Edit: I forgot to add thanks for the help so far. Keep those suggestions coming; all help / advice is greatly appreciated.
 
@ Aigo. No the XSPC res/top won't fit even with the right angle fitting you suggested. I had clearance of 5mm when I thought that the res height of 96mm included the barbs on the top of the res. I have done another Google search for the top you recommended and I found it on one of the UK shops i mentioned before (why didn't I find this before??).

XSPC Laing DDC Top link (for in the UK): http://www.thecoolingshop.com/...o.php?products_id=3156

Anyway, I will take your recommendation onboard for the top.

My revised parts list is:
1. MCP355 DC pump
2. EK Extreme Water Block
3. Swiftech MCR320-QP Triple 120mm Radiator
4. 3 x 120mm dia Yate Loon D12SM-12 fans
5. Swiftech MCB-120 Radbox
6. 5No. metres of 7/16" ID pipe work - UV Blue
7. 9No. G1/4 Danger Den FB (Fat Boy) 1/2" ID barbs
8. 3No. G1/4 rotary (swivel) elbow adapters (I can't source the Bitspower G 1/4 Shining Silver Angle Fitting in the UK)
9. Swiftech Micro Reservoir
10. XSPC Laing DDC Top
11. 3.5" to 5.25" drive bay adapter. I ordered this earlier tonight because it was difficult to find this style of adapter in the UK. The adapter cost £1.84 and the P&P was £7.64! Unfortunately, I had very little choice - it would be more expensive and time consuming to fabricate the bracket from scratch than buy it off-the-shelf.
12. 10No. Stainless steel worm drive clamps.
13. 1No. 500 x 500mm sheet of 2mm thick aluminium (allowing for wastage and cock-ups)
14. 2 or 3No. rubber grommets
15. Danger Den Fillport (Silver) with 1/2" barb

Post edited following Woodbutcher's advice. Also added fill port fittings (assuming that the fill port on the res is G1/4).

Additional edit: I have the dimensions for the XSPC Laing DDC Top from the web. The height is 25mm exc. barb, length is 80mm exc. barb and width is 65mm. I will need to add another right angle fitting to the side inlet / outlet for it to fit in the bottom of the case. Other than that no problems.
 
The
10. XSPC Laing DDC Top
Click to expand...
will use 1/2" barbs, your good with 7/16" or 1/2" tubing. 3/8" tubing over 1/2" barbs is a bitch! To work it onto the fatboys I used hot water, pre-stretched, and K-Y. I wouldn't recommend it for the first time out.
 
Originally posted by: WoodButcher
The
10. XSPC Laing DDC Top
Click to expand...
will use 1/2" barbs, your good with 7/16" or 1/2" tubing. 3/8" tubing over 1/2" barbs is a bitch! To work it onto the fatboys I used hot water, pre-stretched, and K-Y. I wouldn't recommend it for the first time out.
Click to expand...

I'll go for the 7/16" ID pipe work. Will this be ok with the 3/8" barbs on the MCP355? I know it's only a difference of 1.6mm (or 0.8mm gap around the circumferance of the barb), but I don't know how well the tubing will crimp and seal around the barb using the worm drive clamps. I'm would hazard a guess that it's ok.

Edited for bad spelling.
 
Originally posted by: daw123
Originally posted by: WoodButcher
The
10. XSPC Laing DDC Top
Click to expand...
will use 1/2" barbs, your good with 7/16" or 1/2" tubing. 3/8" tubing over 1/2" barbs is a bitch! To work it onto the fatboys I used hot water, pre-stretched, and K-Y. I wouldn't recommend it for the first time out.
Click to expand...

I'll go for the 7/16" ID pipe work. Will this be ok with the 3/8" barbs on the MCP355? I know it's only a difference of 1.6mm (or 0.8mm gap around the circumference of the barb), but I don't know how well the tubing will crimp and seal around the barb using the worm drive clamps. I'm would hazard a guess that it's ok.

Edited for bad spelling.
Click to expand...

The 355 w/ the XSPC top, not the "res top" but this one, replaces the 3/8" barbs! Forget the 3/8" barbs!!! You need to use an after market top with the 355 series pumps to get the best performance. The top portion of the 355 with the barbs is removed and replaced.
 
Originally posted by: WoodButcher
Originally posted by: daw123
Originally posted by: WoodButcher
The
10. XSPC Laing DDC Top
Click to expand...
will use 1/2" barbs, your good with 7/16" or 1/2" tubing. 3/8" tubing over 1/2" barbs is a bitch! To work it onto the fatboys I used hot water, pre-stretched, and K-Y. I wouldn't recommend it for the first time out.
Click to expand...

<I'll go for the 7/16" ID pipe work. Will this be ok with the 3/8" barbs on the MCP355? I know it's only a difference of 1.6mm (or 0.8mm gap around the circumference of the barb), but I don't know how well the tubing will crimp and seal around the barb using the worm drive clamps. I'm would hazard a guess that it's ok.

Edited for bad spelling.
Click to expand...

The 355 w/ the XSPC top, not the "res top" but this one, replaces the 3/8" barbs! Forget the 3/8" barbs!!! You need to use an after market top with the 355 series pumps to get the best performance. The top portion of the 355 with the barbs is removed and replaced.
Click to expand...

Ah, that now makes sense if the XSPC top replaces the standard top of the MCP355. I was wondering exactly what the top did. That's just me being thick.

The part list remains the same, the location of the components changes (design revision D).

Okay, so the pump with the XSPC top (with a right angle fitting on the top) can go in the second to top 5.25" drive bay using the 3.5" to 5.25" adapter or in the bottom of the case (woohoo I have a choice). Either option will have plenty of clearance above the pump & top.

The Microres remains mounted between the cage for the 3.5" drive bays and the side panel. Likewise the rad / fans remain mounted on top of the case.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Woodbutcher. I have more space available than I thought.
 
No prob, avoid using the right angles if you can, they also kill the flowrate. If you'll note the stock top, the inlet water hits the center of the impeller after a 90 in the top, the XSPC has a direct inlet. Look here.
 
Thanks Woodbutcher for the link. Interesting reading; it just show's the improvements you can get by replacing the stock pump top.

I will buy three right angle fittings, just in case I need them (they are only about $4 each, and I know I definitely need two for the rad)

I have got two options now which will work, so I will buy the components and physically test fit them in the case to ascertain the best solution of the two options. The worst case scenario is that I need to use the third right angle fitting.

I can't wait to get my hands dirty and start modifying stuff 🙂.

Edit: I may at a later date add the Northbridge into the loop (after the CPU water block), but I'm not sure how the copper heat pipe arrangement between the copper cooling fin assembly then Northbridge heatsink (two pipes) and Southbridge heatsink (one pipe) will work if the Northbridge heatsink is removed and replaced with a water block. I will have to do some research into this.

Here's a link to my MB, which clearly shows the above arrangement:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/in...1&limit=1&limitstart=4
 
That board would need blocks on the NB, v regs and a low profile air solution on the SB.

Originally posted by: daw123
I can't wait to get my hands dirty and start modifying stuff 🙂.

Edit: I may at a later date add the Northbridge into the loop (after the CPU water block), but I'm not sure how the copper heat pipe arrangement between the copper cooling fin assembly then Northbridge heatsink (two pipes) and Southbridge heatsink (one pipe) will work if the Northbridge heatsink is removed and replaced with a water block. I will have to do some research into this.
Click to expand...
:roll:

Oh yeah,,,,,
You've been Aigoed!:laugh:
 
Originally posted by: WoodButcher
That board would need blocks on the NB, v regs and a low profile air solution on the SB.

Originally posted by: daw123
I can't wait to get my hands dirty and start modifying stuff 🙂.

Edit: I may at a later date add the Northbridge into the loop (after the CPU water block), but I'm not sure how the copper heat pipe arrangement between the copper cooling fin assembly then Northbridge heatsink (two pipes) and Southbridge heatsink (one pipe) will work if the Northbridge heatsink is removed and replaced with a water block. I will have to do some research into this.
Click to expand...
:roll:

Oh yeah,,,,,
You've been Aigoed!:laugh:
Click to expand...

Some of Aigo's previous victims 😀

I can't take the p*ss too much; you guys have helped me design my set up.
 
dayam you guys,

you making it sound like i have a body count now.

ROFL..
 
Originally posted by: aigomorla
dayam you guys,

you making it sound like i have a body count now.

ROFL..
Click to expand...

And I thought that you had a tally on your wall for the water-cooling converted (and a few air-cooling fanatics buried in your back garden) 😀.

Seriously though, you guys have helped me a lot and I readily admit my noob-ness.

So thanks for your advice and your patience with my long winded explainations of what I was planning to do and my endless design revisions.

Stay tuned; I will keep you updated with the installation progress.
 
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