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Proposed change to FS/FT rules

C

Cerebus451

Golden Member
In the FS/FT forum, there is a requirement that if you are selling something, you must list a price. However, if you are trading something, there is no mandate that you must list what it is you are looking for in return. The reason for the price mandate is so that sellers cannot perform auction style sales by taking the max bid. However, traders can perform auction style trades since any offers on the table are primarily hidden in PMs or e-mails, so the trader can sit back and wait for the highest bid to come in.

Another problem is that these trades tend to clutter the forum as well, as people will start trying to read the mind of the trader as to what it is they want, with PMs and posts going back and forth. If the trader listed what they wanted in trade in the first place, this is no longer an issue.

Lastly, it does tend to hurt the traders, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing, since in my mind they are stupid for posting this way in the first place. At present I count at least 4 threads looking to trade VS.NET. I am interested in trading for it, however, I am not about to waste my time trying to read the minds of these people in trying to come up with an offer. So, the end result is that these people have a taker for what they are looking to trade, but because they cannot be bothered to take the time to list what they want in trade, they are not getting any offers.

At any rate, it all boils down to this: sellers have to list a price, so in my mind traders should also be required to list their price, be it an actual item they want in trade, or at the very least an approximate retail value in items they want in trade.
 
In so many words..... "it wont be happeneing"

I think the rules are fine as is. They clearly lay out what is/is not acceptable. If you do not have time to make an offer for a trade, then don't. Someone will be glad to take your position in line. I also feel the MODs are being generous in allowing the ferengi to peddle off that NFR software.
 


<< I also feel the MODs are being generous in allowing the ferengi to peddle off that NFR software. >>



This I agree with. You didn't pay for it, why should you be paid for it, even in a trade? IMO, it should be NFR or NFT.
 


<< In so many words..... "it wont be happeneing"

I think the rules are fine as is. They clearly lay out what is/is not acceptable. If you do not have time to make an offer for a trade, then don't. Someone will be glad to take your position in line. >>


Yes, the rules clearly lay out what is/is not acceptable. I am stating that there is an inconsistency in the rules when it comes to trading versus selling. If you cannot do it on a sale, why allow it for a trade? Saying, "I have this for trade, make me an offer" is the same as saying "I have this for sale, make me an offer". The latter is not allowed, while the former is. If you don't know what you want in trade for an item, don't bother posting in the first place. If you do know, include it in your message. It's really simple.

As for getting around the rules of not being able to sell NFR software by offering it as a trade, I agree that is jumping into a gray area to skirt the rules.
 


<< Saying, "I have this for trade, make me an offer" is the same as saying "I have this for sale, make me an offer". >>


No quite, but similar. If you've got something to offer in trade, offer it up. If they don't take it, they don't take it. Sooner or later, they'll either start accepting a trade offer or take it elsewhere.



<< As for getting around the rules of not being able to sell NFR software by offering it as a trade... >>

Yeah, it's lame... someone essentially getting something for nothing. But on the other hand, the person in need of the item is either willing to trade an item or items for the goods or not. Similar to the whole UPC bandit conundrum, IMHO, it's just bad ju-ju for traders to engage in this sort of behavior.

It could be argued, I imagine, that you could classify these folks as dealers under the "buying something with the express purpose to bring it here to sell/trade" clause. Hmm, there's a thought. 😉
 
A lot of times when I have items for trade I don't need any specific item,just listing my things as being "for trade" leaves the door open to an interesting offer of hardware or software that I might not have considered or thought of. I think the rules are fine the way they are too.
 
Its a VERY difficult thing to monitor, and the Mods would have to hire another team just to do so. We have primarily an honor system here and it is up to the regulars to keep it that way. I think a trade should be just that on NFR.. not trade and cash. If someone wants to trade a lot of valuable hardware for a free piece of non registerable NFR software, there isnt much you can say, but that they are stupid. If they want to be stupid, thats their business. Im sure there are those who put things like that up for TRADE and trade cash behind the scenes. Also there are peeps who sell NFR as OEM which they should get the smack down if caught. But honestly the only way to keep the forums straight is to deal straight and not let the rule breakers deal with you. Report flagrant violations, and PM those who are questionable. But there is NO WAY to police it all.
 
Cerebus451, no offense, but, I think you are just lazy if you cannot spend 1-2 minutes of your time to type up an offer for a FT item. I do this almost everyday on deals on the board and sometimes you get a no reply or a "NO" answer, but sometimes you hit paydirt and get the "deal of the year" on a trade. I like the FT situation at AT and that is one area that needs no refinement right now IMO.

So....Go out and try a few offers. It's fun with trades, you never know what the person wants or what they know about the market value of what you or they have for trade but, if you are both ethical and honest people and have the item that each other needs......where's the harm? 🙂
 


<< Cerebus451, no offense, but, I think you are just lazy if you cannot spend 1-2 minutes of your time to type up an offer for a FT item. >>


It isn't laziness, it is frustration. I don't really care all that much, I just thought it ironic that if you want to do a trade for cash you have to list a specific cash value, but if you want to trade for items you don't have to list anything. I will simply continue to ignore any threads that do not list the items wanted in trade and go about my business as usual.

BTW, it takes a heck of a lot more than 1-2 minutes to come up with an offer. Without any guidlines from the trader, you have to go through your list of stuff you have to trade and then try and come up with what you are willing to trade, and you have to do so keeping in mind that it has to be a trade you feel the other person would be willing to accept, and yet you don't want to offer up too much if you can get it for less. Kind of like if someone says they want to sell a video card but don't list a price. You don't want to offer up $100 if they are willing to sell it for $75. By the same token you don't want to offer up $10 and insult their intelligence.
 


<< In so many words..... "it wont be happeneing"

I think the rules are fine as is. They clearly lay out what is/is not acceptable. If you do not have time to make an offer for a trade, then don't. Someone will be glad to take your position in line. I also feel the MODs are being generous in allowing the ferengi to peddle off that NFR software. >>



I ditto this. You're like the only one who's complained about this. I honestly don't have a problem with taking a few seconds to PM someone, and offer him a trade. He he denies, then he denies. Sometimes they just aren't looking for a certain thing.
 
The bottom line on trading is value :

GOODS have a value placed on it by the holder or marketplace. If I have stuff I want to get rid off, I place a value on it based on its use to me. If you have something I desire (and hopefully I know the value of your item) I will offer you my goods in exchange for yours. YOU may value my trade more than others as you may DESIRE my goods.

CURRENCY however has a distinct value to everyone. Its value is not based on sentiment (at least not globaly speaking). Hmmm....I wonder if anyone would accept Pesos 😉

The rules are fine the way they are, but maybe people could be required to list what they wanted in trade. This way the first person to meet the requirement would be the buyer. If someone else came along with a better offer, the first person could point out that they have met the deal's requirements and now it should be considered "sold". :|
 
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