Prophet of Sun Belt feels burned

BBond

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Oct 3, 2004
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Here are two articles from the morning paper. One is by a traditional conservative who, like all true conservatives, has had ENOUGH of these bush 'republican' impostors in Washington.

The second article tells bush what America truly thinks of him at this point in time.

Either way, the only people still supporting this fool and his band of criminals are either members of the White House staff or their paid propagandists, some of whom lurk online right here at P&N.

Prophet of Sun Belt feels burned

Kevin Phillips is famed as the man who coined the term "Sun Belt." Almost four decades ago, Phillips predicted that the residents of that part of the country would form the core of what he termed "the emerging Republican majority" in a book with that title.

But he's not happy with the re sults. Phillips is one of a gr owing number of conservatives who are disgusted with the way George W. Bush has squandered the legacy of Ronald Reagan. I spoke to him about his new Bush-bashing book "American Theocracy" just before I left for a week's vacation in North Carolina.

My timing couldn't have been better. The book's thesis is that Bush has turned the GOP over to a bunch of half-wits and holy rollers who are eagerly awaiting Armageddon. To these people, the idea of using nuclear weapons in the Mideast makes perfect sense, he told me.

"The reason people might be willing to nuke Iran is because everything is leading to a second coming anyway," said Phillips.


Republicans in the Northeast may view the end of the world as less than desirable, but the true believers of the Sun Belt see things differently, Phillips told me. When I got south of D.C. on Interstate 95, I began to realize just how differently. On the way down, I'd been listening to a C-SPAN radio station that carried political talk shows as well as presentations on a number of other interesting topics.

I put a CD on for a while. Then somewhere south of Richmond, I went back to scanning the radio dial. Before long, I came upon a discussion of entomology. I figured it was the C-SPAN station again. I listened attentively as the speaker discussed in some detail various types of insects. He seemed to know an awful lot about them. Until he got to the punch line:

"Now, some people think that all of these bugs are descended from a common ancestor long ago," he said. "But of course God made each one of these bugs individually just the way they are today."

This all happened not millions of years ago but just the other day, scientifically speaking. It turned out the bug expert was a professor at Bob Jones University in South Carolina, an outpost of new-Earth creationism. That's the Sun Belt for you. A guy who would barely qualify as a village idiot here in Jersey can teach at some Southern schools.

I was witnessing first hand the essence of Phillips' critique of the Bush era: If you're dumb enough to believe the world was created 6,000 years ago, then you're dumb enough to believe the Bush presidency is going well.

"American Theocracy" offers a detailed and depressing analysis of where the GOP went wrong. Under Bush, Phillips writes, the United States became more and more dependent on expensive foreign oil. Meanwhile, the U.S. economy be came based more and more on borrowing. In the book, Phillips predicted that if the price of oil hit $70 a barrel by 2010, the dollar could crash.

That prediction may come true ahead of schedule. By last week, oil had hit $75. All over the South, people were moaning about the cost of filling up those immense pickups and SUVs they drive for no good reason.

Phillips attributes the runup in oil prices to Bush's bungling in Iraq. The original plan for Iraq, he writes, was for a quick war that would have the effect of "flooding the world with cheap Iraqi production, breaking the back of OPEC, installing ExxonMobil in the rich Majnoon fields, and living happily ever after on twenty-dollar to thirty-dollar oil for America's SUVs and McMansions."

Instead, Bush's failure to plan for the post-invasion period led to ever-higher oil prices. "No U.S. military commitment," he writes, "has so utterly failed in its unspoken objectives."

Phillips told me that Bush deceived the American people on the reason for the Iraq invasion.

"He made a comment that it has nothing to do with oil," Phillips said. "It's hard to avoid concluding that was a lie."


When it comes to oil, Phillips is no fan of the first President Bush either. But unlike his dad, the current President Bush has the added disadvantage of being both in competent and ignorant.

"He's not a deep student of history, and we're paying the price," said Phillips.


There's one table in the back of the book that should be of particular interest to Republicans in New Jersey. Of all the states now known as the "blue" states, New Jersey was the only one to have supported Presidents Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan by majorities exceeding 60 percent.

If there was a point at which the GOP lost Jersey, I suspect it was in the 2000 presidential primary. In a last-ditch effort to stave off John McCain, Bush made a visit to the aforementioned Bob Jones University in South Carolina. That university is not just a center for new-Earth creationism but also a center of anti-Catholic sentiment, among other idiocies. No candidate who possessed the qualifications to be the Republican nominee for president could ever have set foot in such a place. To this date, no one has.

President's approval rating hits a new low of 32 percent

WASHINGTON -- President Bush's public approval rating has fallen to 32 percent, a new low for his presidency, a CNN poll showed yesterday.

The survey also showed that 60 percent of Americans disapprove of the way Bush is handling his job.


Bush's poll numbers have languished below 40 percent in the last couple of months, hit by grow ing public opposition to the Iraq war, his support for a now-aban doned plan for a Dubai firm to take over major U.S. port operations and American anger over gas prices, now topping $3 a gallon at the pump.

Continuing fallout from the Bush administration's mishandling of the initial response to Hurricane Katrina also has hurt his popularity.

Bush's approval rating as measured by CNN's poll dropped from 36 percent in March. His lowest previous job performance measure has been 32 percent, in a Fox News poll this month.

Bush has launched a shakeup of his White House staff in an effort to revive his popularity and stave off concerns of fellow Republicans that they could lose control of both houses of Congress in the November midterm elections.

Bush's response to the gas crisis has been to warn Americans to ex pect a tough summer, vow that price gouging will not be tolerated and try to promote energy alternatives that will take years to get to consumers.

On the issue of Iraq, however, Bush appears to be standing firm.

Before the CNN poll results were released yesterday, Bush said that while some missteps have been made in Iraq, his decision to send in American troops to topple Saddam Hussein was the right call.

"On the big decisions of sending the troops in, I'd have done it again," Bush told a questioner after a speech on immigration in Irvine, Calif.

Once a fool, always a fool.

"I'd have done it again," -- sure, it's not HIS a$$ over there, just like it wasn't his coward a$$ over there in Vietnam. Not bush's a$$. Not dick "other priorities" cheney's a$$ either.

It's easy to make the same mistakes over and over when you aren't the one paying for them but you ARE the one profiting from them.

Right, georgie?

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Well Bush is proving that he is a Uniter, he's uniting real Conservatives with Moderates and Liberals in their disapproval of his job as President.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I love how everyone keeps saying
Bush has squandered the legacy of Ronald Reagan.
He hasn't squandered it. He has embraced it and gone one up on the Gipper.


That is exactly what I always think when I see that line.
 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
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Reagan = Economic libertarian who knew that something must be done about deficits. Reagan also had an administration that was much more responsible with foreign affairs.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Reagan = Economic libertarian who knew that something must be done about deficits. Reagan also had an administration that was much more responsible with foreign affairs.

Yet Reagan's budget deficit and increase in the size of government was outdone by only one other president, george w. bush.

How do you explain the fact that these supposed "small government", "tax cutting" "leaders" both gave America record deficits and the biggest increases in government of any administration?

And how do you explain the nonsense about "tax and spend Democrats" when it is these two republican presidents who hold the number one and two records for budget deficits and increased government? Particularly in light of the fact that it was a Democrat, Bill Clinton, who decreased the deficit to the point of surplus?

 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,516
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Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Reagan = Economic libertarian who knew that something must be done about deficits. Reagan also had an administration that was much more responsible with foreign affairs.


The deficit went through the roof with Reagan, just like Bush. And the size of the government, number of employees, also went up under Reagan, not to sure about under Bush, I am pretty sure it has though.

I will agree that Reagan was much better at foreign affairs, probably just as bad at domestic affairs, though.

When looking at Reagan it is important to look at the real numbers, such as government size, as opposed to just listening to his speeches.
 

BBond

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Oct 3, 2004
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Before this turns into nothing more than a discussion about Reagan (and I can understand why you bush fanboys would want it to), let's focus on the beating bush is taking from true conservatives as well as the beating he's taking in the polls.

Never has any president in my memory deserved beatings like these than our current moron-in-chief and his entire administration. They are, by all standards, the WORST group of incompetent imbeciles ever to "lead" America.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Reagan also had an administration that was much more responsible with foreign affairs.

# Ronald Reagan, president of the United States, for U.S. participation in operation Condor and in the civil wars of El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua (Contras support), and Grenada, and for U.S. bombings in Lebanon, Libya, and Iran. [8] [9]
# Elliott Abrams, Assistant Secretary of State under Reagan, for covering up atrocities committed by the Contras in Nicaragua and other U.S. allies in Central America. [10]
# Casper Weinberger, Secretary of Defense under Reagan, for responsibility for U.S. actions in Central America, the Middle East, and the Caribbean. [11]
# Lt. Colonel Oliver North, assigned to Reagan's National Security Council, for being a prime mover behind the Contras of Nicaragua and for his involvement in the planning of the invasion of Grenada.

Allegations of war crimes against U.S. officials

Iran-Contra Affair

Actually it looks like Reagan is still beating GWB
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Reagan also had an administration that was much more responsible with foreign affairs.

# Ronald Reagan, president of the United States, for U.S. participation in operation Condor and in the civil wars of El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua (Contras support), and Grenada, and for U.S. bombings in Lebanon, Libya, and Iran. [8] [9]
# Elliott Abrams, Assistant Secretary of State under Reagan, for covering up atrocities committed by the Contras in Nicaragua and other U.S. allies in Central America. [10]
# Casper Weinberger, Secretary of Defense under Reagan, for responsibility for U.S. actions in Central America, the Middle East, and the Caribbean. [11]
# Lt. Colonel Oliver North, assigned to Reagan's National Security Council, for being a prime mover behind the Contras of Nicaragua and for his involvement in the planning of the invasion of Grenada.

Allegations of war crimes against U.S. officials

Iran-Contra Affair

Actually it looks like Reagan is still beating GWB

If the republican party would hold the current administration to the standards it held Clinton's administratio to, bush would far surpass Reagan in every negative category.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: BBond

If the republican party would hold the current administration to the standards it held Clinton's administration to, bush would far surpass Reagan in every negative category.

Good point

 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Reagan = Economic libertarian who knew that something must be done about deficits. Reagan also had an administration that was much more responsible with foreign affairs.

Yet Reagan's budget deficit and increase in the size of government was outdone by only one other president, george w. bush.

How do you explain the fact that these supposed "small government", "tax cutting" "leaders" both gave America record deficits and the biggest increases in government of any administration?

And how do you explain the nonsense about "tax and spend Democrats" when it is these two republican presidents who hold the number one and two records for budget deficits and increased government? Particularly in light of the fact that it was a Democrat, Bill Clinton, who decreased the deficit to the point of surplus?

Reagans government was bigger in military, which is acceptable. The military isn't a part of the government that sticks it's nose in the businesses of American citizens.

 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
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I'm amazed that 32% of the population still thinks Bush is doing a good job.

I would love to hear their explanation of how he has improved anything for Americans that hasn't been outweighed by all the negatives.

Edit: And please none of that 'victim of circumstance' BS. There are Presidents who faced far worse and did far better.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
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Originally posted by: Balt
I'm amazed that 32% of the population still thinks Bush is doing a good job.

I would love to hear their explanation of how he has improved anything for Americans that hasn't been outweighed by all the negatives.

Edit: And please none of that 'victim of circumstance' BS. There are Presidents who faced far worse and did far better.

The people I know who support Bush are mostly neoconservative Jewish people, who seem essentially unwilling to acknowledge that there's anything at all wrong with Bush or his performance.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
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Originally posted by: BBond

It's absolutely amazing how far technology has come in only 6,000 years. All the way from creation to idiots belching dogma from satellites.

:roll:

I'm not so sure that this is a good step. I mean, now you have Fundies from all over being taught to misspell directly by Bob Jones himself.

Bob Jones Univerversity Satellite System - $125
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: Balt
I'm amazed that 32% of the population still thinks Bush is doing a good job.

I would love to hear their explanation of how he has improved anything for Americans that hasn't been outweighed by all the negatives.

Edit: And please none of that 'victim of circumstance' BS. There are Presidents who faced far worse and did far better.

The people I know who support Bush are mostly neoconservative Jewish people, who seem essentially unwilling to acknowledge that there's anything at all wrong with Bush or his performance.

Wolfowitz, Perle, et al, and AIPAC -- Israel's Likud party running the US government's Middle East policy.

Blanco Nino -- stop with the disinformation campaign. The size of the military under Reagan has nothing to do with the increase in actual size of the federal government that took place during Reagan's presidency. Reagan campaigned on smaller government then increased the size of the federal bureaucracy to then record proportions. Period. bush has increased both the size of the federal bureaucracy and the federal budget deficit to record proportions again. There is no escaping those facts and no excuses. These so-called "conservatives" campaigned on promises that they blatantly failed to keep.


 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: Balt
I'm amazed that 32% of the population still thinks Bush is doing a good job.

I would love to hear their explanation of how he has improved anything for Americans that hasn't been outweighed by all the negatives.

Edit: And please none of that 'victim of circumstance' BS. There are Presidents who faced far worse and did far better.

The people I know who support Bush are mostly neoconservative Jewish people, who seem essentially unwilling to acknowledge that there's anything at all wrong with Bush or his performance.

Wolfowitz, Perle, et al, and AIPAC -- Israel's Likud party running the US government's Middle East policy.

Blanco Nino -- stop with the disinformation campaign. The size of the military under Reagan has nothing to do with the increase in actual size of the federal government that took place during Reagan's presidency. Reagan campaigned on smaller government then increased the size of the federal bureaucracy to then record proportions. Period. bush has increased both the size of the federal bureaucracy and the federal budget deficit to record proportions again. There is no escaping those facts and no excuses. These so-called "conservatives" campaigned on promises that they blatantly failed to keep.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory12.html

Here's a completely anti-reagan biased website that disagrees with you.

All in all, Reagan allowed the welfare state to enlarge and the military budget to explode, causing monstrous budget deficits and government growth that dwarfs government growth under Clinton, even when Clinton had a Democratic Congress. Reagan?s tax cuts notwithstanding (some of which he reversed), the state grew fat and its growth will inevitably be financed through inflation or tax increases (unless the state defaults).

Do you also realize congress was run by democrats?
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
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71
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Reagan also had an administration that was much more responsible with foreign affairs.

# Ronald Reagan, president of the United States, for U.S. participation in operation Condor and in the civil wars of El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua (Contras support), and Grenada, and for U.S. bombings in Lebanon, Libya, and Iran. [8] [9]
# Elliott Abrams, Assistant Secretary of State under Reagan, for covering up atrocities committed by the Contras in Nicaragua and other U.S. allies in Central America. [10]
# Casper Weinberger, Secretary of Defense under Reagan, for responsibility for U.S. actions in Central America, the Middle East, and the Caribbean. [11]
# Lt. Colonel Oliver North, assigned to Reagan's National Security Council, for being a prime mover behind the Contras of Nicaragua and for his involvement in the planning of the invasion of Grenada.

Allegations of war crimes against U.S. officials

Iran-Contra Affair

Actually it looks like Reagan is still beating GWB


You may have just hit on where out own beloved 'Condor' takes his avatar nickname from.
I remember him saying he did partake in these operations.

 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Reagan also had an administration that was much more responsible with foreign affairs.

# Ronald Reagan, president of the United States, for U.S. participation in operation Condor and in the civil wars of El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua (Contras support), and Grenada, and for U.S. bombings in Lebanon, Libya, and Iran. [8] [9]
# Elliott Abrams, Assistant Secretary of State under Reagan, for covering up atrocities committed by the Contras in Nicaragua and other U.S. allies in Central America. [10]
# Casper Weinberger, Secretary of Defense under Reagan, for responsibility for U.S. actions in Central America, the Middle East, and the Caribbean. [11]
# Lt. Colonel Oliver North, assigned to Reagan's National Security Council, for being a prime mover behind the Contras of Nicaragua and for his involvement in the planning of the invasion of Grenada.

Allegations of war crimes against U.S. officials

Iran-Contra Affair

Actually it looks like Reagan is still beating GWB


You may have just hit on where out own beloved 'Condor' takes his avatar nickname from.
I remember him saying he did partake in these operations.

Oliver North was fired btw.

 

OrganizedChaos

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2002
4,524
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0
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Reagan also had an administration that was much more responsible with foreign affairs.

# Ronald Reagan, president of the United States, for U.S. participation in operation Condor and in the civil wars of El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua (Contras support), and Grenada, and for U.S. bombings in Lebanon, Libya, and Iran. [8] [9]
# Elliott Abrams, Assistant Secretary of State under Reagan, for covering up atrocities committed by the Contras in Nicaragua and other U.S. allies in Central America. [10]
# Casper Weinberger, Secretary of Defense under Reagan, for responsibility for U.S. actions in Central America, the Middle East, and the Caribbean. [11]
# Lt. Colonel Oliver North, assigned to Reagan's National Security Council, for being a prime mover behind the Contras of Nicaragua and for his involvement in the planning of the invasion of Grenada.

Allegations of war crimes against U.S. officials

Iran-Contra Affair

Actually it looks like Reagan is still beating GWB


You may have just hit on where out own beloved 'Condor' takes his avatar nickname from.
I remember him saying he did partake in these operations.

Oliver North was fired btw.

no, just transfered to the propaganda department
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Ronald Reagan was a man whose entire life was based on hollywood hype----but in the low point in the Iran Contra scandal he was at least able to admit to the American people--"that as much as he would like the charges of selling arms to Iran to be false, he had to admit that it was in fact true.

Can any see GWB doing the same?

Which is why I see the present 32% or so popularity to be just be a present point-----and soon GWB would like to be at least that popular again. How low can he go is now the question.-----or how low can he go before he resigns, is impeached, or goes off to the Hague for that command performance?

Do I hear 30%--there in the corner--they bid 27%--do I hear 22%--wait wait--gas just hit $5.00 a gallon--do I hear 18%.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ronald Reagan was a man whose entire life was based on hollywood hype----but in the low point in the Iran Contra scandal he was at least able to admit to the American people--"that as much as he would like the charges of selling arms to Iran to be false, he had to admit that it was in fact true.

Can any see GWB doing the same?

Which is why I see the present 32% or so popularity to be just be a present point-----and soon GWB would like to be at least that popular again. How low can he go is now the question.-----or how low can he go before he resigns, is impeached, or goes off to the Hague for that command performance?

Do I hear 30%--there in the corner--they bid 27%--do I hear 22%--wait wait--gas just hit $5.00 a gallon--do I hear 18%.

bush finds it impossible to admit to ever making a mistake because he has never, in his entire life, been held responsible for his mistakes. Drug use, no problem, daddy will fix it. Get him off the hook and purge his criminal record. TXANG, no problem. Use it to get out of the Vietnam draft then walk away while daddy and his friends have those files purged too.

I'm surprised that bush's popularity isn't in the single digits. The only reason he isn't is the American people's stupidity. For some reason, fear, apathy, greed, coopted lackey press, I don't know which, they simply allow this charlatan to continue on his irresponsible, incompetent course -- and we're all paying dearly for allowing him to continue, every single day.

Hey America, why don't you hold bush to the same standards you helped the republicans hold Clinton to?

:roll:

No one can escape the consequences of their actions forever, and the consequences of their actions increase the longer they are delayed. That goes for nations as well as individuals. Until America demands accountability for the myriad crimes and outright incompetence that has led us to our current dismal state of affairs we will continue to learn this immutable lesson the hard way.