Projector Image Tearing - Determing the source!

[Saga]

Alrighty. I've had a few other threads going on various things about the new home setup. Essentially it's currently PS3 -> HDMI to a VSX 820-K Pioneer receiver's BD in -> HDMI out to an Optoma HD20 Projector. This setup was working flawlessly until while out shopping I picked up a pair of Belkin 1.3 HDMI cables to replace the cables that were temporarily connecting ghese devices (one is a 1.3 generic picked off off monoprice that was hijacked from the living room Samsung Blu-Ray player, the other was the 360 HDMi cable).

After plugging in both the Belkin cables I through on a full 16:9 ratio Avatar to check to make sure everything was clear and immediately noticed that the top inch or so on a 90 inch diagonal screen was showing some image tear - about 3-5 pixels horizontally to the left of the rest of the image. This ONLY happens during fast paced scenes, the tearing is not present when there is little/no movement.

Since then I have troubleshooted by doing the following:

- Removing the new pair of Belkin cables and individually going from source (PS3) to the Projector's HDMI input, bypassing the receiver entirely. Same result.
- Individually trying EACH of the old cables that worked prior to putting in the new ones. Same result.
- Tried ALL four cables individually from the Samsung Blu-Ray player in the living room that works flawlessly with our 50" LG. Same result.
- Manually set the movies to 60hz and 24hz respectfully, using all 4 cables. Same result.

I don't notice this at all with movies that have the black bar on the top and bottom (so not full 16:9), but the entire point of this setup is for movies.

Two things worth mentioning:

- This only happened after I applied the last PS3 update. But that doesn't explain why the Samsung shows the same tearing.
- Games do not show the tearing. Just threw in Final Fantasy for some high-end motion sickness from the end scenes of the game and did NOT notice the tearing.

So at this point, my only hypothesis is that something is now fucked with the HDMI input's on the HD20 (happens on both HDMI1 and HDMI2). Any other suggestions before I'm forced to RMA the projector?

 

[Saga]

Seriously, no suggestions before I'm without my primary theater for the three weeks it's going to take Newegg to RMA it? =(

Willing to try just about anything I may have forgotten to try at this point.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

- Tried ALL four cables individually from the Samsung Blu-Ray player in the living room that works flawlessly with our 50" LG. Same result.

Does this mean you tried the Samsung as source for the projector, or just the cables?

 

[Saga]

Does this mean you tried the Samsung as source for the projector, or just the cables?

Just the cables. As of last night, I finally removed the Samsung from the living room and hooked it up to the projector and the tearing is NOT present.. making this definitely a PS3 issue. This only happened after the last update (3.41 I believe?).

So is there any way of reverting/reinstalling 3.41 to test this to attempt to determine if I've simply damaged the HDMI out pin headers or if this is a software issue? I've changed practically every conceivable setting on the PS3 and the problem persists on ALL 1080 sources.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Could you test out Component from the PS3?

 

[Saga]

Same issue with the component out. I think I've stumbled onto the issue. I've found a few forum posts on other boards specifically related to this problem. The only variable I can't pin seems to be the player. I saw this thread

http://www.forumlogr.com/thread/kbt...tearing-@-1080p/24Hz-aspect-ratio-1.78:1.html

I wonder if anyone has experienced a slight tearing of the image produced by the optoma HD20 when displaying bluray movies at 24Hz which have an IMAX ratio 1.78:1 (Avatar & Dark Knight). The top approx 10% of the screen looks out of sync with the rest.

This does not occur at 60Hz or with...

and it describes the issue to the letter - screen tearing at the top of the image but ONLY using IMAX 1.78:1 ratio's and only when using 24hz.. I verified this by manually setting the PS3 to 60hz and playing Avatar (which I SWORE I did during all of this troubleshooting) and the tearing was gone.

Optoma asked me to send my HD20 to them for a potential firmware update, but if this issue was just introduced as of the PS3's 3.41 update (which would be a big YES by the fact that 3.41 was Re-released 8/2 and the forum threads I'm reading are ALL 8/1 and beyond..) I don't think I should risk sending it to them so soon just to have to potentially send it back later.

For now, manually setting the PS3 to output only 60hz seems to have solved my issue.. though the projector should certainly be capable of 1.78:1 at 24hz.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

good luck

 

[Saga]

Shit, I'm just glad I didn't have to try and go through the ridiculous shenanigans that is finding a fucking purchase receipt to send my PS3 back to Sony. Worst company in the world for customer service on returns, they make it hard as hell to send a unit back to them - it's actually a little hilarious when I have sent two 360's back to Microsoft and they just ship me a box without even asking for my serial number, but the PS3 fails UNDER warranty and if I can't find the receipt I'm forced to buy a new PS3.. guess that's typical Sony. Amusing I'd rather have a Microsoft product even assuming it would fail simply because getting the replacement is overall painless sans a phone call and some shipping time.

Regardless, I can deal with sticking IMAX ratio movies onto a forced 60hz if that's all it is. I'm just glad it's not something I have to spend money to fix!

 

[electroju]

Check if your PlayStation 3 has V-Sync and Triple Buffering. If it does, enable both.

Video tearing will always be around. LCD are slow and DLP are a lot faster although even the fastest video technology can not fix slow electronics. It is best to buy better equipment instead of being cheap.

 

[Saga]

While the HD20 is considered entry-level, it had superior features to every single $2,500-$3,000 projector I was looking at when building this out.. hardly call that for the cheap. =P

I'm not seeing anything online or in the PlayStation menu for modifying the buffering options or enabling/disabling v-sync.. is this a user toggle or do I need to do something in safe mode?

 

[themisfit610]

Look into using Media Player Classic - Home Cinema for playing media on your PC. Try both 24hz and 60hz refresh rates with this. There is lots of info on doom9 out there about tweaking it for various setups. There's a LOT of stuff to tweak if you really want to.

I just use defaults for the EVR custom presenter, which totally fixes tearing on my BenQ 24" LCD at 60Hz. Other players like VLC tear so much (and have so many other issues) that I'd never look back. EVER.

Derek

 

[Saga]

The more I search for this 24hz issue with the Optoma HD20 the more information I'm finding about it. Most people say the bottom of the screen, but they're sitting it on a table of some sort, ceiling mounted the tear is on the top.

The scary thing is one thread from about six months ago stated Optoma had no plans to fix it, yet when I call them they ask for me to send in my unit to "test" it and don't acknowledge ever having heard of this issue. Actually, the rep I've spoken with on the phone three out of the four times I've called them (so probably a very small support staff) was quite rude about the entire issue, and simply kept repeating "please fill out the RMA form and send it in so we can test it" when I pressed to inquire why there are so many threads on the internet dating back six+ months but their internal support has never heard of the issue.

Seems to be a projector issue. It's supposed to be able to support 24hz but fails to do so on any IMAX resolution video.

 

[Saga]

Look into using Media Player Classic - Home Cinema for playing media on your PC. Try both 24hz and 60hz refresh rates with this. There is lots of info on doom9 out there about tweaking it for various setups. There's a LOT of stuff to tweak if you really want to.

I just use defaults for the EVR custom presenter, which totally fixes tearing on my BenQ 24" LCD at 60Hz. Other players like VLC tear so much (and have so many other issues) that I'd never look back. EVER.

Derek

Thanks Derek, but seeing as how this is a PS3 -> DLP Projector setup none of that advice is really relevant. Will keep it in mind if I ever encounter the issues on a monitor, however!

 

[mounir]

Hello,

i am french, and i bought there is 6months ago an optoma hd8600, and i ve got the same things that you, some tearing on the top of the screen only while diffusing an 1.78 ratio movie, and as you, it comes when there's fast movements, and i have a friend of mine who told me that il may come from my BD pioneer player.
What about you, have you resolve your problem? Did it come from your PS3 or your hd20

Thanks a lot

Mounir.