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Project Management-- a good, well-paying job?

F

Flyback

Golden Member
I'm newer around here but I figured you guys of all people (probably many of you are project managers on this forum?) would be able to help me.

I'm finishing up my undergrad in CS with a 4.0 cumulative GPA (major and overall).

I really love programming but boring school projects took the fun out of programming--I no longer code for fun once I'm done with dinky little school projects. I thought that I should go into a career that doesn't involve programming as I could ENJOY computers again and keep it strictly hobby--I know that I could love programming and be passionate about it again.

Since I'm young, have a good GPA and can secure the money, I should go for a masters degree. More particularly, if I went for a masters in management or perhaps some MBA (if thats even possible without business foundations?) I could become a project manager someday.

After doing masters, I could then work for a few years while I'm young and single, bust my balls really hard and get promoted to a management-like position. All the while I'd be taking some courses / certifications in finance through nightschooling (BTW I've done some nightschooling before while working...not fun but I know what I'm getting into).

What sort of outcome would this have, given that I already have a strong knowledge of programming? Is project management a good career? Reliable?

What kind of pay can a project manager from a good grad school, who has knowledge of computing and finance, with say 5 years of experience--what kind of salary can they command?

thanks.

Edit: I wrote "finance", but I could easily do some econ (given I am good at math) or insurance-related courses.
 
Toronto, Canada

BTW, thinking about York University's Schulich School of Business (if they accept non-business majors into their MBA?...and if it isn't overwhelming for a CS background)
 
Sheesh dude, 4.0 gpa? Although impressive, it's no suprise that you're burnt out on CS. It sounds like you spent every waking hour doing schoolwork.

 
Originally posted by: apac
Sheesh dude, 4.0 gpa? Although impressive, it's no suprise that you're burnt out on CS. It sounds like you spent every waking hour doing schoolwork.
Click to expand...

"burnt out" is an understatement. I past that stage back in first year 😉

I worked full-time one semester, too. I had managed to get my classes into 4 days/week, then from saturday through to monday I worked 3 twelve hour shifts.

I was so burnt out at the end of that. Fortunately my GPA pulled through. I really respect people who work and go to school. Those with families get even more respect (married and/or have kids of their own).

I've since cut back and I'm now pulling 18 hours/week but I still feel the pain as I have six courses this semester. My social life? I basically go out and drink each Friday, then study all weekend, work weeknights 😉 My job is somewhat easier though in that I have a lot of downtime so I do homework there.
 
Generally, if you want to do an MBA, you need to get a few years of work experience first (to get into the good schools).
 
I do project management work. My current title is senior business analyst (step below PM, at this point.)

A regular PM in my area (Seattle) will probably make $75-85k. In our company, that involves 60+ hour weeks. You WILL bust your balls in project management. A program manager (that is, a PM over other PMs) will make in the 100k range, but you have to be a kickass project manager to even have a shot at that.

What I would recommend is to go get yourself some business analyst work for 6 months to a year right now and see if you like it. It will give you a break from school and give you a chance to decide whether you like the work.

Personally, I like what I do. I stress like crazy about lots of it, but it really does keep me occupied and I'm never bored.
 
PM pays well, much better than the people who actually do the work. But I agree with HotChic, get some employment experience under your belt and get into a better school.

In our area (NJ/NY) a PM with a masters from a good school will make in upwards of $85k, probably closer to six figures with some decent history... Lots of big financial firms in the area who are constantly throwing money at new projects {and then scrapping them when they are 90% complete, which is good for PM's 🙂 }
 
Of course when the economy turns down PM's are some of the first to get cut as companys want to save money so they cut some projects and PM's make a good amount of money so they have to go.

My brother is a PM and makes 100k+ but has switched jobs several times when the market moves and also have worked MANY longs weeks as Hotchic has stated. Let alone all the time he HAS to leave the country to look over a project or site.
 
One of our big (hundred million $ +) customers send over one of their PMs today. One of our PMs spent the morning getting an earful. I walked by his cube at 2 PM and he was playing with dates and schedules. Three hours later, he was still playing with the same dates and schedules.
 
Originally posted by: msparish
Generally, if you want to do an MBA, you need to get a few years of work experience first (to get into the good schools).
Click to expand...


QFT. You have a good plan, but you need min 3 years work exp to get into a top 10, and that is where you will want to go.
 
Jeebus, don't do project management.
I am in project management, but I am also a design engineer. (Yep, I wear two hats for my company.) I have been here for almost 3 years, and I am at $55k. I finished a masters degree in engineering a year and a half ago.

If you like being awake at all hours of the night, phone calls to your home and personal cell during non-working hours, then stick to project management. But if you want a job that is 8-5 + overtime, stick with CS.
 
Originally posted by: radioouman
Jeebus, don't do project management.
I am in project management, but I am also a design engineer. (Yep, I wear two hats for my company.) I have been here for almost 3 years, and I am at $55k. I finished a masters degree in engineering a year and a half ago.

If you like being awake at all hours of the night, phone calls to your home and personal cell during non-working hours, then stick to project management. But if you want a job that is 8-5 + overtime, stick with CS.
Click to expand...

Project Management in the auto industry sucks 😉.
 
All of the project managers in my office worked for years as programmers before being promoted to PM. They're all 30s+
 
Originally posted by: Flyback
I'm newer around here but I figured you guys of all people (probably many of you are project managers on this forum?) would be able to help me.

I'm finishing up my undergrad in CS with a 4.0 cumulative GPA (major and overall).

I really love programming but boring school projects took the fun out of programming--I no longer code for fun once I'm done with dinky little school projects. I thought that I should go into a career that doesn't involve programming as I could ENJOY computers again and keep it strictly hobby--I know that I could love programming and be passionate about it again.

Since I'm young, have a good GPA and can secure the money, I should go for a masters degree. More particularly, if I went for a masters in management or perhaps some MBA (if thats even possible without business foundations?) I could become a project manager someday.

After doing masters, I could then work for a few years while I'm young and single, bust my balls really hard and get promoted to a management-like position. All the while I'd be taking some courses / certifications in finance through nightschooling (BTW I've done some nightschooling before while working...not fun but I know what I'm getting into).

What sort of outcome would this have, given that I already have a strong knowledge of programming? Is project management a good career? Reliable?

What kind of pay can a project manager from a good grad school, who has knowledge of computing and finance, with say 5 years of experience--what kind of salary can they command?

thanks.

Edit: I wrote "finance", but I could easily do some econ (given I am good at math) or insurance-related courses.
Click to expand...

for proj mgmt, get the PMI certification.

step1: you MUST take the official PMI training course. (they wont give you the cert if u take a 3rd party training class.)
2) pass the pmi test

The pmi test is HARD. Majority of people fail the 1st time around. (this was 4years ago. A new version of the test came out recently.)

You need patience and diplomacy because everyone will be dinging you cause you're the head of the project.

oh, knowing MS Project (at least intermediate level) is a MUST, imo.
 
I'm confused.

You are willing to take a job and work 40-60+ hours a week even though you admit it is not something you love to do just to be able to get back the love of something you will have trouble finding time to do.

My advice - start working in CS programming and find other hobbies that you love doing. It is so much easier to find activities/hobbies that you love than it is to find something you can do professionally that you love.
 
as a PM, you won't do much, or any, programming. it's a lot of resourcing, scheduling, meetings, dealing with clients, dealing with engineers who know their ****** (as well as engineers who think they're the ******). it's a lot of work.

oh, and you really, really have to be a people person.
 
Originally posted by: HN
as a PM, you won't do much, or any, programming. it's a lot of resourcing, scheduling, meetings, dealing with clients, dealing with engineers who know their ****** (as well as engineers who think they're the ******). it's a lot of work.

oh, and you really, really have to be a people person.
Click to expand...

True stuff. And if you're not a people person, you need to learn to hide your impulses to strangle stupid people. Hide them very well...
 
The scope of work for a project mgr will vary a lot. Personally, I've ruled out a career in mgmt--I don't want to deal with the stress and being accountable for OTHER people's work.
 
Project management varies from city to city and the company you work for (or whether you're an independent).

I would suggest completing your masters and perhaps simultaneously get a degree in business. Once your out of school, you can take classes and get certified by the Project Management Institute.

Once you are certified, and with your background in computers and business, you will easily get hired as a project manager. I'm assuming it would be for software related projects. I would estimate your starting pay easily upwards of 80K ranging a lot higher with experience and seniority (Because then you'll be put in charge of much larger/important projects).

One positive about PM is that you can move around from field to field. Knowing how to manage makes you universally adaptable (just don't be a schmuk!).
 
Originally posted by: FoBoT
i hate project managers, so worthless
Click to expand...
I sometimes feel that way myself. I work in the advertising industry (although in the online world so we're also dealing with programmers/designers) and we have project managers in every sector of our business. A lot of the times the work they do seems to be little more than secretarial.

But when we get really busy I can see the value as its helpful to have one or two people who know the grand design of what's going on and can prioritize tasks accordingly. We'll have three programmers/designers working on 3 different things. While they can compare notes among themselves at times, they might not all get the bigger picture or understand the client's needs, deadlines, priority, etc.

My only pet peeve is more political. Around here, project managers manage the workflow, but they are NOT your supervisor. Some of our project managers sometimes forget that. You are NOT my boss. I work with you, but I don't report to you. And in my business anyway, most of our project managers make less than the programmers/designers/creatives.
 
Originally posted by: Parrotheader
Originally posted by: FoBoT
i hate project managers, so worthless
Click to expand...
I sometimes feel that way myself. I work in the advertising industry (although in the online world so we're also dealing with programmers/designers) and we have project managers in every sector of our business. A lot of the times the work they do seems to be little more than secretarial.

But when we get really busy I can see the value as its helpful to have one or two people who know the grand design of what's going on and can prioritize tasks accordingly. We'll have three programmers/designers working on 3 different things. While they can compare notes among themselves at times, they might not all get the bigger picture or understand the client's needs, deadlines, priority, etc.

My only pet peeve is more political. Around here, project managers manage the workflow, but they are NOT your supervisor. Some of our project managers sometimes forget that. You are NOT my boss. I work with you, but I don't report to you. And in my business anyway, most of our project managers make less than the programmers/designers/creatives.
Click to expand...

also, if there's a snag in the development process, someone has to talk to the client in a way that gets them to understand what's going on and not to lose their business. a LOT of know-it-alls lack this sort of tact and should really appreciate that someone (their PM) can do it.
 
Originally posted by: Parrotheader
A lot of the times the work they do seems to be little more than secretarial.
Click to expand...

ding! ding! ding!

they don't actually do any work that contributes to the thing that the project is about

they are just babysitters watching others do real work

at least that is what i see around here

Originally posted by: Parrotheader
its helpful to have one or two people who know the grand design of what's going on and can prioritize tasks accordingly.
Click to expand...

ours must suck, they don't seem to have a CLUE about details of the design, sure they make these GIANT excel spreadsheets of requirements, but they don't UNDERSTAND any of it

they just make excel sheets, visios, powerpoint and hold conf. calls and meetings out the wazzoo all the while with 3 blackberries glued to their heads

they don't write any code, they don't develop any processes , they don't write any documentation
 
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