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Progress is made through Liberalism, not Conservatism

S

sigurros81

Platinum Member
Note that I am not intending for this thread to be flaming one ideology or another, I'm am just sharing my own observation.

In the recorded history of mankind, has progress, both scientific and social, ever been made in the name of conservatism? I've been trying to think hard and I cannot think of one instance. If anything, conservatism has put a stranglehold on progress.
 
Oh ya, all those restrictions and regulations the conservatives are favor of sure have put a stranglehold on progress.
 
When an ideology grounded in religious values, it's hard for a society to move beyond anything that is written in its doctrines.

-The Heliocentric theory at the time was heretical.
-Woman's Suffrage
-equality

These are some examples of ideals that conservatism historically has issues with.
 
sigurros81 said:
When an ideology grounded in religious values, it's hard for a society to move beyond anything that is written in its doctrines.

-The Heliocentric theory at the time was heretical.
-Woman's Suffrage
-equality

These are some examples of ideals that conservatism historically has issues with.
Click to expand...

Internationally and philosophically, the US is a liberal democracy and we are all basically liberals. What conservatives today in America are, are a slightly different strain of this liberalism than non-conservatives. You are being sloppy by mixing and terms and contexts. Ignorant people and hacks do this all the time. Time, place, and political context means a lot. You might try and compare "liberalism" and "conservatism" today, in America... and start by defining those terms first. Otherwise you're practicing stupidity. I'm sure almost all conservatives today in America believe in life, liberty, and property. I'm sure nearly all believe in free speech, fair elections, and due process.

This is a fail thread.
 
cwjerome said:
Internationally and philosophically, the US is a liberal democracy and we are all basically liberals. What conservatives today in America are, are a slightly different strain of this liberalism than non-conservatives. You are being sloppy by mixing and terms and contexts. Ignorant people and hacks do this all the time. Time, place, and political context means a lot. You might try and compare "liberalism" and "conservatism" today, in America... and start by defining those terms first. Otherwise you're practicing stupidity. I'm sure almost all conservatives today in America believe in life, liberty, and property. I'm sure nearly all believe in free speech, fair elections, and due process.

This is a fail thread.
Click to expand...

Of course the definition of conservatism or liberalism changes with the time and era, as with policies. Of course a conservative in modern America would be considered a crazy whacko in back in the 1700s. What's your point? Because it doesn't change the original intent of my post.

My point is, there has always been a conflict between conservatism vs. liberalism, and in the end, logic and rationality tend to favor the liberal ideology.
 
The battle between conservatism and liberalism, the way you're presenting it, is much more a conflict between those with power and those without. Those who had power wanted to conserve it. New ideas and change was a threat.

Myself and people I know who call themselves conservatives to some degree are not trying to conserve power and we are not against new ideas and change. We are against bad ideas or change for the sake of change. What we believe is that an adaptive, dynamic society that excels and progresses is more the result of a smaller government with free minds and free trade than central planning and oppressive government meddling.

I know exactly what you are trying to do. Make dumb comparisons to paint a deceiving picture. I do not think a partisan like yourself could do otherwise. There is no honesty or sincerity is what you're doing, you're just playing the brainless political game like a good exploited little minion.
 
cwjerome said:
Myself and people I know who call themselves conservatives to some degree are not trying to conserve power and we are not against new ideas and change. We are against bad ideas or change for the sake of change. What we believe is that an adaptive, dynamic society that excels and progresses is more the result of a smaller government with free minds and free trade than central planning and oppressive government meddling.
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Pretty much. The people we call liberals and conservatives are already grouped within a subset called Western liberal society. The divide we so bitterly struggle upon is simply about how to best to govern that society, not whether people should be free or open to change.
 
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To be more accurate, liberals do nothing to push society forward, it is the few actual lefties who speak out and fight injustice, and sooner or later the bourgeoisie liberals hop on board when it's safe with none of that getting beaten by cops thing or getting dirty.

In reality it only takes a few ballsy good folks to speak out. This annoys Conservatives endlessly as they think throwing money (or having money) makes legitimacy to a society. This is a religious mindset of worshiping the dollar. They will never catch up with society as they only have a plastic fake copy to run with.
 
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cwjerome said:
I know exactly what you are trying to do. Make dumb comparisons to paint a deceiving picture. I do not think a partisan like yourself could do otherwise. There is no honesty or sincerity is what you're doing, you're just playing the brainless political game like a good exploited little minion.
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Could not agree more.


It almost sounds like "conservatives" (in other words, religions) are holding us back and they need to go...
 
Genx87 said:
Or Nuclear energy?
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Nuclear is failed cold war tech. You all are just stuck in the past to uphold a giant corrupt government/industry who feeds you BS.

But hey, if they have money to lie to you, it MUST be true. Suckers.

And you all call yourselves conservatives? LOL

Conservatives are just big govt/corporate PR bitches too stupid to draw a check from the people you lie for.
 
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yllus said:
Pretty much. The people we call liberals and conservatives are already grouped within a subset of Western liberal society. The divide we so bitterly struggle upon is simply about how best to govern that society, not whether people should be free or open to change.
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Yes, because the idea of a person marrying someone else of the same sex is so horrible in its effects on how a society will hold together.

Progress will be made, but slowed by conservatism. People, sooner or later, will move forward with change and progress, it's just too bad that conservative ideologies are what holding us back.
 
Steeplerot said:
Nuclear is failed cold war tech. You all are just stuck in the past to uphold a giant corrupt government/industry who feeds you BS.

But hey, if they have money to lie to you, it MUST be true. Suckers.

And you all call yourselves conservatives? LOL
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Sure it is, what "new" technology do you propose replace it?

Let me guess wind or solar? Two technologies that have taken 30 years worth of subsidies and still fall flat on their face.
 
Genx87 said:
Hey look out east. Those anti free market laws(anti-gouging) are really helping New Yorkers get gas. I am sure they appreciate buying gasoline on the black market like a drug user for 20 bucks a gallon.
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A few anecdotal stories dumbed down to talking points. This is you guys world you live in, taylored and packaged by the corporate establishment for the stupid to digest. Maybe you will get a medal one day for sticking up for the powerful? Nah, you will just be used and spit out. Like the naive fool you show yourself to be endlessly with your serious lack of critical thinking facilities.

You folks have serious daddy/authoritarian issues to be so irrational.
 
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