Profitless Profiteering: Why can't Halliburton make good money in Iraq?

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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Profitless Profiteering
Why can't Halliburton make good money in Iraq?
By Daniel Gross
Posted Thursday, April 29, 2004, at 12:47 PM PT

Is it war profiteering if you barely make a profit on your war work?

In March 2003, the KBR unit of Halliburton, the oil-services company formerly run by Vice President Dick Cheney, controversially received huge no-bid contracts to provide a range of services in Iraq?everything from fixing oil fields to delivering fuel to feeding soldiers. For many administration critics, KBR's central role in the reconstruction of Iraq stands as evidence that the war in Iraq was a pretext for crony capitalists to grow fat on borrowed taxpayer dollars.

But here's the funny thing. So far, the Iraq war hasn't proved much of a boon for Halliburton's shareholders. Because of incompetence, the chaos of working in the war zone, and a contract that limits profits, KBR's margins on its hazardous work are pretty marginal.

The Wall Street Journal notes that the Iraq contracts call for KBR to be reimbursed for its costs plus 1 percent. The company can also bill the military for a portion of its administration and overhead and can earn performance bonuses. KBR spends a lot of effort funneling taxpayer money to subcontractors, who may themselves be getting rich off of Iraq-related work. Meanwhile, the Iraq work has required KBR to incur big expenses of its own?higher insurance costs for operating in a hazardous region, recruiting costs for hiring new employees for dangerous duty, and administrative costs for handling a huge amount of new business quickly.

An excellent front-page article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal by Russell Gold shows that, depending on how you look at it, KBR has either made the best of a horrible situation or has screwed up big time. At times, KBR seems to function more like a dot-com on its last legs than the ultra-efficient logistics unit of a Fortune 500 company. Suppliers don't get paid and invoices are routinely lost. As KBR rushed into Iraq, "Many of its systems, from procurement to billing, got overloaded, creating a breeding ground for potential corruption and more inflated prices?not to mention inefficiency on a huge scale," Gold writes.

When you're a logistics company?and one working on a 1 percent profit margin?inefficiency is a killer. That's why for service companies like Halliburton, landing huge contracts is less than half the battle. Improperly executed, a huge contract can become a gigantic liability. So while KBR may land deals because of its connections and experience, it hasn't shown much ability of late to carry them out profitably.

According to Halliburton's most recent quarterly results, released yesterday, its KBR unit lost $15 million in the first quarter, largely because of a $97 million loss on an ill-fated project in Brazil, even though revenues for the unit doubled to $3.7 billion. Iraq was a fairly dim bright light. "Halliburton's Iraq-related work contributed approximately $2.1 billion in revenues in the first quarter 2004 and $32 million in operating income," the company reported. That's a margin of 1.5 percent.

The previous quarter, KBR reported $2.2 billion in Iraq-related revenues and operating income of $44 million?a 2 percent margin. And in the third quarter of 2003, KBR had $900 million in Iraq revenues and operating income of $34 million?a 3.7 percent margin. As time goes on, in other words, KBR's profits in Iraq are shrinking in both real and proportional terms. Worse, for KBR, this may be as good as it gets. Even though it received a $1.2 billion contract from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to continue working on the Restore Iraqi Oil program in January, the unit's backlog of work has shrunk.

What's more, KBR may ultimately pay the price for its success in monopolizing Pentagon business in Iraq. Halliburton and the Pentagon have become dependent on each other, and that may be bad for both of them. It would be extremely difficult for the Pentagon to switch master contractors in the middle of a war. And for Halliburton, the Pentagon may prove to be a capricious, highly demanding, and unpredictable client.

KBR is now under criminal investigation by the Pentagon over claims it overcharged for fuel delivered from Kuwait. The Pentagon is also looking into dining-hall contracts allegedly awarded without competitive bids. And annoyed at repeated billing screw-ups, the Pentagon is withholding hundreds of millions of dollars in payments to KBR. Any of these conflicts could further erode KBR's margins.

KBR hasn't lost money on its sweetheart Iraq contracts?yet. It has made a small profit. But the amounts are nothing to write home about?and they're certainly not worth starting a war over.

Slate.com
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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DealMonkey.

Aren't you tired of your lies yet.

The war was not started so Haliburton could make money. That is a lie that you are spreading.

I'd ask if you had any shame but you must have some honor to feel that emotion.


Before you come back with the old "but Bush lied" democratic line, be prepared to prove that he knew the intelligance was faulty. Not just your , but he must have known, proof that would stand up in court. Otherwise you would just be spreading more BS.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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IF Bush relied on his own intelligence to interpret the intelligence reports then the Intelligence was faulty :p
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
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Originally posted by: dahunan
IF Bush relied on his own intelligence to interpret the intelligence reports then the Intelligence was faulty :p


Come back when you can make a worthwhile post twerp.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
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Originally posted by: etech
DealMonkey.

Aren't you tired of your lies yet.

The war was not started so Haliburton could make money. That is a lie that you are spreading.

I'd ask if you had any shame but you must have some honor to feel that emotion.


Before you come back with the old "but Bush lied" democratic line, be prepared to prove that he knew the intelligance was faulty. Not just your , but he must have known, proof that would stand up in court. Otherwise you would just be spreading more BS.

Excuse me, but this article (posted verbatim) actually TAKES Halliburton's side by claiming there's hardly any profit to be had. Frankly, I don't know what the hell you're talking about -- you'd think you would be happy that I'm exposing the supposed motivation that Halliburton is making tons of money in Iraq.

I guess the bottom line etech is that you're content to knee-jerk no matter what I post. Get a clue.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
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Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: dahunan
IF Bush relied on his own intelligence to interpret the intelligence reports then the Intelligence was faulty :p


Come back when you can make a worthwhile post twerp.

boo hoo.. you called me a "twerp"
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: etech
DealMonkey.

Aren't you tired of your lies yet.

The war was not started so Haliburton could make money. That is a lie that you are spreading.

I'd ask if you had any shame but you must have some honor to feel that emotion.


Before you come back with the old "but Bush lied" democratic line, be prepared to prove that he knew the intelligance was faulty. Not just your , but he must have known, proof that would stand up in court. Otherwise you would just be spreading more BS.

Excuse me, but this article (posted verbatim) actually TAKES Halliburton's side by claiming there's hardly any profit to be had. Frankly, I don't know what the hell you're talking about -- you'd think you would be happy that I'm exposing the supposed motivation that Halliburton is making tons of money in Iraq.

I guess the bottom line etech is that you're content to knee-jerk no matter what I post. Get a clue.


How much money should companies make from the deaths of American Servicemen and Women?
We are so fvcking superior that we cannot even provide our soldiers with an adequate supply of bulletproof jackets ... when I hear information like that I am convinced that someone stole the money that could have manufactured those jackets!
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
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Originally posted by: dahunan
How much money should companies make from the deaths of American Servicemen and Women?
We are so fvcking superior that we cannot even provide our soldiers with an adequate supply of bulletproof jackets ... when I hear information like that I am convinced that someone stole the money that could have manufactured those jackets!
You know, I don't know dahunan, but I do know the subcontractors that Halliburton hires probably make a nice profit. From a business stand-point, I'd much rather be a Halliburton subcontractor than a Halliburton exec.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: dahunan
How much money should companies make from the deaths of American Servicemen and Women?
We are so fvcking superior that we cannot even provide our soldiers with an adequate supply of bulletproof jackets ... when I hear information like that I am convinced that someone stole the money that could have manufactured those jackets!
You know, I don't know dahunan, but I do know the subcontractors that Halliburton hires probably make a nice profit. From a business stand-point, I'd much rather be a Halliburton subcontractor than a Halliburton exec.

They subcontract out to their own little daughter companies :D ;)

They keep ALL the dough AND MORE!
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Ahh, yes, back to the "Prove Bush Lied" routine- quite the backpedal from "We have Proof!" of yesteryear.

It's like saying "Prove the sun will come up in the morning."

Besides, it was Bush and his minions who made the original assertions, and they bear the burden of proof, a burden they seek to shed with arguments like those posed by Etech. Either they lied or they're incompetent- take your pick.

http://www.house.gov/reform/min/pdfs_108_2/pdfs_inves/pdf_admin_iraq_on_the_record_rep.pdf

Halliburton gets 1% after expenses, and as any good govt contract accountant knows, the profit is in the expenses and the overhead, farmed out to Indonesian companies incorporated in the Bahamas, banking in the Netherland Antilles, doing business with Haliburton in partnership with a Cayman island firm providing Thai food service workers, all of whom are owned in whole or part by the Principals of Halliburton via a web of paperwork and business secrecy laws that would make Enron accountants blush...
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
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No it was the US intelligence service for since 1991 that has asserted that Iraq had banned weapons.


When you go after everyone in office in 1998 that said Saddam should be removed with the same rhetoric that you go after Bush, than we can talk.

Until then, you are just another basher that is not worth my time or energy.


Dealmonky,

Is it your contention that the US administration went to war in Iraq only so that Haliburton could make some money? Is that really the position that you want to take and are you willing to stand by it and suffer the consequences if you are proven wrong?
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Ahh, yes, back to the "Prove Bush Lied" routine- quite the backpedal from "We have Proof!" of yesteryear.

It's like saying "Prove the sun will come up in the morning."

Besides, it was Bush and his minions who made the original assertions, and they bear the burden of proof, a burden they seek to shed with arguments like those posed by Etech. Either they lied or they're incompetent- take your pick.

http://www.house.gov/reform/min/pdfs_108_2/pdfs_inves/pdf_admin_iraq_on_the_record_rep.pdf

Halliburton gets 1% after expenses, and as any good govt contract accountant knows, the profit is in the expenses and the overhead, farmed out to Indonesian companies incorporated in the Bahamas, banking in the Netherland Antilles, doing business with Haliburton in partnership with a Cayman island firm providing Thai food service workers, all of whom are owned in whole or part by the Principals of Halliburton via a web of paperwork and business secrecy laws that would make Enron accountants blush...

You spin a good conspiracy theory, jhhnn. When does your book come out?;)

Haliburton is a public company with the goal of delivering a profit to their shareholders. So, jhhnn,
What exactly are they doing wrong?

Show me how this Waxman sponsered circle jerks supports your conspiracy theory...

Show me how you worked it out...
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
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No it was the US intelligence service for since 1991 that has asserted that Iraq had banned weapons.

Lol then why didn't the first bush go in and get those weapons. I don't recall anytime bush speech about the weapons his was BS about where over 10 years old. You wouldn't happen to have a link to one of bush statements that his intelligence was horrible out dated?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Haliburton is a public company with the goal of delivering a profit to their shareholders.

The first part is definitely true, the second merely attribution based on belief. As we've seen many times, executives often run public companies strictly for their own benefit, and at the detriment of the stockholders.

I've offered no conspiracy theory at all, merely some insight into the many ways that a parent company can and often does manipulate the responsibility and profit to their own or affiliated subsidiaries. Quite common. I didn't say that we invaded Iraq in order to benefit Halliburton, not at all. They have, however, used their connections and capabilities to land a series of contracts that will bring the principal players a lot more than a piddling 1% profit margin, bet on that. The shareholders and the SEC see the 1%....

The Waxman link was in response to Etech's usual absurd demand for somebody to "prove Bush lied"- maybe I could just as easily "prove" that there aren't any fairies in Ireland, or that Sasquatch doesn't roam the Pacific Northwest... As is usual, the burden of proof lies with those making the original assertions, and Bush has provided absolutely no proof whatsoever... the most potent wmd in Iraq over the last several years was swingin' in dubya's trousers on Thanksgiving day, 2003....
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
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Originally posted by: etech
Dealmonky,

Is it your contention that the US administration went to war in Iraq only so that Haliburton could make some money? Is that really the position that you want to take and are you willing to stand by it and suffer the consequences if you are proven wrong?
No, it's not. So why don't you stop claiming it is?
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: etech
Dealmonky,

Is it your contention that the US administration went to war in Iraq only so that Haliburton could make some money? Is that really the position that you want to take and are you willing to stand by it and suffer the consequences if you are proven wrong?
No, it's not. So why don't you stop claiming it is?

Then why'd you say this:

Is 1% worth starting a war over?
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Haliburton is a public company with the goal of delivering a profit to their shareholders.

posted by: Jhhnn

The first part is definitely true, the second merely attribution based on belief. As we've seen many times, executives often run public companies strictly for their own benefit, and at the detriment of the stockholders.
Using that logic I guess I can assume that if someone that drinks coke kills another, that all coke drinkers are killers...:)

I've offered no conspiracy theory at all, merely some insight into the many ways that a parent company can and often does manipulate the responsibility and profit to their own or affiliated subsidiaries.
Your insight is = to conspiracy theory
Quite common. I didn't say that we invaded Iraq in order to benefit Halliburton, not at all. They have, however, used their connections and capabilities to land a series of contracts that will bring the principal players a lot more than a piddling 1% profit margin, bet on that.
Yea, pretty safe bet with real numbers and everything in the op link
The shareholders and the SEC see the 1%....
and I guess that these 'daughter' companies that haliburton own, Don't reflect on haliburtons bottom line above the initial 1%.Come on jhhnn, You can do better than that..:roll:
The Waxman link was in response to Etech's usual absurd demand for somebody to "prove Bush lied"- maybe I could just as easily "prove" that there aren't any fairies in Ireland, or that Sasquatch doesn't roam the Pacific Northwest... As is usual, the burden of proof lies with those making the original assertions, and Bush has provided absolutely no proof whatsoever... the most potent wmd in Iraq over the last several years was swingin' in dubya's trousers on Thanksgiving day, 2003....


.......Now I see your true fixation...........

;)
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
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Originally posted by: alchemize
Then why'd you say this:

Is 1% worth starting a war over?
It's a question Alchie. You know how you can tell? See that little squiggly thing with the dot at the very end? Yes, very good alch. That means it's a question. Now, why don't you answer it? After all, that's what we do with questions, right? Go ahead, don't be scared.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: alchemize
Then why'd you say this:

Is 1% worth starting a war over?
It's a question Alchie. You know how you can tell? See that little squiggly thing with the dot at the very end? Yes, very good alch. That means it's a question. Now, why don't you answer it? After all, that's what we do with questions, right? Go ahead, don't be scared.

Ohhhhhh, it's a question, not a statement. Kind of like my sig about traitors, right? You'd never ever outright state that this was "a war for oil" or "lining the pockets of Bush buddies", cause you are so thoughtful and logical and moderate and non-partisan, right?
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
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Originally posted by: alchemize
Ohhhhhh, it's a question, not a statement. Kind of like my sig about traitors, right? You'd never ever outright state that this was "a war for oil" or "lining the pockets of Bush buddies", cause you are so thoughtful and logical and moderate and non-partisan, right?
You know, you should try reading the article I posted before blathering on about being partisan. If you had, you'd know that this article CLEARLY points out that Halliburton is hardly profiting off the war effort. Yes, 1% over costs is hardly worth starting a war over.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ, both you and etech need to get a clue. Or as CkG says, perhaps you have a reading-comprehension problem?
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: alchemize
Ohhhhhh, it's a question, not a statement. Kind of like my sig about traitors, right? You'd never ever outright state that this was "a war for oil" or "lining the pockets of Bush buddies", cause you are so thoughtful and logical and moderate and non-partisan, right?
You know, you should try reading the article I posted before blathering on about being partisan. If you had, you'd know that this article CLEARLY points out that Halliburton is hardly profiting off the war effort. Yes, 1% over costs is hardly worth starting a war over.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ, both you and etech need to get a clue. Or as CkG says, perhaps you have a reading-comprehension problem?

So what you are saying is, even though you posted this in your header:

Is 1% worth starting a war over?
You weren't implying, stating, or questioning in any way, shape or form, whether this war was started for profits of haliburton? Heck, you even said it again:

Yes, 1% over costs is hardly worth starting a war over.


OK....:roll::roll::roll::roll:

You aren't jesus, but you sure are tapdancing.

And yes, I read the article. It basically says:

"We started a war in Iraq to make our corporate buddies rich, and they aren't even getting rich! Jeez how stupid is bush? I can't believe we started a war for oil and we aren't getting even rich off it!"
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
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Yes, I was questioning, hence the question mark. Geeze, and I thought I made it obvious. Seriously dude, try decaf. You're getting yourself worked into a lather for nothing.
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
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"We started a war in Iraq to make our corporate buddies rich, and they aren't even getting rich! Jeez how stupid is bush? I can't believe we started a war for oil and we aren't getting even rich off it!"

It is no surpires why wouldn't bush screw up the stealing of oil and giving money to his coprate owners when he screwed up just about everything else in his own personal war.