Product cycles have been longer and longer

[firewolfsm]

I seem to be the only person bothered by this. Since the release of the FX series, nVidia's generation cycles have been getting longer and longer. The 9XXX series is to the 8XXX what the 7900 was to the 7800, nothing more. It's not a new generation but nVidia knows they're overdue, so they're giving it a new generation name. If the new architecture is released at the end of this year, it'll have been two full years since the 8800 released. If you bought an 8800GTX at launch, your card will actually stay competitive for that long.

and it's not as if these cards can handle all the games out there. Both ATi and nVidia have been slacking off together.

 

[JasonCoder]

I'm not one to usually take the side of a corporation but it's hard to fault NVidia/ATi here. They had nuts product cycles for so long it's probably been nice to take a breather and reap some rewards.

And I don't see many games actually taking huge advantage of what these cards can do, really. Yeah I know Crysis brings anything to its knees but the day that I spend hundreds of $$ to run a tech demo is the day I hit the lottery. With the longer product cycle more games can be up to date.

And yeah like you said the cards we bought at launch are still relevant. When was the last time you could say that 18 months later?

 

[superstition]

ATI isn't being very competitive. I think the speed of CPU upgrades is going to slow also because AMD isn't being very competitive. The 3870 can't even claim to be a more power efficient part because it gets lower performance per watt. If you competition offers lower performance per watt, isn't seriously less expensive, and you're selling somewhat old parts at a higher price than they were introduced at (8800GT) then you're sitting pretty.

 

[aka1nas]

I wouldn't say it was slacking off but rather it was the same limitations in process technology that Intel and AMD got bit in the ass by catching up with them. GPUs went parallel much earlier and were able to keep performance increases coming by adding more execution units while the CPU manufacturers were still floundering towards multi-core chips.

You only double the amount of execution units so many times per process generation before you start running into heat issues again.

 

[Bateluer]

ATI/AMD's video card cycles vary widely in length. Going from the 9700 to the 9800 was fairly quick, going from the 9800 to the X800s was slow, going from the X800s to the X1800s was really slow, but going from the X1800 to the X1900 was only 4 or 5 months. Going from the X1900 to the 2900 was really slow, but from the 2900s to the 3800s was less than 6 months. And its looking like the jump from the 3000 series to the 4000s series.

 

[superstition]

Originally posted by: aka1nas
I wouldn't say it was slacking off but rather it was the same limitations in process technology that Intel and AMD got bit in the ass by catching up with them. GPUs went parallel much earlier and were able to keep performance increases coming by adding more execution units while the CPU manufacturers were still floundering towards multi-core chips.

You only double the amount of execution units so many times per process generation before you start running into heat issues again.

ATI's cards are on a smaller process and they're still lower performance per watt.

 

[vhx]

Originally posted by: superstition
ATI isn't being very competitive. I think the speed of CPU upgrades is going to slow also because AMD isn't being very competitive. The 3870 can't even claim to be a more power efficient part because it gets lower performance per watt. If you competition offers lower performance per watt, isn't seriously less expensive, and you're selling somewhat old parts at a higher price than they were introduced at (8800GT) then you're sitting pretty.

I doubt that on the CPU's. Video cards are more for a gaming market, the consumer. CPU's can be used from anything from servers to gaming machines, more business applications. I think it'd make more sense for them to release a new thing and have business upgrade their machines, shelling more money out.

 

[BFG10K]

Longer dev cycles are one thing but I'm personally more concerned with this multi-GPU crap both vendors seem intent on forcing to us.

It's not a high-end solution so they should stop pretending it is.

 

[Sheninat0r]

Well I remember that someone high up in nVidia said a week or so ago that multi-card solutions were not optimal... but they're releasing one anyways.

 

[Twsmit]

I think over the last 3 or 4 years this has been due to a couple architectural changes that can take time and a relative lack of competition from ATI. The AGP --> PCIe transition coupled with crappy x800 cards lead to the first long delay, and now the DX9--> DX10 transition and crappy competition from the 2900 and 3000 series has allowed nvidia to push out this faux next gen series of cards. They should have launched the 8900's in November right before Christmas, not push out a fake 9000 series.... doh

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Sheninat0r
Well I remember that someone high up in nVidia said a week or so ago that multi-card solutions were not optimal... but they're releasing one anyways.

yeah, it was someone high up alright...I think his name was...uh...it escapes me...kind of like a girl's name...jenny some hung or something like that...

and YES, they are planning for a better single gpu in the future, but it looks like r700 will be here sooner than anticipated so they're dumping a fake 9800gtx on us to make us think they're making major improvements. Wake me up around xmas.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Sheninat0r
Well I remember that someone high up in nVidia said a week or so ago that multi-card solutions were not optimal... but they're releasing one anyways.

Yeah it was the head honcho at nvidia who said it. He was just trying to diminish ATIs 3870x2...as always when a competitor talks trash about the other's product...take it with a grain of salt.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Longer dev cycles are one thing but I'm personally more concerned with this multi-GPU crap both vendors seem intent on forcing to us.

It's not a high-end solution so they should stop pretending it is.

It's unfortunate but that's the way it seems to be going for both venders.

- The only thing that NV has going for itself (platform-wise) is SLI so they won't give it up. Especially Intel gearing up to GPU market, they have few (if any) weapons at their disposal.
- AMD started this multi-GPU busines late, and with their single GPU performance behind NV's, they don't have many choices, either. I bet AMD has spent a lot of money in R&D to catch up, and it just started showing. They will try to make use of it as much as possible.

I didn't say I liked it.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Longer dev cycles are one thing but I'm personally more concerned with this multi-GPU crap both vendors seem intent on forcing to us.

It's not a high-end solution so they should stop pretending it is.

The only way it's not a "high end" solution is that it's not single card BFG, and that's your personal definition.

If you define "high end" as being able to offer high framerates (both average and minimums) and high levels of AA/AF, multiGPU fits the bill nicely.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: Sheninat0r
Well I remember that someone high up in nVidia said a week or so ago that multi-card solutions were not optimal... but they're releasing one anyways.

yeah, it was someone high up alright...I think his name was...uh...it escapes me...kind of like a girl's name...jenny some hung or something like that...

and YES, they are planning for a better single gpu in the future, but it looks like r700 will be here sooner than anticipated so they're dumping a fake 9800gtx on us to make us think they're making major improvements. Wake me up around xmas.

Nice.

You make fun of his name because he's from another culture?

 

[BFG10K]

Well I remember that someone high up in nVidia said a week or so ago that multi-card solutions were not optimal... but they're releasing one anyways.

Yeah but remember Kirk told us unified wasn't the way to go and then the G80 popped up, all unified and all.

The only way it's not a "high end" solution is that it's not single card BFG, and that's your personal definition.

It's expensive, unpredictable, hot, loud, plus it doesn't hold a candle to a true single-card solution with similar specs, especially if the single card has next generation features.

Multi-CPU is nothing more than a gimmick for vendors to sell more GPUs when they have nothing faster to offer over single-card configurations.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Multi-GPU is nothing more than a gimmick for vendors to sell more GPUs when they have nothing faster to offer over single-card configurations.

I don't completely agree with this. While I dislike the multi-gpu solution as it is currently, I wouldn't call it a gimmick. If I had an endless amount of money, I'd certainly QuadFire. For those who have a limited amount of money (99% of us) it makes more sense to stick to a single GPU solution.

As GPU's become increasingly more complex, we are going to have to move towards multi-GPU configurations sooner or later anyway. We might as well start sooner and let the rich people become the guinie pigs to perfecting the technology.

 

[Tempered81]

I feel like they are purposely making crapass gpus as part of a plan to promote their integrated 780i chipset. If they make the flagship, but it is only slightly better and the way to get good FPS is to stack 3 together, then they make us have to buy a nvidia mobo as well. All sounds like a load of horseshit. I hope ati and intel get the ball rolling with some decent xfire action And R700 debuts in a P45 with some Crossfire-x nastiness.

 

[bryanW1995]

isn't p45 going to be x16 x4 like p35? x48 would be a better intro platform imho.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: Sheninat0r
Well I remember that someone high up in nVidia said a week or so ago that multi-card solutions were not optimal... but they're releasing one anyways.

yeah, it was someone high up alright...I think his name was...uh...it escapes me...kind of like a girl's name...jenny some hung or something like that...

and YES, they are planning for a better single gpu in the future, but it looks like r700 will be here sooner than anticipated so they're dumping a fake 9800gtx on us to make us think they're making major improvements. Wake me up around xmas.

Nice.

You make fun of his name because he's from another culture?

ok, I feel dirty because I've now sent 2 pm's to rollo about this stupid comment. I was trying to make a play on words out of jen-hsun huang's name. Anybody who regularly reads these forums would be hard-pressed to prove that I have any bias against nvidia at all, especially since I've been touting that msi 8800gt OC for that past week or so to anybody who would listen. Yes I have a 3870 and yes I am pleased with the card, but I don't blindly follow either camp. I'm probably like most of us here who like nvidia but also don't want to see all competition leave the video card market when/if amd starts sucking again. Anyway, jen-hsun, if you're out there, please don't be mad at me. I'll even promise to start singing nvidia's praises for you if you'll just send me the latest and greatest nvidia systems as they become available. Heck, hector, if you're reading this, if YOU contact me first, I'll even use your crappy spider platform and pretend to like it. Just don't ask me to pay for shipping

Any btw, rollo, I made fun of his name because it was an easy name to turn into a play on words. It had nothing to do with his culture. The only thing I'm biased against is stupid people. and weasels. and people who get free hardware while I'm busy paying for mine...

 

[czech09]

Originally posted by: superstition
ATI isn't being very competitive. I think the speed of CPU upgrades is going to slow also because AMD isn't being very competitive. The 3870 can't even claim to be a more power efficient part because it gets lower performance per watt. If you competition offers lower performance per watt, isn't seriously less expensive, and you're selling somewhat old parts at a higher price than they were introduced at (8800GT) then you're sitting pretty.

Bingo!

 

[zorrt]

Yay to longer cycles! I hate having outdated hardware 3month after purchasing.

 

[bryanW1995]

too late! your 8800gt is already obsolete!

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

ok, I feel dirty because I've now sent 2 pm's to rollo about this stupid comment. I was trying to make a play on words out of jen-hsun huang's name. Anybody who regularly reads these forums would be hard-pressed to prove that I have any bias against nvidia at all, especially since I've been touting that msi 8800gt OC for that past week or so to anybody who would listen. Yes I have a 3870 and yes I am pleased with the card, but I don't blindly follow either camp. I'm probably like most of us here who like nvidia but also don't want to see all competition leave the video card market when/if amd starts sucking again. Anyway, jen-hsun, if you're out there, please don't be mad at me. I'll even promise to start singing nvidia's praises for you if you'll just send me the latest and greatest nvidia systems as they become available. Heck, hector, if you're reading this, if YOU contact me first, I'll even use your crappy spider platform and pretend to like it. Just don't ask me to pay for shipping

Any btw, rollo, I made fun of his name because it was an easy name to turn into a play on words. It had nothing to do with his culture. The only thing I'm biased against is stupid people. and weasels. and people who get free hardware while I'm busy paying for mine...

don't worry bryan it was just a kneejerk PC reactionary comment. I understood your comment had nothing to do with racism or cultural intolerance.

I also disagree with rollo on his acceptance of dual GPU cards as high end solutions. There are too many problems with the drivers and game support.

 

[qbfx]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Longer dev cycles are one thing but I'm personally more concerned with this multi-GPU crap both vendors seem intent on forcing to us.

It's not a high-end solution so they should stop pretending it is.

The only way it's not a "high end" solution is that it's not single card BFG, and that's your personal definition.

If you define "high end" as being able to offer high framerates (both average and minimums) and high levels of AA/AF, multiGPU fits the bill nicely.

IMO high-end isn't about framerates as much as it's about technology and innovation. To me a smaller chip, running cooler and consuming less, supporting later features, put into a card with more efficient architecture is higher-end than a dual chip card even if it's some percent slower. I'd prefer a 400HP V6 than a 450HP W12. It consumes less, is more versatile and more elegant solution.