Process of Noise Elimination

[Elcs]

I just know im going to get people shouting at me for calling my system loud but its still not as quiet as I want it to be and I know roughly what to do about it when I get my money in. Im just looking for reassurement/advice/tidbits and anything else I might have missed.

When I eventually go S939 or M2, Ill be taking most of my stuff with me so bear that in mind when I am suggesting my replacements and you suggest yours.

Heres whats in my system at the moment:

Athlon XP1700+
Abit NF7-S Rev 2.0
Radeon 9800 Pro
Hauppage PVR 250
1 Gb Pc3200
Thermaltake 480W PurePower PSU
2 x WD SE (120Gb and 200Gb)
1 Optical drive

Using a Thermalright SLK900A with 92mm Panaflo L1A (Speedfan set fan to 10%)
2 x 120x38mm Panaflo L1A's as intake/exhaust (Speedfan sets these fans to 8%)
Zalman VF700 Cu on my 9800 Pro (I cant tell the difference between 12v and 5v operation)
Using my TT PSU with the fan dialled up from the lowest just below the level it adds noise.
Case is an SLK3000B.

Ive noticed my dad has a 160 Gb Samsung Spinpoint so Im going to swap my 200Gb WD SE with him to reduce noise. I may also replace the 120 Gb WD with a Spinpoint or whatever is the quietest HDD at the time.

If I switch off all 3 Panaflo's, the noise changes ever so slightly and turning down the PSU fan has the same effect.

Using the hand test, I cant feel that much vibration. My HDD's are sat in the cage with rubber washers either side, my fans and PSU are mounted via. Vantecs rubber vibration dampeners.

The only real things I can think of are:

1) PSU being noisy. Its Thermaltake and Dual 80mm fan so it could be noisy. Probable replacement: Seasonic S12 500W or 600W. Perhaps 600W to allow for future expansion but 500W will probably be my choice.

2) HDD's being the major source of noise. Western Digital arent the quietest drives and in what people would probably class as a quiet PC, they could be the most noisy part.

3) Chipset fan. Small fans used on GFX cards and Chipsets are notoriously awful, noisy and unreliable. The NF2 Ultra chipset isnt awfully hot so I think it would be easy to go passive here.

Quite a large post, please take care reading it and Id appreciate advice. Its going to be at least 1 month before I can afford to upgrade any of these parts so in that time, advice may change slightly.

I think Ive actually came very close to hitting the point where I can say, "My whole system is in harmony and no single component is making much more noise than any other".

Thanks for your help.

 

[2kfire]

Originally posted by: Elcs
Zalman VF700 Cu on my 9800 Pro (I cant tell the difference between 12v and 5v operation)

You should be able to tell the difference.
As for suggestions for making things quieter:

1. Chipset fan: Yeah, they suck. Use a passive heatsink. If you have an old passively cooled video card, you could mod that and use it. That's what I did with my motherboard.
2. HDDs: Compared to my 2x Seagate 7200.7, my WD1200JB is LOUD! Spinpoints would definitely help here. I had a spinpoint once... nice, quiet drive :thumbsup:
3. CPU: Scythe Ninja/Thermaltake Sonic Tower. With a decent case, these can be run passively (see my sig), eliminating noise here.

Just some ideas

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Elcs
I just know im going to get people shouting at me for calling my system loud but its still not as quiet as I want it to be and I know roughly what to do about it when I get my money in. Im just looking for reassurement/advice/tidbits and anything else I might have missed.

When I eventually go S939 or M2, Ill be taking most of my stuff with me so bear that in mind when I am suggesting my replacements and you suggest yours.

Heres whats in my system at the moment:

Athlon XP1700+
Abit NF7-S Rev 2.0
Radeon 9800 Pro
Hauppage PVR 250
1 Gb Pc3200
Thermaltake 480W PurePower PSU
2 x WD SE (120Gb and 200Gb)
1 Optical drive

Using a Thermalright SLK900A with 92mm Panaflo L1A (Speedfan set fan to 10%)
2 x 120x38mm Panaflo L1A's as intake/exhaust (Speedfan sets these fans to 8%)
Zalman VF700 Cu on my 9800 Pro (I cant tell the difference between 12v and 5v operation)
Using my TT PSU with the fan dialled up from the lowest just below the level it adds noise.
Case is an SLK3000B.

Ive noticed my dad has a 160 Gb Samsung Spinpoint so Im going to swap my 200Gb WD SE with him to reduce noise. I may also replace the 120 Gb WD with a Spinpoint or whatever is the quietest HDD at the time.

If I switch off all 3 Panaflo's, the noise changes ever so slightly and turning down the PSU fan has the same effect.

Using the hand test, I cant feel that much vibration. My HDD's are sat in the cage with rubber washers either side, my fans and PSU are mounted via. Vantecs rubber vibration dampeners.

The only real things I can think of are:

1) PSU being noisy. Its Thermaltake and Dual 80mm fan so it could be noisy. Probable replacement: Seasonic S12 500W or 600W. Perhaps 600W to allow for future expansion but 500W will probably be my choice.

2) HDD's being the major source of noise. Western Digital arent the quietest drives and in what people would probably class as a quiet PC, they could be the most noisy part.

3) Chipset fan. Small fans used on GFX cards and Chipsets are notoriously awful, noisy and unreliable. The NF2 Ultra chipset isnt awfully hot so I think it would be easy to go passive here.

Quite a large post, please take care reading it and Id appreciate advice. Its going to be at least 1 month before I can afford to upgrade any of these parts so in that time, advice may change slightly.

I think Ive actually came very close to hitting the point where I can say, "My whole system is in harmony and no single component is making much more noise than any other".

Thanks for your help.

Ya know the panaflo`s are`nt entirely quiet.

Also that Zalman on your vid card is definately not the problem!!
I can`t hear mine iether!
Could be the hardrives. But I was once told if you can hear your harddrives then most likely you are on borrowed time if they are making that much racket!

Your PSU could be what you are hearing.

Anyways good luck!!

 

[JBDan]

Looks like you are addicted to silencing your pc to me...I can relate. When you say "loud," by most peoples standards it is probably rather quiet. Ambient noise levels play a huge role here (city vs suburb, traffic vs country road, etc...). I'll give you 3 tips that will satisfy your "quiet" goal. (ofcourse all based on my O). Don't know if its in your budget, but this will get you where it sounds like you want to be.
1) Do a fan swap on your psu or get the S-12. 500W will be PLENTY. The 430W is actually the quietest per SPCR reviews. (as you get closer to silencing a pc, imo, this is a main source of noise)
2) Spinpoint is an excellent choice
3) Zalman's NB passive cooler will do the trick
4) VF700. I had one...a lot of differing opinions on it as far as noise...imo-->at 5V it is very quiet...at 12V it is noisy..quite a bit louder than my NV5 rev 2...with good case airflow, you can run the VF700 @ 5V all day.
5) You cannot beat Nexus for quiet fans. You could opt for the 120's as intake/exhaust and use the 92mm Nexus for your cpu HSF.

The pannie 120x38mm's make a "low rumble" when undervolted...they are a large fan and imo do not have a good acoustic signature. If you post a topic over at SPCR forums, you will get some great advice. Most of what I say comes from my experience in silencing, but I have learned a good bit from posters at SPCR. G-Luck!

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Elcs, i am the novice here at C&C and my spelling/grammer leave much to be desired.
Think of me(if you do at all)as a Welshman tending hedge rows that has found comp building a facinating hobby.

First,do not try to re-invent the wheel. Go to silentpcreview.com and read all that they have to say about fans,PSUs,fan controllers. Take special note of the HDD suspension forum.

At low voltage settings PWM fan controllers tend to make fans click. Get a Sunbeam rheobus and learn to work with it. I run all fans at full out-put for 24 hours before installing them. This frees them up, the bearings bed-in and they undervolt better than when brand new.
Consider using 38mm deep fans as they tend to move more air with less turbulance.
Consider modding the 80's you may have to 92's because they will move the same air with silence. Go to Sharkoon.com, check-out thier 80mm white fan. It has been in use on your side of The Pond for awhile now. It got some good reviews.
Cut your fan holes to the exact dementions as the fan has. My holes are square with wide radius corners, the edges are rounded so the air does not have to break over a sharp 90degree edge as it enters the fan. Does this really make a big differance? IDK. But in all
the reading i've done on cylinder head porting and having done that work for myself, i would say yes. Fan desigers spent some time setting up the housing for at least reasonable air entry then we put that fan on a chopped out case hole. Makes no sense to me because i just tend hedge rows ;-)
If you wish to keep active cooling on your NB, go to allelectronics.com and buy new PIII HSFs @$2.50 each. The 40mm fan is a very high quality unit and will start/run at 5V. As a HS fan it has the blade type that drives air into the sink. The mount for this fan*MUST*be removed by cutting the aluminum prongs it is wedge into. Then it can be carefully bent and re-pressed into your existing NB HS.
They also have 40mm 5V fans @ $4 for two. These are very quiet and could be mounted to cool remote HDDs. They will ship by the cheapest method, uninsured if you wish. Here in the States they ship to me by USPS on low weight orders. The heatshrink they sell is not first class but is VG none the less.

If i were to go with a fanless PSU this is what i would do,as i have done this twice with fan cooled PSUs. Install a cross brace just in front of the PSU on the case inner panels. Mount a controlled fan close to the intake of the PSU. If this is impractical, i would mount a quiet suction fan on the outside rear of the PSU. A fanless PSU will thank you three years later by still operating with stable voltage and non-swelling caps.
A fanless PSU relies on the case intake fans to drive air through it, a suction or internal fan as i related would make it possible to just about shut off the case fans if you so desire.
By it's nature the PSU is allways generating heat. Even when they say 85%+ efficiant that maybe at half load. But at 30% load,as most surfing and light work is done that may come down to 70% and that means some heat.

Good Luck!

Galvanized

 

[2kfire]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Could be the hardrives. But I was once told if you can hear your harddrives then most likely you are on borrowed time if they are making that much racket!

Western Digitals make a whine sound, cuz they use ball bearings rather than the Fluid Dynamic bearings that Seagate, Maxtor, and others use. My WD has made that sound since the first day I bought it. Back then though, it was still pretty quiet for a 7200 RPM drive and it had the best performance (like 2 1/2 years ago I think). Their newest drives use FDBs and are much quieter

 

[Elcs]

Beforehand, Id like to apologise for 'picking apart' your post. Some people are offended by it as its seen as a form of criticism but Id like to use it to break down a long post and address points as I see fit.

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Elcs, i am the novice here at C&C and my spelling/grammer leave much to be desired.
Think of me(if you do at all)as a Welshman tending hedge rows that has found comp building a facinating hobby.

We all start somewhere.

First,do not try to re-invent the wheel. Go to silentpcreview.com and read all that they have to say about fans,PSUs,fan controllers. Take special note of the HDD suspension forum.

At low voltage settings PWM fan controllers tend to make fans click. Get a Sunbeam rheobus and learn to work with it. I run all fans at full out-put for 24 hours before installing them. This frees them up, the bearings bed-in and they undervolt better than when brand new.

Consider using 38mm deep fans as they tend to move more air with less turbulance.

I use SPCR for Reviews and Ive read about Seasonic PSU's. They have the blend of Power, Noise Level and price I want. Fanless PSU's went out of the window with my PVR system idea

Speedfan has no trouble with my fans. I was warned by the guy at Sidewinder about PWN and clicking fans but my fan controller and Speedfan have been fine with my Panaflo's.

As noted in my top post, my 120mm Panaflo's are indeed 38mm deep.

Consider modding the 80's you may have to 92's because they will move the same air with silence. Go to Sharkoon.com, check-out thier 80mm white fan. It has been in use on your side of The Pond for awhile now. It got some good reviews.
Cut your fan holes to the exact dementions as the fan has. My holes are square with wide radius corners, the edges are rounded so the air does not have to break over a sharp 90degree edge as it enters the fan. Does this really make a big differance? IDK. But in all the reading i've done on cylinder head porting and having done that work for myself, i would say yes. Fan desigers spent some time setting up the housing for at least reasonable air entry then we put that fan on a chopped out case hole. Makes no sense to me because i just tend hedge rows ;-)

Opening PSU's = no no. I have absolutely zero electrical experience and even with a line by line, miniscule step by step guide, I would not put myself in such danger otherwise Id have 80mm Panaflo'ed my TT PSU by now. Moving to a powerful Seasonic unit includes the money Im spending to keep myself alive by not modding my PSU.

If you wish to keep active cooling on your NB, go to allelectronics.com and buy new PIII HSFs @$2.50 each. The 40mm fan is a very high quality unit and will start/run at 5V. As a HS fan it has the blade type that drives air into the sink. The mount for this fan*MUST*be removed by cutting the aluminum prongs it is wedge into. Then it can be carefully bent and re-pressed into your existing NB HS.
They also have 40mm 5V fans @ $4 for two. These are very quiet and could be mounted to cool remote HDDs. They will ship by the cheapest method, uninsured if you wish. Here in the States they ship to me by USPS on low weight orders. The heatshrink they sell is not first class but is VG none the less.

My case temps have a delta of around 6c max on a warm day when switching from idle to load. 25-31c is my usual low-high with regards to case temp so Im going to have a stab at passive cooling. A good copper heatsink should keep it cool enough under these conditions.

Good Luck!

Galvanized[/quote]

Originally posted by: 2kfire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Elcs
Zalman VF700 Cu on my 9800 Pro (I cant tell the difference between 12v and 5v operation)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You should be able to tell the difference.
As for suggestions for making things quieter:

1. Chipset fan: Yeah, they suck. Use a passive heatsink. If you have an old passively cooled video card, you could mod that and use it. That's what I did with my motherboard.
2. HDDs: Compared to my 2x Seagate 7200.7, my WD1200JB is LOUD! Spinpoints would definitely help here. I had a spinpoint once... nice, quiet drive
3. CPU: Scythe Ninja/Thermaltake Sonic Tower. With a decent case, these can be run passively (see my sig), eliminating noise here.

Just some ideas

I have my Zalman hooked up to my fan controller which does 7v-12v. I cant tell the difference (with side panel on) between the extremes but I shall do some testing.

1: Probably going Zalman. Dont want to ruin things by going DIY in this case... this board/chip and gfx card needs to last until M2 is released at the very least.
2: Its going to be a massive juggling act between me and my dad since we're almost hitting capacity and neither of us can afford a new HDD at the mo. Moving from a WD SE to a Spinpoint wont produce miracles, unless I change both.
3: Both S939 heatsinks and I dont think they are backwards compatible with Socket A. My Thermalright SLK900A keeps my 1700+ @ 50-52C underload @ 2ghz with my 92mm L1A @ 10%. Might look into another fan but it doesnt seem like my first priority.

Originally posted by: JBDan

Looks like you are addicted to silencing your pc to me...I can relate. When you say "loud," by most peoples standards it is probably rather quiet. Ambient noise levels play a huge role here (city vs suburb, traffic vs country road, etc...). I'll give you 3 tips that will satisfy your "quiet" goal. (ofcourse all based on my O). Don't know if its in your budget, but this will get you where it sounds like you want to be.
1) Do a fan swap on your psu or get the S-12. 500W will be PLENTY. The 430W is actually the quietest per SPCR reviews. (as you get closer to silencing a pc, imo, this is a main source of noise)
2) Spinpoint is an excellent choice
3) Zalman's NB passive cooler will do the trick
4) VF700. I had one...a lot of differing opinions on it as far as noise...imo-->at 5V it is very quiet...at 12V it is noisy..quite a bit louder than my NV5 rev 2...with good case airflow, you can run the VF700 @ 5V all day.
5) You cannot beat Nexus for quiet fans. You could opt for the 120's as intake/exhaust and use the 92mm Nexus for your cpu HSF.

The pannie 120x38mm's make a "low rumble" when undervolted...they are a large fan and imo do not have a good acoustic signature. If you post a topic over at SPCR forums, you will get some great advice. Most of what I say comes from my experience in silencing, but I have learned a good bit from posters at SPCR. G-Luck!

Ive been sitting on this PC for about 3 months now and for the past 2 days, its been annoying me... perhaps its because I cant use my speakers when my dads sleeping and I have to listen to it more... /shrug

1) Looking at the 500W or 600W S-12... as said, probably the 500W but I might drop the cash on the 600W for headroom in the future. I also heard somewhere Seasonic re-did the 500W and 600W versions and made them closer to the level of noise output by the 430W model.
2) SPCR seem to think so too. Thats where I got the idea from
3) Good
4) My 9800P is underclocked when not running 3D apps so 5v would probably be sufficient.
5) Fans will be one of the last things I replace but I keep an eagle-eye out on the C&C forums here so I get to know enough. SPCR would probably make me paranoid.

My 120 Panaflo's do seem to rumble at bit at the higher end of their rpm spectrum or when spinning up but they seem fine @ 8% via. Speedfan.

Could be the hardrives. But I was once told if you can hear your harddrives then most likely you are on borrowed time if they are making that much racket!

I remember when HDD's were noisy until they had been used for months.... then they quietened down. When I moved from my 170mb HDD to a new 430mb Seagate my dad couldnt use with his Blizzard Accelerator Board, it drove me nutty. The 170mb drive had sounded noisy at the start when my dad used it but it had worn down well and the noise was acceptable.

Thanks for suggestions so far. My PC is still like 1 foot away from my ears but Im looking to change that. Clear out my room, new desk, pop my 5.1 system in a better place etc.

Keep them ideas flowing.

EDIT: Apologies for the long, split apart post. Im not sure whether I did a good or a bad job of formatting.