Problems with the concept of heaven...

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alkemyst

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Now one I don't agree with this...I don't really have one set religion I follow as I think all the organized ones of the world have been bastardized to suit those in power of them and the people...

However; with drinks come some interesting discussions.

Slavery was a long institute...I am not just talking african-americans in the US, but as a global trend for thousands of years almost every race has had members which have been enslaved.

Now as far as I know, almost none of the religions dub slavery as evil...so a slave owner should have a place in whatever heaven he ends up in...

Heaven is supposed to be your perfect place. What if that perfect place for this individual had you has his slave back in ancient Egypt or whereever and now he wants you in Heaven...when you die to you go to him...if you were dead already; do you lose your own place in heaven?

On a second topic...many are married and in relationships yet grow to hate their SO...they are civil though and love the stability even a terrible relationship brings. The unknowing SO dies, do they get you back in Heaven?

It was a pretty interesting topic....maybe not so good for a forum hash out.

Å
 
nick1985

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
troll.jpg
 
her209

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Do people go to heaven right away after they die or do they wait until Judgement Day?
 
D

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
Can I sin in heaven? I'm already there, what can possibly go wrong? If I can't, does that mean I'm no longer in control of my soul?
 
JMapleton

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
4,179
2
81
Heaven is where sin is not allowed, but it's evil that causes us to sin. Once this evil is removed from us, we can be fit for heaven.

It's complicated and most people don't understand, but I believe all people will go to heaven, because it was the devil and his demons who caused us to sin in the first place and that is who will be punished.
 
C

Cookie

Golden Member
Jul 3, 2001
1,759
2
81
I watched a stupid afternoon TV show or movie one time and a similar issue came up.

There was a guy who was married, his wife died early, he remarried. When he died he went to heaven and his first wife wanted to be with him, but he was torn because he wanted to be in heaven with both of them. So, being heaven and all-mighty and all that, they made two of him, one for the first wife, one for the second wife.

I'm sure they could do the same thing for your slave.

**Disclaimer: It was a dumb show and I've likely remembered it wrong.
 
Proprioceptive

Proprioceptive

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2006
1,630
10
81
Well, I'm going to heaven, and all you heathens are going to hell... so... I guess I don't have to worry about it.:D
 
Kadarin

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
JMapleton said:
Heaven is where sin is not allowed, but it's evil that causes us to sin. Once this evil is removed from us, we can be fit for heaven.

It's complicated and most people don't understand, but I believe all people will go to heaven, because it was the devil and his demons who caused us to sin in the first place and that is who will be punished.
Click to expand...

This implies that we have no free will, and if that's the case what the fuck is the point in believing in any of this shit to begin with?
 
D

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
Kadarin said:
This implies that we have no free will, and if that's the case what the fuck is the point in believing in any of this shit to begin with?
Click to expand...


You were given free will to determine if you belong in heaven or hell... once you die, you will either be punished for being a sinner or you will have your free will taken away and become a mindless drone in paradise. Either way, you're fucked. ;)
 
SlitheryDee

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
Do people get retroactively snatched from heaven when current public opinion and church dogma changes so that something that was not a sin at the time becomes one now?
 
T

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
When you die, your body dies, but you keep your conciousness. It's going to be like being in a dream. It will become vivid, because just like being a dream, you start to realize you are in control. If you are free from guilt when you die, you won't be haunted by it in the afterlife, which is why people say when you are "saved" you go to heaven. Believing that jesus saved you, authentically believing it, releases your sense of guilt and regret for things in the past.

If you don't get released of this, you die, and you are in your dream state forever with this guilt. aka hell.

But if you are free and saved, you can enter this dream state and be able to enjoy it for what it is. Free thinking without the constraints of the flesh.

aka, watch the movie "what dreams may come"
 
D

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
This assumes that there is a single version of heaven that everyone inhabits together, where the Amish are forced to have big-screen TVs and stainless-steel appliances.

It's probably more like MMO instances, where compatible people are grouped together in different flavors of teh hev.

Edit: .... you may think it looks familiar ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYXWI9Lz-30
 
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JohnOfSheffield

JohnOfSheffield

Lifer
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
alkemyst said:
Now one I don't agree with this...I don't really have one set religion I follow as I think all the organized ones of the world have been bastardized to suit those in power of them and the people...

However; with drinks come some interesting discussions.

Slavery was a long institute...I am not just talking african-americans in the US, but as a global trend for thousands of years almost every race has had members which have been enslaved.

Now as far as I know, almost none of the religions dub slavery as evil...so a slave owner should have a place in whatever heaven he ends up in...

Heaven is supposed to be your perfect place. What if that perfect place for this individual had you has his slave back in ancient Egypt or whereever and now he wants you in Heaven...when you die to you go to him...if you were dead already; do you lose your own place in heaven?

On a second topic...many are married and in relationships yet grow to hate their SO...they are civil though and love the stability even a terrible relationship brings. The unknowing SO dies, do they get you back in Heaven?

It was a pretty interesting topic....maybe not so good for a forum hash out.

Å
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsd_P1s6DOE

Ian Gillian, no laughing in heaven.
 
Leros

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
21,867
7
81
Cookie said:
I watched a stupid afternoon TV show or movie one time and a similar issue came up.

There was a guy who was married, his wife died early, he remarried. When he died he went to heaven and his first wife wanted to be with him, but he was torn because he wanted to be in heaven with both of them. So, being heaven and all-mighty and all that, they made two of him, one for the first wife, one for the second wife.

I'm sure they could do the same thing for your slave.

**Disclaimer: It was a dumb show and I've likely remembered it wrong.
Click to expand...

That seems like the ultimate solution for an almighty god. Just make personal heavens for everybody.
 
JohnOfSheffield

JohnOfSheffield

Lifer
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Leros said:
That seems like the ultimate solution for an almighty god. Just make personal heavens for everybody.
Click to expand...

Problem is, that wouldn't fly with self righteous religious people, they don't just want to get a reward, they want those who are not like them to suffer.

In many cases, in fact in most cases, i think that is the biggest thing for them, it gives them great pleasure to watch others suffer, that, btw, also is indicative of how they behave here on this planet.
 
Red Squirrel

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,560
13,801
126
www.anyf.ca
Heaven is fairly simple. You accept Jesus in your heart and believe that you are a sinner and that he died on the cross, taking your place, and you get a free ticket there.

You reject, and reject, and simply don't want to even consider believing, you go to hell.

It has NOTHING to do with good works. Good works comes as part of being a good Christian that is obedient to the Lord, but once you are saved, it's done. God is merciful and allows anyone to go to heaven, you just need to accept.

Then Jesus was crucified there were 2 criminals. One kept taunting him and making fun of him saying things like "If you really are the God then bring us down and save yourself!" the other one, knowing he did wrong said. "Please remember me when you get to the kingdom". He had faith that he was in fact the savior. Jesus replied "I say to you today, you will be in paradise". This criminal did not do any good deeds, he simply believed.

I just paraphrased, but basically...
http://bible.cc/luke/23-39.htm

This is a good example of how easy it is to get to heaven.

Once we get to heaven, I imagine the way we think and act will change drastically. We wont want to sin, nor will we even think about it. Here on Earth we have the devil tempting us all the time. Lot of things that seem fun, are also sinful.
 
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