Problems with having a flat tax?

[Red]

A Republican city councilman who works as a call center agent with me at work said that his favorite political philospophy would be to charge a 15% flat tax to everyone, no matter how much or how little they made. He said that way we treat everyone as individuals instead of giving special rights to either the rich or poor.

The only problem I have with it is the standard of living is the same no matter how much money you make.... there is a certain minimum amount requred to have an acceptable standard of living. The rich can be taxed higher and still maintain a higher standard of living. The poor, on the other hand, are affected greatly when overtaxed because it affects their standard of living.

And no, I'm not lying about a city councilman working in the call center with me making $10/hr (he lives in a small city).

 

[Zebo]

Devils in the details. Ask your friend if I should be able to write-off a new pump on a gas well? Or My home mortage intrest? Or medical expenses?

 

[Genx87]

Well a 15% flat tax would still probably be lower taxes than what most middle class people pay now.

But I believe the flat tax would be accompanied with a federal sales tax. The sales tax will end up getting the rich because they drop coin on high priced items and drop more coin in general.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well a 15% flat tax would still probably be lower taxes than what most middle class people pay now.

But I believe the flat tax would be accompanied with a federal sales tax. The sales tax will end up getting the rich because they drop coin on high priced items and drop more coin in general.

Won't work, dumb idea created by PhD's who are not aware of the real world.

 

[JacobJ]

Treating everyone as individuals means understanding their individual circumstances.

A flat tax would ignore that.

 

[Babbles]

I used to be kind of a pro flat tax person, then I actually thought it through. As somebody said, the Devil is in the details.

We have a very complicated market and economy system. As such, it requires a complicated taxation system. Simple things are not always the best solution.

 

[assemblage]

Originally posted by: JacobJTreating everyone as individuals means understanding their individual circumstances.

That doesn't sound like equality to me.

 

[MaxFusion16]

Originally posted by: Red
A Republican city councilman who works as a call center agent with me at work said that his favorite political philospophy would be to charge a 15% flat tax to everyone, no matter how much or how little they made. He said that way we treat everyone as individuals instead of giving special rights to either the rich or poor.

The only problem I have with it is the standard of living is the same no matter how much money you make.... there is a certain minimum amount requred to have an acceptable standard of living. The rich can be taxed higher and still maintain a higher standard of living. The poor, on the other hand, are affected greatly when overtaxed because it affects their standard of living.

And no, I'm not lying about a city councilman working in the call center with me making $10/hr (he lives in a small city).

that's not treating them as individuals, that's putting everyone into a single class.
people as individuals are different, each with different needs.
one size does not fit all

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: JacobJTreating everyone as individuals means understanding their individual circumstances.

That doesn't sound like equality to me.

Equality /= individuality

 

[Valvoline6]

Too many people out of work with a flat tax. The IRS, acountants, printers, software... etc.. What would they all do?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well a 15% flat tax would still probably be lower taxes than what most middle class people pay now.

But I believe the flat tax would be accompanied with a federal sales tax. The sales tax will end up getting the rich because they drop coin on high priced items and drop more coin in general.

Won't work, dumb idea created by PhD's who are not aware of the real world.

Of course it wont.

Prior to federal income taxes how did the us federal govt sustain itself?

 

[Hammer]

this was already considered during the 90s. 15% isn't accurate. it would be closer to 27% which would be a lot more than people with lower incomes are paying now. that's why we won't have a flat tax. same problem with the idea of a national sales tax.

 

[rahvin]

A flat tax is a cut in taxes for the most wealthy and applying that tax load to the middle class and poor. I'm in the 28% bracket and my effective tax rate (the actual rate I pay) is approximately 10.5%. Estimates for a flat tax call for approximately 17%. That flat tax would be a direct 6.5% hike in my taxes and would make my currently living situation unsustainable. The majority of americans would be placed in the the same circumstances, personal bankruptcies would skyrocket, the number of homeless would sky rocket and there would be serious chances of class warfare. The backlash would be incredible and frankly I wouldn't want to be around for the violence.

If you are in the middle class and you support a flat tax you are either an idiot or want to pay more taxes.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: rahvin
A flat tax is a cut in taxes for the most wealthy and applying that tax load to the middle class and poor. I'm in the 28% bracket and my effective tax rate (the actual rate I pay) is approximately 10.5%. Estimates for a flat tax call for approximately 17%. That flat tax would be a direct 6.5% hike in my taxes and would make my currently living situation unsustainable. The majority of americans would be placed in the the same circumstances, personal bankruptcies would skyrocket, the number of homeless would sky rocket and there would be serious chances of class warfare. The backlash would be incredible and frankly I wouldn't want to be around for the violence.

If you are in the middle class and you support a flat tax you are either an idiot or want to pay more taxes.

....with the asumption you don't itemise.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rahvin
A flat tax is a cut in taxes for the most wealthy and applying that tax load to the middle class and poor. I'm in the 28% bracket and my effective tax rate (the actual rate I pay) is approximately 10.5%. Estimates for a flat tax call for approximately 17%. That flat tax would be a direct 6.5% hike in my taxes and would make my currently living situation unsustainable. The majority of americans would be placed in the the same circumstances, personal bankruptcies would skyrocket, the number of homeless would sky rocket and there would be serious chances of class warfare. The backlash would be incredible and frankly I wouldn't want to be around for the violence.

If you are in the middle class and you support a flat tax you are either an idiot or want to pay more taxes.

....with the asumption you don't itemise.

Itemize? what the hell are you talking about?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rahvin
A flat tax is a cut in taxes for the most wealthy and applying that tax load to the middle class and poor. I'm in the 28% bracket and my effective tax rate (the actual rate I pay) is approximately 10.5%. Estimates for a flat tax call for approximately 17%. That flat tax would be a direct 6.5% hike in my taxes and would make my currently living situation unsustainable. The majority of americans would be placed in the the same circumstances, personal bankruptcies would skyrocket, the number of homeless would sky rocket and there would be serious chances of class warfare. The backlash would be incredible and frankly I wouldn't want to be around for the violence.

If you are in the middle class and you support a flat tax you are either an idiot or want to pay more taxes.

....with the asumption you don't itemise.

Itemize? what the hell are you talking about?

How much taxes does one pay if they make 80K and only take the standard deduction?

 

[assemblage]

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: JacobJTreating everyone as individuals means understanding their individual circumstances.

That doesn't sound like equality to me.

Equality /= individuality

Is that a not equal? If it is, then I guess you are not for a tax system based on individual equality.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rahvin
A flat tax is a cut in taxes for the most wealthy and applying that tax load to the middle class and poor. I'm in the 28% bracket and my effective tax rate (the actual rate I pay) is approximately 10.5%. Estimates for a flat tax call for approximately 17%. That flat tax would be a direct 6.5% hike in my taxes and would make my currently living situation unsustainable. The majority of americans would be placed in the the same circumstances, personal bankruptcies would skyrocket, the number of homeless would sky rocket and there would be serious chances of class warfare. The backlash would be incredible and frankly I wouldn't want to be around for the violence.

If you are in the middle class and you support a flat tax you are either an idiot or want to pay more taxes.

....with the asumption you don't itemise.

Itemize? what the hell are you talking about?

How much taxes does one pay if they make 80K and only take the standard deduction?

I don't really care to figure it out because you still haven't said what the hell this has to do with anything I said or even the relevance of it to this thread.

 

[JacobJ]

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: JacobJ

Originally posted by: assemblage

Originally posted by: JacobJTreating everyone as individuals means understanding their individual circumstances.

That doesn't sound like equality to me.

Equality /= individuality

Is that a not equal? If it is, then I guess you are not for a tax system based on individual equality.

well it seems like they tried "individual equality"

it was called communism.

everything equal for everyone.

but then again, thats not really about the individual
at all

turns out marx was right:

class warfare is here to stay.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: rahvin
A flat tax is a cut in taxes for the most wealthy and applying that tax load to the middle class and poor. I'm in the 28% bracket and my effective tax rate (the actual rate I pay) is approximately 10.5%. Estimates for a flat tax call for approximately 17%. That flat tax would be a direct 6.5% hike in my taxes and would make my currently living situation unsustainable. The majority of americans would be placed in the the same circumstances, personal bankruptcies would skyrocket, the number of homeless would sky rocket and there would be serious chances of class warfare. The backlash would be incredible and frankly I wouldn't want to be around for the violence.

If you are in the middle class and you support a flat tax you are either an idiot or want to pay more taxes.

....with the asumption you don't itemise.

Itemize? what the hell are you talking about?

How much taxes does one pay if they make 80K and only take the standard deduction?

I don't really care to figure it out because you still haven't said what the hell this has to do with anything I said or even the relevance of it to this thread.

My point was if you don't itemize you can pay a lot more than 17% so it's not really idiodic to want a flat tax. Lots of young people here with very good jobs paying in excess of 30% when SS and medicare is facored in and they would certainly benefit from a flat tax.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Zebo
My point was if you don't itemize you can pay a lot more than 17% so it's not really idiodic to want a flat tax. Lots of young people here with very good jobs paying in excess of 30% when SS and medicare is facored in and they would certainly benefit from a flat tax.

My back of a napkin estimate is around an effective tax rate of 25% on 80k with just the standard deduction (and no 401k contribution or pretax medical insurance expenses). No flat tax estimate includes rolling SS and Medicare tax into the flat tax. I won't go into a discussion of you being an idiot for making 80k a year and NOT itemizing (nor contributing to a 401k or having medical insurance) because that should be rather obvious. Consider only the following if you are in such a group you are such a miniscule part of the population that your situation is not indicative of what would happen to the rest of the american population.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Well a 15% flat tax would still probably be lower taxes than what most middle class people pay now.

But I believe the flat tax would be accompanied with a federal sales tax. The sales tax will end up getting the rich because they drop coin on high priced items and drop more coin in general.

LoL a sales tax wouldn't even touch the rich. Lets see hire a maid sales tax no. Hire a butler sales tax no. How about rent a rent a few limios which would be corparet expenesses. How about that nice 2 million dollar house are you going to chrage sales tax on houses? That would kill the middle class because they would be unable to move.

 

[SuperTool]

We have $2.4T government with $10T economy. So it would be 24% tax GDP. Where is the 15% flat tax coming from?

 

[conjur]

We need to close all loopholes for corporations so they start paying their share of taxes to ease the burden on individuals.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: conjur
We need to close all loopholes for corporations so they start paying their share of taxes to ease the burden on individuals.

Damn corporations...