problems with Biostar/Redfox M7NCG 400 nForce 2 motherboard

[Battousai001]

Just wanna share my experience with this board I got, and hopefully you guys might share some suggestions.

I just got a Redfox/Biostar M7NCG 400 Socket A motherboard last week, the board has an NVIDIA nForce2 IGP / MCP chipset, has an integrated GeForce 4 MX GPU with up to 128MB Frame Buffer, onboard sound, etc. I have installed 384 MB DDR RAM (128MB + 256MB) both are DDR266.

Here's my story and the problems I encountered:

I used a Duron 750Mhz. I had difficulties during the first time I installed and set-up the board, I cant get the board running (no screen, no boot up) after fiddling with the RAM I finally able to get the board running. (I never knew what is the cause of the problem, I cant conclude if its just a loosed ram or wrong jumper cause I made sure I installed everything properly, but after many trials I was able to get the board running and I added additional 256MB RAM)

After that I tried re-installing WinXP Pro, everytime winxp is about to install the files the system hangs goes to blue screen and restarts itself, it went that way for two days until I discovered that it was caused by the processor overheating due to improper installation of heatsink.

After the installation of Windows I noticed that the Windows loading screen the winxp logo with the loading blue bars is a little bit distorted and it takes a little bit long to load. I dont know if its with the harddisk cause the hdd simultaneously gone haywire with after installing the OS. What happened with the hdd is that it is being detected int he CMOS setup as as a different version and I needed to auto-detect the the disk twice in order for the correct version to be detected after a while I figured it out and fixed my disk by changing the jumpers to cable select and used a new IDE cable (the IDE cable instantly became busted simultaneously with the HDD with no apparent reason, and now I think the hdd is a little bit damaged because the jumper setting for master drive is not working anymore)

After all that, I managed to get everything work perfectly and smoothly. Now the only problems I have are:

1. Why is the speed of my processor not properly listed? it is clocked at 742-745Mhz when it should be at 750Mhz? is there something wrong with the board or should I change the settings? and Where can I find a bios update with this board? I just downloaded some updated bios on the board manufacturer Biostar/Redfox, but the onboard bios update utility detects the new bios as different

2. Is there an issue with PC266 RAMs? whats better to use the PC333 or the PC266 on this board?

3. Whats wrong woth WinXP's loading screen? and why did it take longer to load compared to my older/slower board?

Any comments on the M7NCG 400? And whats the good things about this board?

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Did you buy this board new or is it a refurb? You definitely need to flash to the latest BIOS--www.biostar.com.tw The nForce2 IGP boards were pretty picky about RAM. Remember that you have forced the mobo into single channel memory mode by using mismatched DIMMs. To get the all-important dual channel operation, especially when using on-board graphics with nForce2, you must use matched pairs of DIMMs. The board should support DDR266 or 333 just fine. You want to run the ram synchronously with the CPU FSB. In the case of that Duron, that means running the ram at DDR200. No, I am not kidding. You should also use the nForce2/3 v5.10 drivers for this board, and an EARLIER version of the GeForce drivers (no later than 66.93) since many folks have reported problems with the later GeForce drivers and GeForce2 base cards.

Have you tried another monitor to ensure that the onboard video is working properly or is it somehow the monitor? If it is an older CRT, you get jerkiness/corruption due to incompatible timing until you actually get into Windows. I have seen this behavior even on older LCDs.

 

[Battousai001]

Originally posted by: ChiPCGuy
Did you buy this board new or is it a refurb? You definitely need to flash to the latest BIOS--www.biostar.com.tw The nForce2 IGP boards were pretty picky about RAM. Remember that you have forced the mobo into single channel memory mode by using mismatched DIMMs. To get the all-important dual channel operation, especially when using on-board graphics with nForce2, you must use matched pairs of DIMMs. The board should support DDR266 or 333 just fine. You want to run the ram synchronously with the CPU FSB. In the case of that Duron, that means running the ram at DDR200. No, I am not kidding. You should also use the nForce2/3 v5.10 drivers for this board, and an EARLIER version of the GeForce drivers (no later than 66.93) since many folks have reported problems with the later GeForce drivers and GeForce2 base cards.

Have you tried another monitor to ensure that the onboard video is working properly or is it somehow the monitor? If it is an older CRT, you get jerkiness/corruption due to incompatible timing until you actually get into Windows. I have seen this behavior even on older LCDs.

Thanks for the reply! Right now having problems with the GeForce 4 MX Integrated GPU drivers, before I used the drivers supplied by the mobo manufacturer and it is so bad! mild graphics games are unplayable, after that I tried switching on the drivers supplied by winxp and fortunately it worked. And I decided to try the latest drivers (Forceware 78.01) from nvidia but the problem is somes games are getting buggy and windows is saying that the latest drivers (the 78.01) has not passed the logo testing (WHQL). right now Im looking for older drivers for this gpu... Im suppose to use the drivers supplied by winXP Pro but I'll try first the older drivers from nvidia the 52.xx i guess..

Im not sure regarding the monitor....

Right now I was surprised.. I was able to overclock succesfully this Duron 750Mhz to 825mhz (just trying out) without any system crashes and without even overheating, I think maybe because of the board and the ram thats why I was able to overclock this, before I cant even push this duron pass 800mhz. on my old ECS KT133 mobo.

 

[Battousai001]

BTW I would like to ask... whats the difference between the CPU speed and the CPU Clock? Is the CPU speed not constant while the CPU clock is? because I have installed an application that came from the mobo manufacturer named "Warpspeeder" it is more of a monitoring software that takes its info from he hardware monitor of the board, it shows temp., voltage, cpu speed, cpu clock etc. On the CPU speed it is constantly changing from 790-820Mhz.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Something is wrong. It should not vary like that. CPU speed and CPU clock usually, but not always, mean the same thing. The Duron is based upon a CPU FSB of 100Mhz (200Mhz DDR) and the final internal CPU speed is a multiplier of that FSB. If the Duron is a 750, then the multiplier is 7.5. As far as video drivers, the ones that came with XP are probably based off a very old set, and I would try out the 52.XX to 66.93. I have used 66.93 on a couple of GeForce4 MX cards and they have worked out.

I would solve the other issues first before overclocking. Reset everything to default in BIOS, changing the options you need to (such as disabling AC97 audio if you are using a sound card, etc.) and then see what CPU-Z says regarding the CPU.

What is the BIOS date on the mobo? I will check around and see if I can locate the latest BIOS.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Here is the link to the BIOS for the M7NCG 400: http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboard/socket_a/m7ncg4/ncg40916bf.exe

There is another one, too, and is for the M7NCG 400 rev. 7.X: http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboard/socket_a/m7ncg4/ncg40916bf.exe

I think they are the same BIOS, but be sure which one you are flashing (confirm what mobo you have). The date is 9/22/2004 on the BIOS code.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Also, jumper JCLK3 on your motherboard should be CLOSED, for 100Mhz (200Mhz DDR) operation of this CPU. I believe it is OPEN by default, which forces a minimum of 133Mhz (266Mhz DDR) operation--not appropriate for your Duron 750.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Oh, one more thing--be sure and use only two DIMMS to get dual channel operation -- I think the DIMMS are color coded, but check your manual to be sure -- (your 2 x 256 MB) and set the speed in BIOS as DDR200 (100Mhz). The older Socket A processors work best when you run the memory synchronously with the RAM. If the DIMMS are already DDR266 or DDR333 rated, you can probably get away with setting a CAS 2.0 latency and lower the memory timings across the board--just be sure and test with MemTest86 v. 1.60 after doing this. You can download the bootable ISO for burning onto a CD at http://www.memtest.org/download/1.60/memtest86+-1.60.iso.zip

 

[Battousai001]

BTW here are updated information. I just discovered that my other DDR RAM module is a PC333 (the 256MB DDR) and the other is PC266 (the 128MB DDR Apacer brand). I tried the the latest bios from the biostar website before but the flash utility detects it as a different version (I updated it via the floppy disk) but I'll try it again with a new floppy drive and a floppy disk.

I just overclocked the cpu a little bit further and I noticed that the fluctuation became normal (stays at 902Mhz all the time) I think the software had a problem... i tried that cpu-z before but that was a long time ago, thanks for reminding me again btw I tried overclocking my cpu from 750 to 900 now (120Mhz FSB X 7.5).

Can I still further overclock this? I noticed that when I tried overcloking it a little bit further (121-122Mhz FSB) it sometimes crashes or restarts. Is it possible for me to increase the voltage? I never tried it before and I just learned that increasing the voltage can further increase overclocked speeds (is this true?) and how far can this Duron (spitfire), M7NCG mobo, DDR 333,266 RAM can go with proper cooling and right voltage?

Regarding the CPU temperature. Before when when it was on the 750Mhz cpu speed the temp. is 50-52 degrees, when I overclocked it noticed that the temperature just increased very very slightly (49-52 degrees). what I did was I lapped the heat sink and then I re-applied a thermal paste then I tried overclocking it to 900Mhz with temperature at 49-52degrees (Im wondering what could be the temperature if I returned the speed to normal with a lapped heatsink and a new thermal paste).

 

[Battousai001]

Originally posted by: ChiPCGuy
Also, jumper JCLK3 on your motherboard should be CLOSED, for 100Mhz (200Mhz DDR) operation of this CPU. I believe it is OPEN by default, which forces a minimum of 133Mhz (266Mhz DDR) operation--not appropriate for your Duron 750.

Yup, I closed the jumper and set it at 100mhz FSB. but even though I open it it still detects the fsb at default of 100mhz. (Im not sure though)

whats the difference of closing the jumper (setting it to 100mhz) if I can change the FSB at the bios setup? and whats the difference if I opened it when on the bios setup it detects as 100fsb at default?

 

[Battousai001]

Originally posted by: ChiPCGuy
Oh, one more thing--be sure and use only two DIMMS to get dual channel operation -- I think the DIMMS are color coded, but check your manual to be sure -- (your 2 x 256 MB) and set the speed in BIOS as DDR200 (100Mhz). The older Socket A processors work best when you run the memory synchronously with the RAM. If the DIMMS are already DDR266 or DDR333 rated, you can probably get away with setting a CAS 2.0 latency and lower the memory timings across the board--just be sure and test with MemTest86 v. 1.60 after doing this. You can download the bootable ISO for burning onto a CD at http://www.memtest.org/download/1.60/memtest86+-1.60.iso.zip

How would I know if the operation is at dual-channel (128-bit performance) already? The manula says that in order to attain dual-channel mode there should be atleast 2 or more dimm modules installed (combination of DIMMA and DIMMB), and if there is only one DIMM module installed the memory performs only at 64-bit. Is ther an applicaiton or a way to know if it is running at dual-channel (128bit)? BTW my memory modules are 1-PC333 356MB DDR RAM and 1- PC266 128MB DDR RAM installed on DIMM slot 1 and 3 respectively.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Originally posted by: Battousai001

Originally posted by: ChiPCGuy
Oh, one more thing--be sure and use only two DIMMS to get dual channel operation -- I think the DIMMS are color coded, but check your manual to be sure -- (your 2 x 256 MB) and set the speed in BIOS as DDR200 (100Mhz). The older Socket A processors work best when you run the memory synchronously with the RAM. If the DIMMS are already DDR266 or DDR333 rated, you can probably get away with setting a CAS 2.0 latency and lower the memory timings across the board--just be sure and test with MemTest86 v. 1.60 after doing this. You can download the bootable ISO for burning onto a CD at http://www.memtest.org/download/1.60/memtest86+-1.60.iso.zip

How would I know if the operation is at dual-channel (128-bit performance) already? The manula says that in order to attain dual-channel mode there should be atleast 2 or more dimm modules installed (combination of DIMMA and DIMMB), and if there is only one DIMM module installed the memory performs only at 64-bit. Is ther an applicaiton or a way to know if it is running at dual-channel (128bit)? BTW my memory modules are 1-PC333 356MB DDR RAM and 1- PC266 128MB DDR RAM installed on DIMM slot 1 and 3 respectively.

Memtest will indicate if the memory is operating in dual channel mode or not. It will identify the frequency, memory timings, and whether or not it is in dual channel mode. You will typically see a memory bandwidth of about 1100MB/S in dual mode using DDR333 running synch with a Barton XP core. I cannot say what you might see with a Spitfire core Duron and running at DDR200.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Originally posted by: Battousai001

Originally posted by: ChiPCGuy
Also, jumper JCLK3 on your motherboard should be CLOSED, for 100Mhz (200Mhz DDR) operation of this CPU. I believe it is OPEN by default, which forces a minimum of 133Mhz (266Mhz DDR) operation--not appropriate for your Duron 750.

Yup, I closed the jumper and set it at 100mhz FSB. but even though I open it it still detects the fsb at default of 100mhz. (Im not sure though)

whats the difference of closing the jumper (setting it to 100mhz) if I can change the FSB at the bios setup? and whats the difference if I opened it when on the bios setup it detects as 100fsb at default?

Ok, so your board is auto detecting anyway. Appears the jumper does not mean much in your case. I took a look at your mobo manual on line and it did indicate to set it, but apparently it is more for overclocking and locks the FSB at 100Mhz vs. allowing to go higher if jumpered a certain way. If you were to install a 133Mhz FSB processor or higher, you would need to set the jumper appropriately, but apparently not if it is a 100Mhz FSB processor.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Originally posted by: Battousai001
BTW here are updated information. I just discovered that my other DDR RAM module is a PC333 (the 256MB DDR) and the other is PC266 (the 128MB DDR Apacer brand). I tried the the latest bios from the biostar website before but the flash utility detects it as a different version (I updated it via the floppy disk) but I'll try it again with a new floppy drive and a floppy disk.

I just overclocked the cpu a little bit further and I noticed that the fluctuation became normal (stays at 902Mhz all the time) I think the software had a problem... i tried that cpu-z before but that was a long time ago, thanks for reminding me again btw I tried overclocking my cpu from 750 to 900 now (120Mhz FSB X 7.5).

Can I still further overclock this? I noticed that when I tried overcloking it a little bit further (121-122Mhz FSB) it sometimes crashes or restarts. Is it possible for me to increase the voltage? I never tried it before and I just learned that increasing the voltage can further increase overclocked speeds (is this true?) and how far can this Duron (spitfire), M7NCG mobo, DDR 333,266 RAM can go with proper cooling and right voltage?

Regarding the CPU temperature. Before when when it was on the 750Mhz cpu speed the temp. is 50-52 degrees, when I overclocked it noticed that the temperature just increased very very slightly (49-52 degrees). what I did was I lapped the heat sink and then I re-applied a thermal paste then I tried overclocking it to 900Mhz with temperature at 49-52degrees (Im wondering what could be the temperature if I returned the speed to normal with a lapped heatsink and a new thermal paste).

Given that you are using mismatched DIMMS, especially regarding size as opposed to speed, my guess is that you are in single channel mode. I cannot say how far you can push your mobo---that is so dependent upon your CPU, the motherboard in question, the BIOS, the quality of your other components, and on and on. I am not surprised you started getting issues at 120Mhz and higher. You probably hit the wall at default voltage. I don't know if your board supports a higher voltage via BIOS--you will have to look in the BIOS and determine this. Be careful, overvolting a CPU is one of main things that can permanently damage it, regardless of how good your cooling is. As for a BIOS update, you might write Biostar and ask where/how to get the latest BIOS.

 

[Battousai001]

Originally posted by: ChiPCGuy

Originally posted by: Battousai001
BTW here are updated information. I just discovered that my other DDR RAM module is a PC333 (the 256MB DDR) and the other is PC266 (the 128MB DDR Apacer brand). I tried the the latest bios from the biostar website before but the flash utility detects it as a different version (I updated it via the floppy disk) but I'll try it again with a new floppy drive and a floppy disk.

I just overclocked the cpu a little bit further and I noticed that the fluctuation became normal (stays at 902Mhz all the time) I think the software had a problem... i tried that cpu-z before but that was a long time ago, thanks for reminding me again btw I tried overclocking my cpu from 750 to 900 now (120Mhz FSB X 7.5).

Can I still further overclock this? I noticed that when I tried overcloking it a little bit further (121-122Mhz FSB) it sometimes crashes or restarts. Is it possible for me to increase the voltage? I never tried it before and I just learned that increasing the voltage can further increase overclocked speeds (is this true?) and how far can this Duron (spitfire), M7NCG mobo, DDR 333,266 RAM can go with proper cooling and right voltage?

Regarding the CPU temperature. Before when when it was on the 750Mhz cpu speed the temp. is 50-52 degrees, when I overclocked it noticed that the temperature just increased very very slightly (49-52 degrees). what I did was I lapped the heat sink and then I re-applied a thermal paste then I tried overclocking it to 900Mhz with temperature at 49-52degrees (Im wondering what could be the temperature if I returned the speed to normal with a lapped heatsink and a new thermal paste).

Given that you are using mismatched DIMMS, especially regarding size as opposed to speed, my guess is that you are in single channel mode. I cannot say how far you can push your mobo---that is so dependent upon your CPU, the motherboard in question, the BIOS, the quality of your other components, and on and on. I am not surprised you started getting issues at 120Mhz and higher. You probably hit the wall at default voltage. I don't know if your board supports a higher voltage via BIOS--you will have to look in the BIOS and determine this. Be careful, overvolting a CPU is one of main things that can permanently damage it, regardless of how good your cooling is. As for a BIOS update, you might write Biostar and ask where/how to get the latest BIOS.

What do you mean by "using mismatched DIMMS, especially regarding size as opposed to speed, my guess is that you are in single channel mode"

Does that mean if I used mismatched dimms with different speeds it automatically runs at single channel mode? and I would like to know is the ram frequency i.e. PC266, PC33 etc. means that it can run at a maximum of 266Mhz fsb, 333Mhz fsb? Im still confused with the RAM Speed. unlike the older SDR's (PC100, PC133)

I have looked at the bios regarding the voltage and I think it supports increasing the cpu vcore to a higher voltage but Im not sure what is the exact volatage of the CPU, it says "VCore = 1.65V". I think I'll be trying to increase the vcore once or twice and see what will be the result on the 900Mhz -920Mhz. Ive read in THG that this type of duron (spitfire) can run at a mximum of 950mhz overclocked speed with an SDR ram without any glitches on a maximum of 1.85v. Im not sure though with my duron, I'll think I'll try it out very slowly and surely so as not to damage anything....

I'll try posting on the overclocking section if theres a problem with the my overclocking. Thanks so much for your assistance!

 

[Copperpipe]

Try to use a more updated processor such as a Palomino, TBred, or Barton.

As I recall, there is a problem with this board when using older CPU's such as the Duron & Tbirds.

I had a 1 ghz unlocked Morgan which could not overclock in this board - the CPU multipliers selected in the BIOS setup were simply ignored. I ended up replacing it with a Tbred B that worked fine.

Good luck