Problem with new PSU (Seasonic S12)

[MIDIman]

I've been running my system nice and smooth for a while now. Upgraded a few parts last night and now I'm having a boot up issue.

Previous system:
Abit IC7-max3, Zalman 300w, 1gb Kingston HyperX, Nvidia ti9600, NEC 3500a, Seagate 7200.7 160gb and 200gb

Upgrades:
Seasonic S12 330w, ATI 9600, added SATA Seagate 7200.8 250gb.


The computer runs OK, but never boots the first time I try. Everything spins up in the computer, but I get no beep, no BIOS screen, etc. If I hold the power button 10 seconds, it turns off, but generally, when I try again and again using that method, I get the same results. However, if I flip the power switch on the PSU to OFF, flip it back on and try again, it usually boots OK.

Any clue what this might be? How can I troubleshoot this?

 

[leegroves]

Humm..... Screwy PSU?... Have you tried calling Seasonic Tech support? Might not be fun but they know more about their stuff than anyone prolly.

 

[MIDIman]

Is it possible that the third HD is drawing too much power on bootup? And if so, would this require a higher wattage PSU?

There are some other external items hooked up. Would these be drawing power as well?

USB 1.1 Evolution UC-33e fader controller
Canopus ADVC-110 DV converter

 

[DerwenArtos12]

if it is the hard drives giving you problems then you *should* be able to set a hdd pre-delay in your bios. With the ammount of hardware in your system was there a signifigant reason you didn't get a higher wattage power supply?

 

[Tostada]

SeaSonics makes great PSUs, but the cheapest one (330W) only has 8A on 12V1.

Modern Barracudas also draw the most power of any hard drive when spinning up. They can draw 2.8A, which is more than 15,000 RPM drives.

It looks like you have 3 Barracudas. Your 12V1 isn't even rated at enough amps to spin up your hard drives, let alone power your optical drives and video card. You probably need to cycle the power to essentially give the drives a running start for the 2nd time you try and boot.

That's the problem with dual-rail systems. There's no reason you should need even 330W to run that system, but for a dual-rail PSU, you're usually going to need 400W+ to get a strong 12V1 rail. The SeaSonic 430W is what you want.

 

[MIDIman]

Thank you Tostada and DerwenArtos12. I'll try removing the exra HD, and the IDE delay tonight.

Question - does the IDE delay option affect overall HD performance, or is it only concerning bootup?

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: MIDIman
Thank you Tostada and DerwenArtos12. I'll try removing the exra HD, and the IDE delay tonight.

Question - does the IDE delay option affect overall HD performance, or is it only concerning bootup?

It only affects the bootup spin time, nothing else - mine is set for 1 second

 

[Tostada]

Yeah, IDE delay is a good thing. It puts less stress on the PSU. Usually it doesn't really help all that much because you can't configure the drives independently. If you set a 2 sec delay, every one of your drives is going to wait 2 sec and still spin up at the same time. Ideally, you'd have each of your drives spin up sequentially (board posts, wait 1 sec, C: spins up, wait 2 sec, D: spins up, wait 2 sec, E: spins up). If you could set it up like that, you'd probably be able to add a 4th drive with no problems.

SCSI drives usually have jumpers to set a spin-up delay so you can configure them somewhat independantly, and you can also set them to not spinup at all until the controller tells them to, but there are only a few old ATA drives I've seen that let you set a delay. That should be a standard feature, really. They should just make 3 jumpers on every drive allowing you to set any delay you want between 0-7 sec.

 

[MIDIman]

OK - just tested this. I first tried the IDE delay (labelled Delay IDE Initial (seconds) - I set it to 10 seconds, and still have the same problem.

If I remove the power and data cable of one of my drives (not necessarily the SATA drive - also tried the master PATA), the problem goes away!


So - will a higher watt PSU do the trick? Its a lot of cash to throw down. I'll probably just put the new one in my AMD box and sell the older 300w Seasonic TOrnado that's currently in there.

 

[Zepper]

You have two 12V rails - try tapping into the other one for some drive power. The problem is that you have enough 12V Amps but they are not distributed between the two rails properly for your system. Some PSUs have a switch to allow a change from split to single 12V rails - but not the Seasonic.
. This is the whole problem with the split rail fad. I still recommend single rail. You wouldn't have had this problem with a Zippy of about the same 330 - 350W rating. Probably wouldn't have cost any more either.

.bh.

 

[MIDIman]

Originally posted by: Zepper
You have two 12V rails - try tapping into the other one for some drive power.

Not sure what you mean by this.

I've particularly bought Seasonic's because of their heat->noise ratio (this is my second). I've gone through so many PSUs over the past decade or so that required significant modding in order to be silent, but the Seasonic Tornado (and now the S12) are by far the quietest among all the ones I've tested (two Zalmans, two or three Antecs, two Fortrons, generic ones, even a QTechnology).

Sounds like I just need to get the next watt stepping.

 

[Tostada]

Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about "tapping into the other rail." 12V2 is almost exclusively for the CPU, so I can't see how you'd tap into that without splicing a molex connector into the 4-pin PSU connector.

The next step up from the 330W really isn't much stronger. The 430W is probably the best deal because all the rails are a lot stronger.

 

[MIDIman]

Does it matter what line of power connectors you use?

i.e. - there are about 4 lines of power connectors. One of them has 2 sata (going to the sata drive), one is going to the DVD burner only, and a third is powering the two PATA drives and the front fan. Is it possible that putting one of the PATA drives on its own connector will help out?

Also note that I have two zalman fanmates at 5-6v being used on the rear and cpu fans.

Might experiment with this tonight...

Most importantly, is there any damage being done by using the computer like this? i.e. generally each time I turn this computer on, I power up, wait about 10 seconds, flip the switch in the back to off - then turn it all back on.

 

[Zepper]

Won't the reset button do it? Be a lot less wear and tear than using the on/off switch on the back.

.bh.

 

[MIDIman]

Originally posted by: Zepper
Won't the reset button do it? Be a lot less wear and tear than using the on/off switch on the back.

Actually no...it won't boot until I completely cut the power.

 

[MIDIman]

Just realized that if I keep the power switch cut when I turn off the computer, it seems to boot up OK the first time (i.e. switching ther power switch back on first).

Reboots are also always perfect (i.e. WinXP restarts)


Again though - if I just "make do" with this process, am I hurting anything?

 

[biostud]

Personally I would contact seasonic to hear their response, a normally functioning PSU shouldn't do this, better you find out you have a faulty PSU now than later.

 

[Tostada]

Originally posted by: MIDIman
Again though - if I just "make do" with this process, am I hurting anything?

I don't think there's anything that the process you're talking about could hurt, other than the apparent stress of your PSU having too many hard drives hooked up to it.

Once the hard drives spin up, it would probably be easier on the PSU if you just left the system on all the time. It seems pretty unhappy about booting.

 

[Zepper]

Rig some kind of delay in the drive power up sequence or tap into the other +12 rail for some drive power. To do the latter, take a standard drive power splitter (Y), cut off all wires from one leg of the Y except the yellow and then cut the yellow only at the drive connector (what you want is a free yellow wire end), splice that wire into the other +12 rail (probably only used for the P4-12V connector) meaning one of the yellow wires going to the P4 connector using a tap like this: low volt tap in or this: another tap in . You will also need to get the contact for the yellow wire out of the drive connector you are going to plug the Y into as you don't want to connect the two rails together. Tie that yellow wire and contact back with zip or twist tie and cover the contact with electrical tape or shrink tubing.

.bh.