Pro democracy demonstrators in Libya take over Islamist group HQ. Wait, what?

[Jhhnn]

I recently had a discussion with a group of Muslims here in the UK. Their longing for a society ruled by sharia law was surprising to me considering that they were what most people would call moderates.

They also had a perfect reason why killing non Muslims is ok in such a society and actually encouraged according to the Quaran. Mocccchhhhammat (pubes) states that everyone is born a Muslim and the holy law states that the punishment for apostasy is death. Everyone that's not a Muslim is an apostate deserving of death by this reasoning.

Religion.... not even once...

Zionist hogwash. Christians and Jews are "People of the Book", the Bible, and are not required to convert. Jewish communities founded by refugees from Catholic Spain in 1492 thrived across N Africa & the middle east, and many had existed long before. Jews died with Muslims in their unsuccessful defense of Jerusalem in the First Crusade.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Zionist hogwash. Christians and Jews are "People of the Book", the Bible, and are not required to convert. Jewish communities founded by refugees from Catholic Spain in 1492 thrived across N Africa & the middle east, and many had existed long before. Jews died with Muslims in their unsuccessful defense of Jerusalem in the First Crusade.

Are you saying that apostasy isn't punishable by death by Islamic law or are you saying that the Quaran doesn't state that everyone is born Muslim?

Actually, i don't see how your post has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING i said but hey, perhaps you understand it.

 

[Pulsar]

yay for hope. Good for McCain standing up for them as well. Wonder why Fox News isnt covering this.....

Fox news had it front page first thing this morning. What exactly are you trying to incorrectly imply?

 

[Pulsar]

Are you saying that apostasy isn't punishable by death by Islamic law or are you saying that the Quaran doesn't state that everyone is born Muslim?

Actually, i don't see how your post has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING i said but hey, perhaps you understand it.

Actually, for once I agree with you..... his post made zero sense. I think he was just dying to call someone a Zionist and you were his first opportunity today.

 

[Jhhnn]

Are you saying that apostasy isn't punishable by death by Islamic law or are you saying that the Quaran doesn't state that everyone is born Muslim?

Actually, i don't see how your post has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING i said but hey, perhaps you understand it.

Apostasy doesn't mean what you think it means-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

People of the Book explained-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Apostasy doesn't mean what you think it means-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

People of the Book explained-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book

Son, if everyone is born a Muslim but later rejects Islam then isn't everyone who isn't a Muslim an apostate?

"Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ردة‎ riddah, literally means: "relapse/regress" but usually translates to "apostasy", or ارتداد irtidād) is commonly defined in Islam as the rejection in word or deed of one's former religion (apostasy) by a person who was previously a follower of Islam."

I still don't know what this has to do with "People of the Book"?

I also don't know what it has to do with Zionism since we're not debating Israel here. Is it because i'm Jewish by heritage? I'm also an atheist with who vehemently dislike orthodox Judaism.

 

[Incorruptible]

Actually, for once I agree with you..... his post made zero sense. I think he was just dying to call someone a Zionist and you were his first opportunity today.

This. He feels special by using big words

 

[DrewSG3]

obama has done a lot to hurt the middle east

Like what? And please, no Fox News lies like apologizing.

 

[Jhhnn]

Son, if everyone is born a Muslim but later rejects Islam then isn't everyone who isn't a Muslim an apostate?

Obviously, if muslims believed that, then Jews & christians alike would have been annihilated long ago in places with muslim majorities. But they haven't been, so muslims must not believe that.

Observable facts trump bullshit, which is all you offer.

Basically, Muslims hold Jews & Christians in special regard, because they submit to God through the teachings of Abraham, or Jesus & all the prophets save one, Muhammad. Muslims hold all those teachings as sacred, Christianity & Judaism as forms of the true faith, if imperfect forms.

Their radicals take it further, but they're radicals.

 

[cybrsage]

Zionist hogwash. Christians and Jews are "People of the Book", the Bible, and are not required to convert. Jewish communities founded by refugees from Catholic Spain in 1492 thrived across N Africa & the middle east, and many had existed long before. Jews died with Muslims in their unsuccessful defense of Jerusalem in the First Crusade.

That was centuries ago. Muslims now hate Jews more than you hate logic...and that is a lot of hate!

 

[Jhhnn]

That was centuries ago. Muslims now hate Jews more than you hate logic...and that is a lot of hate!

Actually, it was the Zionist expansion in British Palestine & the ultimate expulsion of Palestinians from what is now Israel & the denial of right to return that set off the current wave of hatred. While not in perfect harmony at all times, Sephardic Jews lived in Islamic countries from Morocco to Iran prior to that, and had for over 450 years.

 

[cybrsage]

Actually, it was the Zionist expansion in British Palestine & the ultimate expulsion of Palestinians from what is now Israel & the denial of right to return that set off the current wave of hatred. While not in perfect harmony at all times, Sephardic Jews lived in Islamic countries from Morocco to Iran prior to that, and had for over 450 years.

Not in perfect harmony is an understatement. Being second class citizens is more like what happened, but when you compare oppression to extermination, oppression looks wonderful. This is what you are doing.

Are you aware that more Jews were kicked out of Arab lands following the failed Arab invasion of Israel than there were Arabs who fled Israel when the Arab nations invaded?

More than 800,000 Jews lived in the Arab world at the time of Israel’s founding. Virtually all of them left, fled or were forced out of their homes after Israel’s birth, with more than three-quarters moving to Israel. The once-thriving communities they had established in places such as Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Libya, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Tunisia shrunk and, in some cases, virtually disappeared. In many cases the emigrants were forced to leave behind much of their property.

“It’s important that the world accept and recognize that most of them were forcibly exiled and subjected to the worst kind of anti-Semitic assault,” which included Jews being “attacked, assaulted, killed, robbed,” Diker told JTA. “This issue has been largely ignored by Jewish leaders over the past number of years. They were resettled, so it wasn’t perceived as an acute bleeding.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel...inian-claims-with-refugee-stories-of-its-own/

The UN is holding a conference on it right now (well, starting the 21st). If we tally up all their children and grandchildren, we have equal, or higher, numbers than the Palestinians. The difference is that Israel did not want to see other Jews suffer, so they helped them resettle and obtain a good life. The Arab nations did not care if the Palestinians suffered (and in fact it appears they wanted them to suffer for political gain), so they refused to let them resettle and refused to allow them to obtain a good life.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not in perfect harmony is an understatement. Being second class citizens is more like what happened, but when you compare oppression to extermination, oppression looks wonderful. This is what you are doing.

Are you aware that more Jews were kicked out of Arab lands following the failed Arab invasion of Israel than there were Arabs who fled Israel when the Arab nations invaded?


http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel...inian-claims-with-refugee-stories-of-its-own/

The UN is holding a conference on it right now (well, starting the 21st). If we tally up all their children and grandchildren, we have equal, or higher, numbers than the Palestinians. The difference is that Israel did not want to see other Jews suffer, so they helped them resettle and obtain a good life. The Arab nations did not care if the Palestinians suffered (and in fact it appears they wanted them to suffer for political gain), so they refused to let them resettle and refused to allow them to obtain a good life.

None of that alters the fact that Zionist militias drove the Pals from where they lived & then the Israeli govt refused to allow them to return, setting off the current situation. Of course the Israeli govt accepted Jews- it's the whole point of Zionism, to establish a Jewish state. That's why the Pals were not allowed to return- to make room for Jews. That's why expropriation of west bank territories is ongoing, relentless- to make room for Jews.

It's not like govts of muslim countries necessarily forced Jews out, either. Moroccan officials tried to get their Jews to stay, and even to come back, to no avail.

Which has little to do with the current situation in Libya. Anti Jewish sentiment was encouraged by the fascists between the wars, erupting in violence afterwards, and again after the 1967 war. It seems unlikely that relations with Israel will be amicable, regardless of who ultimately assumes power.

 

[cybrsage]

None of that alters the fact that Zionist militias drove the Pals from where they lived & then the Israeli govt refused to allow them to return, setting off the current situation.

You pretend history started in the 1800s. Stop that, history goes back much further. You are also pretending Islam did not do anything to the Jews in the area as well. Stop inventing an alternate timeline for the planet, it makes you look foolish.

Of course the Israeli govt accepted Jews- it's the whole point of Zionism, to establish a Jewish state. That's why the Pals were not allowed to return- to make room for Jews. That's why expropriation of west bank territories is ongoing, relentless- to make room for Jews.

They were not allowed to return because they were part of the losing side. The Pals joined with the invaders.

It's not like govts of muslim countries necessarily forced Jews out, either. Moroccan officials tried to get their Jews to stay, and even to come back, to no avail.

I love it when you joke around.

Which has little to do with the current situation in Libya. Anti Jewish sentiment was encouraged by the fascists between the wars, erupting in violence afterwards, and again after the 1967 war. It seems unlikely that relations with Israel will be amicable, regardless of who ultimately assumes power.

What I quoted, from you, also has nothing to do with the current situation in Libya. You may recall being the one who said this:

Zionist hogwash. Christians and Jews are "People of the Book", the Bible, and are not required to convert. Jewish communities founded by refugees from Catholic Spain in 1492 thrived across N Africa & the middle east, and many had existed long before. Jews died with Muslims in their unsuccessful defense of Jerusalem in the First Crusade.

 

[Jhhnn]

You pretend history started in the 1800s. Stop that, history goes back much further. You are also pretending Islam did not do anything to the Jews in the area as well. Stop inventing an alternate timeline for the planet, it makes you look foolish.

I did mention events as far back as the expulsion of Jews from Spain & the Crusades, Jewish communities existing among muslim majorities for hundreds of years, but that doesn't fit with your own faux history.

They were not allowed to return because they were part of the losing side. The Pals joined with the invaders.

The Zionist militias were the invaders who drove the Pals out of their homes. When Arab govts tried to intervene, they too were defeated.

I love it when you joke around.

I love it when you deny easily verifiable fact in favor of the usual Zionist propaganda-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Morocco#Modern_times

What I quoted, from you, also has nothing to do with the current situation in Libya. You may recall being the one who said this:

Yes, I pointed out that the relationship between muslims & jews goes back a long way, made much, much worse by the British mandate in Palestine & the foundation of the state of Israel. Are you disputing that?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Obviously, if muslims believed that, then Jews & christians alike would have been annihilated long ago in places with muslim majorities. But they haven't been, so muslims must not believe that.

Observable facts trump bullshit, which is all you offer.

Basically, Muslims hold Jews & Christians in special regard, because they submit to God through the teachings of Abraham, or Jesus & all the prophets save one, Muhammad. Muslims hold all those teachings as sacred, Christianity & Judaism as forms of the true faith, if imperfect forms.

Their radicals take it further, but they're radicals.

If you ask a Muslim he'd tell you two things. First, the laws are only applicable in nations where Sharia law is the law and second, they want all of the world to adopt Sharia law.

I don't give a fuck about your "people of the book", why don't you go ask Hamas, Hisb'Allah, coptic Christians in Egypt or Jews in the border towns who are under constant terror attacks.

They'll tell you all about how much respect these fuckers have for "people of the book"...

As you said, observable facts trumps bullsheit.