Pro choice or pro life? With poll

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Abortion

  • Pro life

  • Pro choice


Results are only viewable after voting.

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
But they are cool with building prisons and shit down the road. Remember all life is precious till it pops out of the womb then its f' that let them eat cake from there on out.

Complete nonsense. The Catholic Church, the most intractable opponent of abortion, is as heavily involved in providing healthcare, charities, and homeless shelters as any other major player.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,055
12,245
136
Generally people don't disapprove of abortion when there's a threat to the mother's life, but killing a child for his or her own well-being makes precisely zero sense.
I don't agree. I think it's vastly more responsible to not have a child that you are not prepared to have than it is to pop out a baby you don't want and can't afford just because other people think you need to.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
But they are cool with building prisons and shit down the road. Remember all life is precious till it pops out of the womb then its f' that let them eat cake from there on out.

Even funnier (and I mean some real dark comedy here) is the religious right "sanctity of life" people warmongering to kill poor browns. Damn that Jesus really holds a grudge against them poors.


I don't agree. I think it's vastly more responsible to not have a child that you are not prepared to have than it is to pop out a baby you don't want and can't afford just because other people think you need to.

This concerns personal responsibility about as much as conservative types ever assume any.

When it comes down to it these are just pieces of shit always looking to kick down at people worse off than them, all the while quoting scripture like morality means something to them.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
25,992
23,792
136
Complete nonsense. The Catholic Church, the most intractable opponent of abortion, is as heavily involved in providing healthcare, charities, and homeless shelters as any other major player.

That is the Catholic Church, certainly not the universal view of folks here or in the conservative movement. So no it isn't complete nonsense.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,749
4,558
136
Actually they tend to argue the other way, the mother MUST have the baby and the mother MUST get no public funds to take care of the unwanted baby once it is born... because that is what Jesus would do.... .... bunch of fucking of sociopaths
If they truly believe the child is sacred and innocent then they should not punish the infant by denying the infant healthcare and foodstamps to spite the irresponsible mother.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
If they truly believe the child is sacred and innocent then they should not punish the infant by denying the infant healthcare and foodstamps to spite the irresponsible mother.

Naw dude, the kid is poor, jesus would kill it himself if it weren't useful for the greater crusade of punishing the destitute mother.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
I don't agree. I think it's vastly more responsible to not have a child that you are not prepared to have than it is to pop out a baby you don't want and can't afford just because other people think you need to.

Not my point. You cited that pregnancy in older women is risky to both mother and baby, which is true. But if we're arguing for killing the child, I don't understand any concern for his or her safety.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Not my point. You cited that pregnancy in older women is risky to both mother and baby, which is true. But if we're arguing for killing the child, I don't understand any concern for his or her safety.

Let's not pretend people like you give a shit over the poors outside the religious satisfaction of watching them suffer. You know, for jesus.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Pro-abortion. I agree with MovingTarget that abortion is tragic, but I see no way to uphold the baby's rights without trampling on the mother's rights. I do agree with banning abortion after the baby is viable outside the womb, but practically I see little way to enforce that. The mother simply lies about the conception date and the abortionist accepts the lie, or else the abortionist simply argues that the abortion is necessary for the mother's mental health.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,614
13,297
146
Not my point. You cited that pregnancy in older women is risky to both mother and baby, which is true. But if we're arguing for killing the child, I don't understand any concern for his or her safety.

I think what he's going for is older parents are at high risk of having genetic problems with potential offspring. If they are looking to abort for the good of the child it's the kind of gentic defects that are incompatible with life.

The woman, her doctor and family might decide that bringing an accidental child into the world who has no chance at anything but a short painful life at great financial and emotional cost to the family is not the appropriate decision.

A late term abortion, (some defects are not identifiable until after 20 weeks) maybe preferable to spare the child pain we wouldn't inflict on a dog and spare the family the emotional and financial costs.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
In good faith, head's up. Especially since IIRC you tend to lean left.

IIRC, PnS does not lean left--he just hates Donald Trump, as any rational human being would. rejection of Donald Trump /= "left"

Rejection of Donald Trump = adult human.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
The correct terms are pro and anti abortion. One side generally thinks abortion should remain legal, and other generally illegal.

Nope, try again. No one likes abortion. But in the real world, adult choices aren't black and white. People have to make tragic decisions all the time. You belittling this is quite childish and naive.

In fact, if you were the data-driven sort, the pro-choice movement is the one that limits abortions. Ending legal abortion is the absolute worst way to save the lives of mothers and embryos that you call humans.
 
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Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
I think what he's going for is older parents are at high risk of having genetic problems with potential offspring. If they are looking to abort for the good of the child it's the kind of gentic defects that are incompatible with life.

Which ultrasounds and a whole gaggle of other prenatal tests would pick up.

The woman, her doctor and family might decide that bringing an accidental child into the world who has no chance at anything but a short painful life at great financial and emotional cost to the family is not the appropriate decision.

Perhaps, but at what point in the child's development do they reach that decision?

If ultrasounds and other test yield that this child is healthy, and that the mother, aged though she is, has a good shot at normal delivery, is it still okay to kill the child?
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Nope, try again. No one likes abortion. But in the real world, adult choices aren't black and white. People have to make tragic decisions all the time. You belittling this is quite childish and naive.

In the real world, adult choices are a labored attempt to sort out the clutter to discern whether the issue is black or white.

An adult says to themselves, "Even at the risk of making my life miserable, I cannot permit myself to kill another person, because murder is wrong."
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,126
126
if you think that fertilized eggs are people but refugee babies aren't... it's time to get your head out of your ass...
 
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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,055
12,245
136
Not my point. You cited that pregnancy in older women is risky to both mother and baby, which is true. But if we're arguing for killing the child, I don't understand any concern for his or her safety.
I was speaking to your "makes zero sense" statement. Frankly, I don't give a damn why someone is getting an abortion, as that's entirely between the doctor and patient and none of my business. If you accompany someone getting abortion, then you'll fully grasp why this is not something that people would just do on a whim, and why nobody would use it as a replacement for contraception--and honestly, even if they do, it's still not my concern. But I can't imagine that being done.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,206
6,799
136
What bugs me: the claims that women who go for non-vital abortions are using it casually, like they're just stopping by the pharmacy for the morning after pill. I can't claim to speak on behalf of all women who've had abortions, but in many of the cases I've heard about it's a serious (occasionally traumatic) ordeal, and carefully considered.

I'm reminded a bit of those people who assume that all poor people are lazy, and that they too could be happy middle-class workers if they'd just pull themselves up by their bootstraps. In both cases, it's really just an attempt to avoid guilt for willingly hurting innocent people. They're all evil, so I don't have to feel bad when I knowingly make them suffer.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,601
4,051
136
Both. Abortion should be legal but discouraged. Government should ensure proper neonatal care and encourage healthy motherhood while simultaneously recognizing that abortion is a basic right.

This about sums up how i feel about it.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,512
29,099
146
What bugs me: the claims that women who go for non-vital abortions are using it casually, like they're just stopping by the pharmacy for the morning after pill. I can't claim to speak on behalf of all women who've had abortions, but in many of the cases I've heard about it's a serious (occasionally traumatic) ordeal, and carefully considered.

I'm reminded a bit of those people who assume that all poor people are lazy, and that they too could be happy middle-class workers if they'd just pull themselves up by their bootstraps. In both cases, it's really just an attempt to avoid guilt for willingly hurting innocent people. They're all evil, so I don't have to feel bad when I knowingly make them suffer..

One must invent a fantasy opposition when the reality does not adequately antagonize their position.
 

colonel

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
1,777
18
81
why the government cares about my choice. The problem is the Government getting into our lives. Enough said! Pro choice
 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
I'm definitely pro choice. In fact, I'm in favor of the government paying for abortions for people who can't afford it. If they can't afford the abortion, they certainly can't afford the child. A child raised by someone who can't afford them and doesn't want them is almost certain to be a drain on society as an adult. It just makes sense.