Prius - any good?

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: kyubi
indeed. instead of a prius get a honda crx. better car and gets 50mpg non hybrid

I love the CRX but there is a HUGE difference between a brand new Prius and a 20 year old CRX, mileage notwithstanding.

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: misle
Personally, I find the Prius to be very ugly. I just don't like the look of it. I would rather have a Honda Civic Hybrid (do they still make them?).

Yes, they still make the Civic Hybrid and the new gen is quite nice.

 

[TigerMonsoonDragon]

exactly shows what you can do when there's not a lot of junk in the trunk so to speak

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Dman877
My mother bought a 2004 Prius (first year for the second gen) and she loves it. In the summer in New England, it gets 50 mpg, in the winter it gets 40. However, it handles like an arcade racing game. There's no communication between driver and road. It's also slow as molasses.

They've had several recalls on it and once, it died on the highway because of a throttle sensor issue. Overall, it's pretty reliable though. I think they have 50k+ on it now and that was the only time it broke down.

Cargo capacity is good, it's also a light car in modern terms, like 2900 lbs. My dad's soon-to-arrive 135i is smaller and much heavier.

Even with snow tires, the Prius isn't great in the snow but getting places in the snow is more about how you drive than what you drive anyway.

If all you need is basic transportation, get a Prius. Frankly, it's a car that makes sense for about 70% of people driving in this country.

One thing I love about my '05 Saturn Ion with Traction Control is that I don't even have to think about it...sun, rain, snow, it doesn't matter. I never have to change tires or change my driving style...it does the work for me! It makes driving in snow about as easy as driving a normal car in rain - completely removes the problem.

The 2009 Prius is looking interesting...it may be the first factory plug-in vehicle on the market, according to the reports I've read. The Popular Mechanics 2009 Prius test drive article said that they suspect that Toyota will first release a plug-in NiMh plug-in and then switch it to a lithium ion later on:

http://www.popularmechanics.co.../new_cars/4227944.html

I'm looking at the Prius for a basic workmobile and grocery-getter, so it seems like a nice option, plus it's techie

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: kyubi
exactly shows what you can do when there's not a lot of junk in the trunk so to speak

You can blame the govt for that. The CRX HF weighed <1800 pounds - there's virtually no way you could fit all of today's required safety equipment in a package that small.

 

[TigerMonsoonDragon]

a govt ya'll elected. also carbon fiber

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: jaredpace
you can add a lithium polymer battery to the spare tire storage area, and a few charging components for about 10,000. The process can be done in colorado or california, but is legal to own operate and drive in all 50 states. It gives you 100-190mpg depending on driving habits & circumstances. here is a guy with 171mpg. I love the prius.

the battery installation process in the prius:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=icRjfaeoQnE

the guy who got 171 mpg filling up at the pumps. (prius holds only 10 gallons as well):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=I5WmcnSkUTw&feature=related

a guy who claims to get 2000 to 2100 mpg in cross country road trips with a prius:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

I like the idea, but not the price. I checked out their website and it says the 100mpg mod is oriented towards early adopters; the price for the 15-mile upgrade is $24k and the 30-mile upgrade is $32k - both more than a brand-new 2008 Prius goes for. Here's the link:

http://www.hybrids-plus.com/ht/products.html

I think the key to the Prius' success is that it's a $20k hybrid that "just works". I did find another mod, however - a solar-panel roof conversion, priced at a much more reasonable $1595:

http://www.solatecllc.com/

The only problem with this mod is that it only gives you an increase of about 2mpg (which isn't even guaranteed, depending on your environment). You can increase your MPG savings by more than double that by doing some simple driving-style changes:

http://mboffin.com/post.aspx?id=1906

The only real turn-off I see for the car right now is the Traction Control issue. I live in a snowy area, so not having a functioning TC system is a major downside.

I just think it'd be cool to have a hybrid car

Its about $8500 - 11000 in colorado. Works on prius year models 2004-2008. Adds weight to the vehicle. Costs approx 41-50Cents per day to charge fully overnight. charge time is 5-6hours for full charge. You are given approx 30-50mile range on battery running completely on electricity wich gives you the gas saving on an average daily city commute. If you go out and hit the open road for some cross-country you're going to drop to 40-60MPG. The way to get 170MPG, is to take a sub-40mile dialy commute in the city without using interstates or highspeed roads. I also hear if the car tops 40-50MPH, then the engine will begin to use gasoline.

If you search PHEV plug-in prius on youtube - you will see many satisfied users with anywhere from 80-190MPG.

80MPG is still 5 times what my f150 gets, and 190MPG is about 12 times better. The prius also only costs about 30 bucks to fill up with gas at $3.10/gallon. People are travelling 1200-1700 miles on that 1 tank.

30 nights of charging your car over the course of a month will cost about $10-14 depending on local grid charges and driving patterns. If you decide to get 4 friends and gear and hit the road for a 400mile road trip. You're probably going to get 42MPG. If you drive exactly 30 miles round trip daily to work, and never go faster than 40MPH in that commute, you may get 185MPG.

 

[JeepinEd]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: swtethan
save your $$ and get a small sedan


btw my bro and his has one, he's selling it

Why is he selling it?

it sucks, and every single service, you have to take to the dealership. A car that is controlled all by computer = you cant work on yourself.

They got suckered by the dealer.
When I purchased my 1st Gen Prius, the dealer told me I had to take it in for every type of service because they needed special tools. He mentioned the mechanic needs to wear special insulated clothing and had to use insulated tools. That is utter bull$h!t.

I have 230K miles on it now. I've done all the services myself, using regular tools. It's just a car, with an additional MAINTENANCE FREE hybrid system. The only time you would need to take it to a dealer is if the actual Hybrid electrical system needed service.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: jaredpace

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: jaredpace
you can add a lithium polymer battery to the spare tire storage area, and a few charging components for about 10,000. The process can be done in colorado or california, but is legal to own operate and drive in all 50 states. It gives you 100-190mpg depending on driving habits & circumstances. here is a guy with 171mpg. I love the prius.

the battery installation process in the prius:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=icRjfaeoQnE

the guy who got 171 mpg filling up at the pumps. (prius holds only 10 gallons as well):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=I5WmcnSkUTw&feature=related

a guy who claims to get 2000 to 2100 mpg in cross country road trips with a prius:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

I like the idea, but not the price. I checked out their website and it says the 100mpg mod is oriented towards early adopters; the price for the 15-mile upgrade is $24k and the 30-mile upgrade is $32k - both more than a brand-new 2008 Prius goes for. Here's the link:

http://www.hybrids-plus.com/ht/products.html

I think the key to the Prius' success is that it's a $20k hybrid that "just works". I did find another mod, however - a solar-panel roof conversion, priced at a much more reasonable $1595:

http://www.solatecllc.com/

The only problem with this mod is that it only gives you an increase of about 2mpg (which isn't even guaranteed, depending on your environment). You can increase your MPG savings by more than double that by doing some simple driving-style changes:

http://mboffin.com/post.aspx?id=1906

The only real turn-off I see for the car right now is the Traction Control issue. I live in a snowy area, so not having a functioning TC system is a major downside.

I just think it'd be cool to have a hybrid car

Its about $8500 - 11000 in colorado. Works on prius year models 2004-2008. Adds weight to the vehicle. Costs approx 41-50Cents per day to charge fully overnight. charge time is 5-6hours for full charge. You are given approx 30-50mile range on battery running completely on electricity wich gives you the gas saving on an average daily city commute. If you go out and hit the open road for some cross-country you're going to drop to 40-60MPG. The way to get 170MPG, is to take a sub-40mile dialy commute in the city without using interstates or highspeed roads. I also hear if the car tops 40-50MPH, then the engine will begin to use gasoline.

If you search PHEV plug-in prius on youtube - you will see many satisfied users with anywhere from 80-190MPG.

80MPG is still 5 times what my f150 gets, and 190MPG is about 12 times better. The prius also only costs about 30 bucks to fill up with gas at $3.10/gallon. People are travelling 1200-1700 miles on that 1 tank.

30 nights of charging your car over the course of a month will cost about $10-14 depending on local grid charges and driving patterns. If you decide to get 4 friends and gear and hit the road for a 400mile road trip. You're probably going to get 42MPG. If you drive exactly 30 miles round trip daily to work, and never go faster than 40MPH in that commute, you may get 185MPG.

Those are some interesting numbers, thanks for taking the guesswork out of it! It seems the modifications are only good if you don't travel long distances too much, which is fine for my situation. Price-wise it doesn't seem very economical, so it'd have to be for more of the "fun" factor. I was spending maybe $300 a month on gas in my last commute, which equates to $3600 a year, so it would take 3 years to start getting a return on the investment. I wonder how long the batteries last...

 

[JulesMaximus]

A friend of mine has a Civic Hybrid and raves about the fuel economy, they really bought it so that his wife could use the carpool lanes though. Other than the poor 0-60 performance they've been happy with it. I've ridden in it and with 4 adults it is sluggish as hell.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: JeepinEd
They got suckered by the dealer.
When I purchased my 1st Gen Prius, the dealer told me I had to take it in for every type of service because they needed special tools. He mentioned the mechanic needs to wear special insulated clothing and had to use insulated tools. That is utter bull$h!t.

I have 230K miles on it now. I've done all the services myself, using regular tools. It's just a car, with an additional MAINTENANCE FREE hybrid system. The only time you would need to take it to a dealer is if the actual Hybrid electrical system needed service.

I used to work at a Ford Dealership and we dealt with quite a few Escape Hybrids. Normal maintenance can be handled by us normal guys, but we always had a dedicated Hybrid Tech with insulated tools to work on the battery packs. If something went wrong, procedure was to get a big plastic hook looking thing and use that to drag what we would assume to be his corpse out and call 911. Apparently, that battery pack is no joke.

 

[Kaido]

Ahah:

11.3 How long will the batteries last?

The manufacturer of the cells specifies that cells are good for 2000 discharge cycles (under the conditions used in a Hybrids Plus conversion). At a range of 60 miles, that works out to 120,000 miles.
Lithium Ion cells degrade over time, whether they are used or not. Unlike standard LiIon cells, Iron-phosphate cells have a much longer calendar life. At that point, the battery will have lost 10 % of its capacity, and will continue to operate, though the PHEV range will be reduced by 10 %.

So 120k miles...that's not bad. Starting last year I drive maybe 15k miles a year, so that would theoretically work out to 8 years of battery life.

 

[Dman877]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Dman877
My mother bought a 2004 Prius (first year for the second gen) and she loves it. In the summer in New England, it gets 50 mpg, in the winter it gets 40. However, it handles like an arcade racing game. There's no communication between driver and road. It's also slow as molasses.

They've had several recalls on it and once, it died on the highway because of a throttle sensor issue. Overall, it's pretty reliable though. I think they have 50k+ on it now and that was the only time it broke down.

Cargo capacity is good, it's also a light car in modern terms, like 2900 lbs. My dad's soon-to-arrive 135i is smaller and much heavier.

Even with snow tires, the Prius isn't great in the snow but getting places in the snow is more about how you drive than what you drive anyway.

If all you need is basic transportation, get a Prius. Frankly, it's a car that makes sense for about 70% of people driving in this country.

One thing I love about my '05 Saturn Ion with Traction Control is that I don't even have to think about it...sun, rain, snow, it doesn't matter. I never have to change tires or change my driving style...it does the work for me! It makes driving in snow about as easy as driving a normal car in rain - completely removes the problem.

The 2009 Prius is looking interesting...it may be the first factory plug-in vehicle on the market, according to the reports I've read. The Popular Mechanics 2009 Prius test drive article said that they suspect that Toyota will first release a plug-in NiMh plug-in and then switch it to a lithium ion later on:

http://www.popularmechanics.co.../new_cars/4227944.html

I'm looking at the Prius for a basic workmobile and grocery-getter, so it seems like a nice option, plus it's techie

The problem with traction control is that it only works if one of the two tires in front has traction. If you live on top of a hill that doesn't get plowed until the day after the storm, you might as well not even have traction control because all it does is prevent the car from sliding backwards.

As to your comments about accelerating around corners in snow, I find that hard to believe. I can't even do that well on dry pavement in a FWD vehicle. If it's just plain cornering you're talking about, that would be the stability assist kicking in, not traction control.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Dman877

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Dman877
My mother bought a 2004 Prius (first year for the second gen) and she loves it. In the summer in New England, it gets 50 mpg, in the winter it gets 40. However, it handles like an arcade racing game. There's no communication between driver and road. It's also slow as molasses.

They've had several recalls on it and once, it died on the highway because of a throttle sensor issue. Overall, it's pretty reliable though. I think they have 50k+ on it now and that was the only time it broke down.

Cargo capacity is good, it's also a light car in modern terms, like 2900 lbs. My dad's soon-to-arrive 135i is smaller and much heavier.

Even with snow tires, the Prius isn't great in the snow but getting places in the snow is more about how you drive than what you drive anyway.

If all you need is basic transportation, get a Prius. Frankly, it's a car that makes sense for about 70% of people driving in this country.

One thing I love about my '05 Saturn Ion with Traction Control is that I don't even have to think about it...sun, rain, snow, it doesn't matter. I never have to change tires or change my driving style...it does the work for me! It makes driving in snow about as easy as driving a normal car in rain - completely removes the problem.

The 2009 Prius is looking interesting...it may be the first factory plug-in vehicle on the market, according to the reports I've read. The Popular Mechanics 2009 Prius test drive article said that they suspect that Toyota will first release a plug-in NiMh plug-in and then switch it to a lithium ion later on:

http://www.popularmechanics.co.../new_cars/4227944.html

I'm looking at the Prius for a basic workmobile and grocery-getter, so it seems like a nice option, plus it's techie

The problem with traction control is that it only works if one of the two tires in front has traction. If you live on top of a hill that doesn't get plowed until the day after the storm, you might as well not even have traction control because all it does is prevent the car from sliding backwards.

As to your comments about accelerating around corners in snow, I find that hard to believe. I can't even do that well on dry pavement in a FWD vehicle. If it's just plain cornering you're talking about, that would be the stability assist kicking in, not traction control.

Nope, it's the Traction Control. If I press the Traction Control button off, then I slide out around snowy corners. What do you mean, you can't hold the gas going around corners on dry pavement? That doesn't make any sense. All it seems to do on mine is cut power to the wheels as needed to so I don't slide around.

 

[JeepinEd]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: JeepinEd
They got suckered by the dealer.
When I purchased my 1st Gen Prius, the dealer told me I had to take it in for every type of service because they needed special tools. He mentioned the mechanic needs to wear special insulated clothing and had to use insulated tools. That is utter bull$h!t.

I have 230K miles on it now. I've done all the services myself, using regular tools. It's just a car, with an additional MAINTENANCE FREE hybrid system. The only time you would need to take it to a dealer is if the actual Hybrid electrical system needed service.

I used to work at a Ford Dealership and we dealt with quite a few Escape Hybrids. Normal maintenance can be handled by us normal guys, but we always had a dedicated Hybrid Tech with insulated tools to work on the battery packs. If something went wrong, procedure was to get a big plastic hook looking thing and use that to drag what we would assume to be his corpse out and call 911. Apparently, that battery pack is no joke.

:laugh:
Yeah, the battery pack is no joke. That's why it's the only thing I'll use the dealer for.
Oil changes, however...

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: kyubi
indeed. instead of a prius get a honda crx. better car and gets 50mpg non hybrid

So a 2 seater that hasn't been made for over 10 years? Geo metro and the Honda Civic hatchback (LX I think) fall into that same era and category.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: SearchMaster

Originally posted by: kyubi
exactly shows what you can do when there's not a lot of junk in the trunk so to speak

You can blame the govt for that. The CRX HF weighed <1800 pounds - there's virtually no way you could fit all of today's required safety equipment in a package that small.

The Insight is 1800 lbs and scores 4 stars in all crash tests. They did it by using aluminum instead of steel which raises manufacturing costs.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Ahah:

11.3 How long will the batteries last?

The manufacturer of the cells specifies that cells are good for 2000 discharge cycles (under the conditions used in a Hybrids Plus conversion). At a range of 60 miles, that works out to 120,000 miles.
Lithium Ion cells degrade over time, whether they are used or not. Unlike standard LiIon cells, Iron-phosphate cells have a much longer calendar life. At that point, the battery will have lost 10 % of its capacity, and will continue to operate, though the PHEV range will be reduced by 10 %.

So 120k miles...that's not bad. Starting last year I drive maybe 15k miles a year, so that would theoretically work out to 8 years of battery life.

And those numbers can be up to 10 times higher if the battery pack isn't cycled from empty to full. Since it's release the Insights were reprogrammed to use less of the battery pack range (lower usable Ah) in favor of more cycles. This was done through a battery control module recall. They will consider something like 15% to be empty and 85% to be full. My pack is now 8 years old and still running strong. In a worse case situation I can rebuild the the pack using a 2nd used battery, just a matter of testing the subpacks with a smart charger / discharger and replacing the weak ones.

 

[Uhtrinity]

dp

 

[Dman877]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Dman877

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Dman877
My mother bought a 2004 Prius (first year for the second gen) and she loves it. In the summer in New England, it gets 50 mpg, in the winter it gets 40. However, it handles like an arcade racing game. There's no communication between driver and road. It's also slow as molasses.

They've had several recalls on it and once, it died on the highway because of a throttle sensor issue. Overall, it's pretty reliable though. I think they have 50k+ on it now and that was the only time it broke down.

Cargo capacity is good, it's also a light car in modern terms, like 2900 lbs. My dad's soon-to-arrive 135i is smaller and much heavier.

Even with snow tires, the Prius isn't great in the snow but getting places in the snow is more about how you drive than what you drive anyway.

If all you need is basic transportation, get a Prius. Frankly, it's a car that makes sense for about 70% of people driving in this country.

One thing I love about my '05 Saturn Ion with Traction Control is that I don't even have to think about it...sun, rain, snow, it doesn't matter. I never have to change tires or change my driving style...it does the work for me! It makes driving in snow about as easy as driving a normal car in rain - completely removes the problem.

The 2009 Prius is looking interesting...it may be the first factory plug-in vehicle on the market, according to the reports I've read. The Popular Mechanics 2009 Prius test drive article said that they suspect that Toyota will first release a plug-in NiMh plug-in and then switch it to a lithium ion later on:

http://www.popularmechanics.co.../new_cars/4227944.html

I'm looking at the Prius for a basic workmobile and grocery-getter, so it seems like a nice option, plus it's techie

The problem with traction control is that it only works if one of the two tires in front has traction. If you live on top of a hill that doesn't get plowed until the day after the storm, you might as well not even have traction control because all it does is prevent the car from sliding backwards.

As to your comments about accelerating around corners in snow, I find that hard to believe. I can't even do that well on dry pavement in a FWD vehicle. If it's just plain cornering you're talking about, that would be the stability assist kicking in, not traction control.

Nope, it's the Traction Control. If I press the Traction Control button off, then I slide out around snowy corners. What do you mean, you can't hold the gas going around corners on dry pavement? That doesn't make any sense. All it seems to do on mine is cut power to the wheels as needed to so I don't slide around.

The stability assist might be linked to the traction control button too (it is in my car).

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Dman877

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Dman877

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Dman877
My mother bought a 2004 Prius (first year for the second gen) and she loves it. In the summer in New England, it gets 50 mpg, in the winter it gets 40. However, it handles like an arcade racing game. There's no communication between driver and road. It's also slow as molasses.

They've had several recalls on it and once, it died on the highway because of a throttle sensor issue. Overall, it's pretty reliable though. I think they have 50k+ on it now and that was the only time it broke down.

Cargo capacity is good, it's also a light car in modern terms, like 2900 lbs. My dad's soon-to-arrive 135i is smaller and much heavier.

Even with snow tires, the Prius isn't great in the snow but getting places in the snow is more about how you drive than what you drive anyway.

If all you need is basic transportation, get a Prius. Frankly, it's a car that makes sense for about 70% of people driving in this country.

One thing I love about my '05 Saturn Ion with Traction Control is that I don't even have to think about it...sun, rain, snow, it doesn't matter. I never have to change tires or change my driving style...it does the work for me! It makes driving in snow about as easy as driving a normal car in rain - completely removes the problem.

The 2009 Prius is looking interesting...it may be the first factory plug-in vehicle on the market, according to the reports I've read. The Popular Mechanics 2009 Prius test drive article said that they suspect that Toyota will first release a plug-in NiMh plug-in and then switch it to a lithium ion later on:

http://www.popularmechanics.co.../new_cars/4227944.html

I'm looking at the Prius for a basic workmobile and grocery-getter, so it seems like a nice option, plus it's techie

The problem with traction control is that it only works if one of the two tires in front has traction. If you live on top of a hill that doesn't get plowed until the day after the storm, you might as well not even have traction control because all it does is prevent the car from sliding backwards.

As to your comments about accelerating around corners in snow, I find that hard to believe. I can't even do that well on dry pavement in a FWD vehicle. If it's just plain cornering you're talking about, that would be the stability assist kicking in, not traction control.

Nope, it's the Traction Control. If I press the Traction Control button off, then I slide out around snowy corners. What do you mean, you can't hold the gas going around corners on dry pavement? That doesn't make any sense. All it seems to do on mine is cut power to the wheels as needed to so I don't slide around.

The stability assist might be linked to the traction control button too (it is in my car).

Whatever it is, it works great

I'll have to test drive a Prius sometime to decide though...maybe I'll wait for the next big snowstorm :evil:

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Ahah:

11.3 How long will the batteries last?

The manufacturer of the cells specifies that cells are good for 2000 discharge cycles (under the conditions used in a Hybrids Plus conversion). At a range of 60 miles, that works out to 120,000 miles.
Lithium Ion cells degrade over time, whether they are used or not. Unlike standard LiIon cells, Iron-phosphate cells have a much longer calendar life. At that point, the battery will have lost 10 % of its capacity, and will continue to operate, though the PHEV range will be reduced by 10 %.

So 120k miles...that's not bad. Starting last year I drive maybe 15k miles a year, so that would theoretically work out to 8 years of battery life.

The battery pack warranty in California (and several other states that adopt CA's emission laws) is ten years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Replacement battery pack runs about 3k, installed.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: thecritic

Originally posted by: Kaido
Ahah:

11.3 How long will the batteries last?

The manufacturer of the cells specifies that cells are good for 2000 discharge cycles (under the conditions used in a Hybrids Plus conversion). At a range of 60 miles, that works out to 120,000 miles.
Lithium Ion cells degrade over time, whether they are used or not. Unlike standard LiIon cells, Iron-phosphate cells have a much longer calendar life. At that point, the battery will have lost 10 % of its capacity, and will continue to operate, though the PHEV range will be reduced by 10 %.

So 120k miles...that's not bad. Starting last year I drive maybe 15k miles a year, so that would theoretically work out to 8 years of battery life.

The battery pack warranty in California (and several other states that adopt CA's emission laws) is ten years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Replacement battery pack runs about 3k, installed.

Oh, that information I posted was from the aftermarket modification, not the stock Prius battery.