Princeton neuroscientist: memory quirks allow us to believe false statements

stateofbeasley

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Jan 26, 2004
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I came across a radio segment on NPR that I think basically makes arguments on P&N moot. No amount of postings or propaganda from the Left or the Right is likely to change anyone's mind on the issues.

NPR Talk of the Nation link

Interview from last month with Princeton neuroscientist Sam Wang starts around 7:30 in the segment. His talk is in the context of the "birther" movement, and why people believe things even when they are proven not to be true.

Essentially there are several quirks of memory that allow false beliefs.

(1) Source Amnesia - human memory remembers things, but doesn't really take context into account. If someone hears a false statement, they may not remember where they heard it or who they heard it from. They may not question the statement or belief.

(2) Biased Assimilation - People tend to accept evidence that fits with prior belief, and filter out facts that do not fit with prior belief.

(3) Emotional Response - Things that elicit strong emotions are more strongly recorded in memory. The woman shouting about "taking back America" probably had a strong emotional reaction to seeing Obama elected President.

There are some techniques for blunting the effect of false information: State the facts concisely, but do not repeat the falsehood. Use images to dispel emotional response. Question the source of rumors.

This is pretty depressing actually.

I have friends who believe that Latinos are taking over the country, and who insist that will will all be "forced" to speak and write Spanish in the near future because of all the immigrants. Nothing I ever say to them can convince them otherwise. Even the very obvious Americanization of the children of these immigrants does not convince them.
 

themusgrat

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Nov 2, 2005
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Right. People's minds never change because they can't get over the awesomeness that is themselves...... Sounds like alot of people he'd know at Princeton. In reality, alot of people have open enough minds that they can be swayed if you present logic and evidence. P&N may be an exception though, I'll agree.
 

Engineer

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: themusgrat
Right. People's minds never change because they can't get over the awesomeness that is themselves...... Sounds like alot of people he'd know at Princeton. In reality, alot of people have open enough minds that they can be swayed if you present logic and evidence. P&N may be an exception though, I'll agree.

I thought that moonbeam had changed his/her avatar for a moment! :p

 

Hayabusa Rider

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Originally posted by: themusgrat
Right. People's minds never change because they can't get over the awesomeness that is themselves...... Sounds like alot of people he'd know at Princeton. In reality, alot of people have open enough minds that they can be swayed if you present logic and evidence. P&N may be an exception though, I'll agree.

I think you are posting a good example of what he's talking about.

He never said "People's minds never change..." It has been long understood that there is an inherent bias, colored glasses if you will, that people view the world through. In some the tint is a lot stronger. That's why the "birthers" are as they are. It's so obvious to them that they see things as they believe they ought to be.

The examples he used were minority ones, like "birthers", those who believe we never walked on the moon and the like. That would invalidate your "in reality a lot of people..." point countering his statement that he never made. He never made the conjecture you allude to.

My suspicion is that the "Princeton" remark you made causes you to have an automatic bias against academicians, particularly those of the Ivy League or equivalent.

You dismissed his points entirely, substituting what he said with what you believe he must have meant, since you have that awesomeness. :p

I'm not picking on you, but just showing that this kind of thing creeps up on people all the time. It takes some considerable effort at times to disengage the personal from the actual. That's human nature.

My father had a tongue in cheek saying that sums it up nicely "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is already made up"
 

Hayabusa Rider

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Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Lol... Wang (you'll never change the way I react to that word Dr. Wang!)

I once took a pic of a "Wang's Meat Market"

I have to dig that one up :D
 

monovillage

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Jul 3, 2008
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In personal experience i've found that the people that have a bumper sticker that says "a mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open" mean that if you disagree with them, your mind is closed. If you agree with them, your mind is open. What you believe or why you believe it isn't important, what is important to them is that they are enlightened, self righteous and so positive that they are right that no other opinion matters.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: monovillage
In personal experience i've found that the people that have a bumper sticker that says "a mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open" mean that if you disagree with them, your mind is closed. If you agree with them, your mind is open. What you believe or why you believe it isn't important, what is important to them is that they are enlightened, self righteous and so positive that they are right that no other opinion matters.

I suspect you hate those who challenge your pre-conceptions.
 

stateofbeasley

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Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: monovillage
In personal experience i've found that the people that have a bumper sticker that says "a mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open" mean that if you disagree with them, your mind is closed. If you agree with them, your mind is open. What you believe or why you believe it isn't important, what is important to them is that they are enlightened, self righteous and so positive that they are right that no other opinion matters.

I suspect you hate those who challenge your pre-conceptions.

LOL.

These memory quirks really can turn into mindbenders :confused:

I can relate somewhat to monovillage's perspective. I've had more than one person try to sell me on something called the "Law of Attraction" which seems to entail asking the universe for something, which it will supposedly provide. I am kind of averse to things that are not evidence based, so I asked for proof that this works but nobody was able to present any facts or logical explanation of how this really worked. So am I really objective on this, or am I looking at this from a biased perspective.... ???
 

sandorski

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Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: stateofbeasley
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: monovillage
In personal experience i've found that the people that have a bumper sticker that says "a mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open" mean that if you disagree with them, your mind is closed. If you agree with them, your mind is open. What you believe or why you believe it isn't important, what is important to them is that they are enlightened, self righteous and so positive that they are right that no other opinion matters.

I suspect you hate those who challenge your pre-conceptions.

LOL.

These memory quirks really can turn into mindbenders :confused:

I can relate somewhat to monovillage's perspective. I've had more than one person try to sell me on something called the "Law of Attraction" which seems to entail asking the universe for something, which it will supposedly provide. I am kind of averse to things that are not evidence based, so I asked for proof that this works but nobody was able to present any facts or logical explanation of how this really worked. So am I really objective on this, or am I looking at this from a biased perspective.... ???

Well, perhaps I read Mono's post wrong, depends on whom he/she has had experience with. "Open Mind" is a term that can be used universally, by Religious/Spiritual peoples with unprovable Belief or more Reasoned people trying to find Truth through Science and Reason. I kind of assumed Mono was speaking of the latter, but see now I could have been incorrect on that assumption.

 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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Originally posted by: monovillage
In personal experience i've found that the people that have a bumper sticker that says "a mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open" mean that if you disagree with them, your mind is closed. If you agree with them, your mind is open. What you believe or why you believe it isn't important, what is important to them is that they are enlightened, self righteous and so positive that they are right that no other opinion matters.

Nobody is going to convince you otherwise, either.
 

Moonbeam

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Nov 24, 1999
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Soem people can change minds, some can't.

Water boarding works.

I would like to run an experiment where I offer to pay people to change their opinion and ask they how much it woulds cost to permanently reverse theirs given that if they are caught reversing it again they would have to return the payment.
 

Moonbeam

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The one opinion everybody has that is unconsciously rooted is that they are worthless and the inculcation of that feeling is deeply buried.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The one opinion everybody has that is unconsciously rooted is that they are worthless and the inculcation of that feeling is deeply buried.

You feel this way because you have a deeply buried feeling of worthlessness and when you look at everyone it is as if you are looking into a mirror. You see worthlessness in me because it's in you.

:D
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I love that, and gotta remember that, don't accuse them of being a liar, just tell them they suffer from "memory quirks."

Yup, explains it all, and its a common human disease with no known cure.

Now what we need is a diagnostic tool to identify those that are afflicted with memory quirks, something like a cootie catcher with a meter
that can put a reliable and quantifiable number on the degree of affliction.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
I love that, and gotta remember that, don't accuse them of being a liar, just tell them they suffer from "memory quirks."

Yup, explains it all, and its a common human disease with no known cure.

Now what we need is a diagnostic tool to identify those that are afflicted with memory quirks, something like a cootie catcher with a meter
that can put a reliable and quantifiable number on the degree of affliction.

Can we please call the degrees "hoo-ha giggies"?
 

monovillage

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Jul 3, 2008
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: monovillage
In personal experience i've found that the people that have a bumper sticker that says "a mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open" mean that if you disagree with them, your mind is closed. If you agree with them, your mind is open. What you believe or why you believe it isn't important, what is important to them is that they are enlightened, self righteous and so positive that they are right that no other opinion matters.

I suspect you hate those who challenge your pre-conceptions.

Not at all, i really enjoy discussing/arguing politics, i value other peoples opinions and i'm not so locked into self righteousness that i will never ever change my mind. I'm of the opinion that the Intel i7 920 is going to outperform the PhenomII x4 975 in video encoding, but until the benchmarks are out, it's just an opinion. I just wish there were a way to benchmark sourced amnesia, biased assimilation and emotional response.
 

babylon5

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Dec 11, 2000
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Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The one opinion everybody has that is unconsciously rooted is that they are worthless and the inculcation of that feeling is deeply buried.

You feel this way because you have a deeply buried feeling of worthlessness and when you look at everyone it is as if you are looking into a mirror. You see worthlessness in me because it's in you.

:D

:thumbsup:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Originally posted by: babylon5
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The one opinion everybody has that is unconsciously rooted is that they are worthless and the inculcation of that feeling is deeply buried.

You feel this way because you have a deeply buried feeling of worthlessness and when you look at everyone it is as if you are looking into a mirror. You see worthlessness in me because it's in you.

:D

:thumbsup:

Nope, somebody told me and asked me to look. It took enormous effort and time even to partially confirm it. You have no idea how hard it is to know what you feel. No idea at all.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: babylon5
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The one opinion everybody has that is unconsciously rooted is that they are worthless and the inculcation of that feeling is deeply buried.

You feel this way because you have a deeply buried feeling of worthlessness and when you look at everyone it is as if you are looking into a mirror. You see worthlessness in me because it's in you.

:D

:thumbsup:

Nope, somebody told me and asked me to look. It took enormous effort and time even to partially confirm it. You have no idea how hard it is to know what you feel. No idea at all.

How can we trust your opinion when your opinion is biased by your own self-hate?