Prince George’s Co. school lets Muslim students out of class to pray

[monovillage]

I'm sorry monovillage, i was wrong about the ruling.

FTFY, That's OK, whiskeyboy, when you read the ruling you could see that it was a different case then the OP.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Hey drunkard, did you read what you keep linking?


Totally different then allowing the students to use school facilities for their prayers.

from the original story and what i've been discussing this whole time.


Knock off the whiskey next time.

The decision in v. Mergens addresses the school property issue. The Equal Access Act require equal access to school facilities for any and all extra-curricular groups. Their decision, and the acts non-instruction time clause apply here as non-instruction time included an approved activity period, which this is.

 

[Whiskey16]

Thank you, MomentsofSanity.

monovillage, for private religious activity/observance there is no need to leave government funded school property. To require that is a violation of law and of an already set US Supreme Court precedent:

...the refusal to permit the proposed club to meet at Westside violated the Equal Access Act, which prohibits public secondary schools that receive federal assistance and that maintain a "limited open forum" from denying "equal access" to students who wish to meet within the forum on the basis of the "religious, political, philosophical, or other content" of the speech at such meetings. In reversing the District Court's entry of judgment for petitioners, the Court of Appeals held that the Act applied to forbid discrimination against respondents' proposed club on the basis of its religious content, and that the Act did not violate the Establishment Clause.

Held: The judgment is affirmed.

monovillage, you have nothing to support you. We have directly cited existing US Supreme Court rulings that already inviolate this threads basis that students may not engage in religious activity during their school hours (Zorach v. Clauson) and must leave the government funded property to do so (Board of Education of Westside Community Schools v. Mergens By and Through Mergens).

 

[monovillage]

The decision in v. Mergens addresses the school property issue. The Equal Access Act require equal access to school facilities for any and all extra-curricular groups. Their decision, and the acts non-instruction time clause apply here as non-instruction time included an approved activity period, which this is.

So you're saying that Zorach v. Clauson (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0343_0306_ZS.html) establishes students being able to leave class for religious instruction and that Westsidecv. Mergens (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0496_0226_ZS.html) establishes using public school facilities for religious instruction has been upheld.

That makes more sense, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Darwin333]

Which I would have, and the Court would have no problem with at all, but if they use school facilities then it's a different matter.,

Again, what if a Christian says a prayer by himself before he eats his lunch? Should that student be disciplined? What if they decide to read the bible instead of playing at recess? What about wearing religious jewelry?

 

[Darwin333]

You might want to check this out, I have been saying all along that they are against Christians and here is the proof

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_prayer

The very first sentence in the link you posted:

"School prayer in its common usage refers to state-sanctioned and/or mandatory prayer by students in public schools."

Now you consider that an attack on Christians yet here you are arguing that non state-sanctioned and non-mandatory prayer shouldn't be allowed????

I can't wait to see your head explode when they allow Muslims to celibate their religious holidays. And after that, OMFG, you will be forced to live under Sharia Law!

 

[monovillage]

Again, what if a Christian says a prayer by himself before he eats his lunch? Should that student be disciplined? What if they decide to read the bible instead of playing at recess? What about wearing religious jewelry?

From the ruling we've seen if a single person says grace before a meal it's perfectly acceptable, however is 5 kids sit at a table and one recites grace for the group, then that is considered illegal. I'm not sure about recess, it may be dependent on how many kids participate and in regards to religious jewelry i'm not sure.

I do remember when I was in school (60's)a kid brought a bible to school and was walking around with it, when a teacher told them to put it in their locker the guy refused and was kicked out of school for the day. After some school board intervention and discussions with lawyers and counsel they allowed students to carry bibles. It didn't affect me, but I recall it.

 

[Darwin333]

From the ruling we've seen if a single person says grace before a meal it's perfectly acceptable, however is 5 kids sit at a table and one recites grace for the group, then that is considered illegal. I'm not sure about recess, it may be dependent on how many kids participate and in regards to religious jewelry i'm not sure.

Could you please point me to the ruling that says 5 kids voluntarily saying grace before lunch is illegal? If that is in fact the case, even as an atheist, I would be completely against that. The only issue that I am concerned with is that:

1. No public funds be used.
2. No coercion whatsoever
3. No forced participation (I.E. a teacher leading the class in prayer)

Other than that, if 5 kids decide on their own to have a prayer group at lunch time I have absolutely no issue with that.

I do remember when I was in school (60's)a kid brought a bible to school and was walking around with it, when a teacher told them to put it in their locker the guy refused and was kicked out of school for the day. After some school board intervention and discussions with lawyers and counsel they allowed students to carry bibles. It didn't affect me, but I recall it.

I think the school was way out of line. As I said, I am an atheist but I have no interest whatsoever in controlling what books kids bring to school or what kids voluntarily do that has no affect on other students including (but not limited to) praying at school. I think my view is a perfectly reasonable compromise between EVERYONES rights.

 

[Incorruptible]

The very first sentence in the link you posted:

"School prayer in its common usage refers to state-sanctioned and/or mandatory prayer by students in public schools."

Now you consider that an attack on Christians yet here you are arguing that non state-sanctioned and non-mandatory prayer shouldn't be allowed????

I can't wait to see your head explode when they allow Muslims to celibate their religious holidays. And after that, OMFG, you will be forced to live under Sharia Law!

Your against the state sanctioned/mandatory prayer but what if radical Muslims demand that for the schools though? Would you still be against it?

They should not give them days off for their holidays, Why come to the country if you dont want to follow our customs and traditions?

 

[CrackRabbit]

Your against the state sanctioned/mandatory prayer but what if radical Muslims demand that for the schools though? Would you still be against it?

They should not give them days off for their holidays, Why come to the country if you dont want to follow our customs and traditions?

Warning! EXTREME BULLSHIT DETECTED!

 

[Capt Caveman]

Your against the state sanctioned/mandatory prayer but what if radical Muslims demand that for the schools though? Would you still be against it?

They should not give them days off for their holidays, Why come to the country if you dont want to follow our customs and traditions?

Radical? STFU. Oh wait, anything Muslim to you is radical. Troll.

 

[Darwin333]

Your against the state sanctioned/mandatory prayer but what if radical Muslims demand that for the schools though? Would you still be against it?

I absolutely 100% would be against it and would fight to ensure that it was not implemented in anyway that I possible could.

They should not give them days off for their holidays, Why come to the country if you dont want to follow our customs and traditions?

You only answered half the question, do you think that Christian holidays should be stricken from all .gov calenders or do you think that your religion should have exactly what you think you are arguing against, special treatment?

If you do believe in the tyranny of the majority, I ask again if Muslims eventually gain the majority you would have no problem with the reversal of Islam and Christianity in the US, right?

 

[thraashman]

Your against the state sanctioned/mandatory prayer but what if radical Muslims demand that for the schools though? Would you still be against it?

They should not give them days off for their holidays, Why come to the country if you dont want to follow our customs and traditions?

You know what American customs and traditions used to include? Things like hating the Irish, slavery, working the Chinese to death to build our railroads, treating women as if they aren't humans, working 10 year old children 12 hours a day in factories, etc. Traditions and customs change and they aren't always good things to begin with.

 

[Ausm]

Great but why stop there? Let's do away with all religious holidays. Make it illegal for any display of religion/religious holiday on public owned lands or government buildings (federal/state/locality). The only place that religious displays would be allowed in privately owned land/property and churches, mosques, or synagogues.

I like that idea!

 

[piasabird]

Just dont let the muslims pray as a group on school property or set aside a room or hall for them to go to pray in.

 

[piasabird]

People still have freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Let the religious people who go to church or practice their religion off for religious holidays and make all the athiests come to work. That is fine with me. What we really have at work places is we have agreed to a certain number of days off or holidays every year and everyone that works gets those days off. It is a compromise at best. Since we have so many religoius holidays, a few of them are days off. Many religious holidays are not really observed like Easter and St Patrick's Day. There are still a few left like good friday. Most holidays are government holidays like Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Independence day, Presidents day. In fact most companies will not even let people off for MLK and Veterans day. So Maybe we need more like 15 days off a year instead of 10.

So as an athiest how many religious holidays do you get off?

So what are you complaining about a day off?

Can we get a day off like tree hugger day?

How about hug a wiccan day?

What would an athiest celebrate anyway? I think athiests just like being angry at everyone else. Are you all a bunch sour pusses?

 

[Incorruptible]

I absolutely 100% would be against it and would fight to ensure that it was not implemented in anyway that I possible could.



You only answered half the question, do you think that Christian holidays should be stricken from all .gov calenders or do you think that your religion should have exactly what you think you are arguing against, special treatment?

If you do believe in the tyranny of the majority, I ask again if Muslims eventually gain the majority you would have no problem with the reversal of Islam and Christianity in the US, right?

Glad we agree on the first point but what happens when these students want more special privileges? Do you still support them? In Europe there were some schools who dont teach the Holocaust

 

[Darwin333]

Glad we agree on the first point but what happens when these students want more special privileges? Do you still support them? In Europe there were some schools who dont teach the Holocaust

Of course I wouldn't support them. I support the Constitution and what is right and that support doesn't waiver because I happen to not agree with what someone else believes.

And if a private school doesn't want to teach about the holocaust that is their private business. However, that shit won't fly in public schools.

PS: We ain't Europe.

 

[Darwin333]

People still have freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Let the religious people who go to church or practice their religion off for religious holidays and make all the athiests come to work. That is fine with me. What we really have at work places is we have agreed to a certain number of days off or holidays every year and everyone that works gets those days off. It is a compromise at best. Since we have so many religoius holidays, a few of them are days off. Many religious holidays are not really observed like Easter and St Patrick's Day. There are still a few left like good friday. Most holidays are government holidays like Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Independence day, Presidents day. In fact most companies will not even let people off for MLK and Veterans day. So Maybe we need more like 15 days off a year instead of 10.

So as an athiest how many religious holidays do you get off?

So what are you complaining about a day off?

Can we get a day off like tree hugger day?

How about hug a wiccan day?

What would an athiest celebrate anyway? I think athiests just like being angry at everyone else. Are you all a bunch sour pusses?

Umm, I'm an atheist and I have spent this thread arguing as to why the muslims SHOULD be allowed to pray at school so long as no public resources or funds are used and no one is compelled to be involved.

 

[Pens1566]

Glad we agree on the first point but what happens when these students want more special privileges? Do you still support them? In Europe there were some schools who dont teach the Holocaust

The bolded above is a hint as to why your post is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Incorruptible]

The bolded above is a hint as to why your post is beyond ridiculous.

Its happening in Europe with the radicals taking over and its going to happen here, we need to learn from their mistakes but it doesn't look like too many people care. Don't come crying to me when they gain more power later on