President's speech on ISIL- Full text here. Analysis welcome!

[Hayabusa Rider]

My fellow Americans, tonight I want to speak to you about what the United States will do with our friends and allies to degrade and ultimately destroy the terrorist group known as ISIL.

As Commander-in-Chief, my highest priority is the security of the American people. Over the last several years, we have consistently taken the fight to terrorists who threaten our country. We took out Osama bin Laden and much of al Qaeda’s leadership in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We’ve targeted al Qaeda’s affiliate in Yemen, and recently eliminated the top commander of its affiliate in Somalia. We’ve done so while bringing more than 140,000 American troops home from Iraq, and drawing down our forces in Afghanistan, where our combat mission will end later this year. Thanks to our military and counterterrorism professionals, America is safer.

Still, we continue to face a terrorist threat. We can’t erase every trace of evil from the world, and small groups of killers have the capacity to do great harm. That was the case before 9/11, and that remains true today. And that’s why we must remain vigilant as threats emerge. At this moment, the greatest threats come from the Middle East and North Africa, where radical groups exploit grievances for their own gain. And one of those groups is ISIL -- which calls itself the “Islamic State.”

Now let’s make two things clear: ISIL is not “Islamic.” No religion condones the killing of innocents. And the vast majority of ISIL’s victims have been Muslim. And ISIL is certainly not a state. It was formerly al Qaeda’s affiliate in Iraq, and has taken advantage of sectarian strife and Syria’s civil war to gain territory on both sides of the Iraq-Syrian border. It is recognized by no government, nor by the people it subjugates. ISIL is a terrorist organization, pure and simple. And it has no vision other than the slaughter of all who stand in its way.

In a region that has known so much bloodshed, these terrorists are unique in their brutality. They execute captured prisoners. They kill children. They enslave, rape, and force women into marriage. They threatened a religious minority with genocide. And in acts of barbarism, they took the lives of two American journalists -- Jim Foley and Steven Sotloff.

So ISIL poses a threat to the people of Iraq and Syria, and the broader Middle East -- including American citizens, personnel and facilities. If left unchecked, these terrorists could pose a growing threat beyond that region, including to the United States. While we have not yet detected specific plotting against our homeland, ISIL leaders have threatened America and our allies. Our Intelligence Community believes that thousands of foreigners -– including Europeans and some Americans –- have joined them in Syria and Iraq. Trained and battle-hardened, these fighters could try to return to their home countries and carry out deadly attacks.

I know many Americans are concerned about these threats. Tonight, I want you to know that the United States of America is meeting them with strength and resolve. Last month, I ordered our military to take targeted action against ISIL to stop its advances. Since then, we’ve conducted more than 150 successful airstrikes in Iraq. These strikes have protected American personnel and facilities, killed ISIL fighters, destroyed weapons, and given space for Iraqi and Kurdish forces to reclaim key territory. These strikes have also helped save the lives of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

But this is not our fight alone. American power can make a decisive difference, but we cannot do for Iraqis what they must do for themselves, nor can we take the place of Arab partners in securing their region. And that’s why I’ve insisted that additional U.S. action depended upon Iraqis forming an inclusive government, which they have now done in recent days. So tonight, with a new Iraqi government in place, and following consultations with allies abroad and Congress at home, I can announce that America will lead a broad coalition to roll back this terrorist threat.

Our objective is clear: We will degrade, and ultimately destroy, ISIL through a comprehensive and sustained counterterrorism strategy.

First, we will conduct a systematic campaign of airstrikes against these terrorists. Working with the Iraqi government, we will expand our efforts beyond protecting our own people and humanitarian missions, so that we’re hitting ISIL targets as Iraqi forces go on offense. Moreover, I have made it clear that we will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria, as well as Iraq. This is a core principle of my presidency: If you threaten America, you will find no safe haven.

Second, we will increase our support to forces fighting these terrorists on the ground. In June, I deployed several hundred American servicemembers to Iraq to assess how we can best support Iraqi security forces. Now that those teams have completed their work –- and Iraq has formed a government –- we will send an additional 475 servicemembers to Iraq. As I have said before, these American forces will not have a combat mission –- we will not get dragged into another ground war in Iraq. But they are needed to support Iraqi and Kurdish forces with training, intelligence and equipment. We’ll also support Iraq’s efforts to stand up National Guard Units to help Sunni communities secure their own freedom from ISIL’s control.

Across the border, in Syria, we have ramped up our military assistance to the Syrian opposition. Tonight, I call on Congress again to give us additional authorities and resources to train and equip these fighters. In the fight against ISIL, we cannot rely on an Assad regime that terrorizes its own people -- a regime that will never regain the legitimacy it has lost. Instead, we must strengthen the opposition as the best counterweight to extremists like ISIL, while pursuing the political solution necessary to solve Syria’s crisis once and for all.

Third, we will continue to draw on our substantial counterterrorism capabilities to prevent ISIL attacks. Working with our partners, we will redouble our efforts to cut off its funding; improve our intelligence; strengthen our defenses; counter its warped ideology; and stem the flow of foreign fighters into and out of the Middle East. And in two weeks, I will chair a meeting of the U.N. Security Council to further mobilize the international community around this effort.

Fourth, we will continue to provide humanitarian assistance to innocent civilians who have been displaced by this terrorist organization. This includes Sunni and Shia Muslims who are at grave risk, as well as tens of thousands of Christians and other religious minorities. We cannot allow these communities to be driven from their ancient homelands.

So this is our strategy. And in each of these four parts of our strategy, America will be joined by a broad coalition of partners. Already, allies are flying planes with us over Iraq; sending arms and assistance to Iraqi security forces and the Syrian opposition; sharing intelligence; and providing billions of dollars in humanitarian aid. Secretary Kerry was in Iraq today meeting with the new government and supporting their efforts to promote unity. And in the coming days he will travel across the Middle East and Europe to enlist more partners in this fight, especially Arab nations who can help mobilize Sunni communities in Iraq and Syria, to drive these terrorists from their lands. This is American leadership at its best: We stand with people who fight for their own freedom, and we rally other nations on behalf of our common security and common humanity.

My administration has also secured bipartisan support for this approach here at home. I have the authority to address the threat from ISIL, but I believe we are strongest as a nation when the President and Congress work together. So I welcome congressional support for this effort in order to show the world that Americans are united in confronting this danger.

Now, it will take time to eradicate a cancer like ISIL. And any time we take military action, there are risks involved –- especially to the servicemen and women who carry out these missions. But I want the American people to understand how this effort will be different from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will not involve American combat troops fighting on foreign soil. This counterterrorism campaign will be waged through a steady, relentless effort to take out ISIL wherever they exist, using our air power and our support for partner forces on the ground. This strategy of taking out terrorists who threaten us, while supporting partners on the front lines, is one that we have successfully pursued in Yemen and Somalia for years. And it is consistent with the approach I outlined earlier this year: to use force against anyone who threatens America’s core interests, but to mobilize partners wherever possible to address broader challenges to international order.

My fellow Americans, we live in a time of great change. Tomorrow marks 13 years since our country was attacked. Next week marks six years since our economy suffered its worst setback since the Great Depression. Yet despite these shocks, through the pain we have felt and the grueling work required to bounce back, America is better positioned today to seize the future than any other nation on Earth.

Our technology companies and universities are unmatched. Our manufacturing and auto industries are thriving. Energy independence is closer than it’s been in decades. For all the work that remains, our businesses are in the longest uninterrupted stretch of job creation in our history. Despite all the divisions and discord within our democracy, I see the grit and determination and common goodness of the American people every single day –- and that makes me more confident than ever about our country’s future.

Abroad, American leadership is the one constant in an uncertain world. It is America that has the capacity and the will to mobilize the world against terrorists. It is America that has rallied the world against Russian aggression, and in support of the Ukrainian peoples’ right to determine their own destiny. It is America –- our scientists, our doctors, our know-how –- that can help contain and cure the outbreak of Ebola. It is America that helped remove and destroy Syria’s declared chemical weapons so that they can’t pose a threat to the Syrian people or the world again. And it is America that is helping Muslim communities around the world not just in the fight against terrorism, but in the fight for opportunity, and tolerance, and a more hopeful future.

America, our endless blessings bestow an enduring burden. But as Americans, we welcome our responsibility to lead. From Europe to Asia, from the far reaches of Africa to war-torn capitals of the Middle East, we stand for freedom, for justice, for dignity. These are values that have guided our nation since its founding.

Tonight, I ask for your support in carrying that leadership forward. I do so as a Commander-in-Chief who could not be prouder of our men and women in uniform –- pilots who bravely fly in the face of danger above the Middle East, and servicemembers who support our partners on the ground.

When we helped prevent the massacre of civilians trapped on a distant mountain, here’s what one of them said: “We owe our American friends our lives. Our children will always remember that there was someone who felt our struggle and made a long journey to protect innocent people.”

That is the difference we make in the world. And our own safety, our own security, depends upon our willingness to do what it takes to defend this nation and uphold the values that we stand for –- timeless ideals that will endure long after those who offer only hate and destruction have been vanquished from the Earth.

May God bless our troops, and may God bless the United States of America.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the whole thing to reference for commentary.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

In regards to quality of the speech it's not bad overall 7/10.

The devil is in the details of course.

 

[blake0812]

What I don't get is why he explained the strategy on LIVE TV

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Nice words; however, the "we are great" chest thumping was completely unnecessary.

 

[IronWing]

Lyndon Johnson told the nation
Have no fear of escalation...

Obama should have insisted on Congressional buy-in prior to action. His failure to do so leaves him on questionable constitutional grounds and also lets Congress throw rocks without consequence.

 

[brandonb]

What I don't get is why he explained the strategy on LIVE TV

He didn't bring anything new to the table. He only confirmed what we've already been doing. Then gave us a pep talk.

 

[schmuckley]

Aiding Syrian rebels who sold the reporter to ISIS,nice.
http://nypost.com/2014/09/10/family-claims-beheaded-steven-sotloff-was-sold-to-isis/

Ofc the White House is denying it now...nice.

 

[Jaskalas]

Iraq is clear, we know who to support and who to kill.

Syria... are we still arming and siding with terrorists? Why aren't we on the side of the Assad government?

 

[echo4747]

My fellow Americans, tonight I want to speak to you about what the United States will do with our friends and allies to degrade and ultimately destroy the terrorist group known as ISIL.

As Commander-in-Chief, my highest priority is the security of the American people. Over the last several years, we have consistently taken the fight to terrorists who threaten our country. We took out Osama bin Laden and much of al Qaeda’s leadership in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We’ve targeted al Qaeda’s affiliate in Yemen, and recently eliminated the top commander of its affiliate in Somalia. We’ve done so while bringing more than 140,000 American troops home from Iraq, and drawing down our forces in Afghanistan, where our combat mission will end later this year. Thanks to our military and counterterrorism professionals, America is safer.

Still, we continue to face a terrorist threat. We can’t erase every trace of evil from the world, and small groups of killers have the capacity to do great harm. That was the case before 9/11, and that remains true today. And that’s why we must remain vigilant as threats emerge. At this moment, the greatest threats come from the Middle East and North Africa, where radical groups exploit grievances for their own gain. And one of those groups is ISIL -- which calls itself the “Islamic State.”

Now let’s make two things clear: ISIL is not “Islamic.” No religion condones the killing of innocents. And the vast majority of ISIL’s victims have been Muslim. And ISIL is certainly not a state. It was formerly al Qaeda’s affiliate in Iraq, and has taken advantage of sectarian strife and Syria’s civil war to gain territory on both sides of the Iraq-Syrian border. It is recognized by no government, nor by the people it subjugates. ISIL is a terrorist organization, pure and simple. And it has no vision other than the slaughter of all who stand in its way.

In a region that has known so much bloodshed, these terrorists are unique in their brutality. They execute captured prisoners. They kill children. They enslave, rape, and force women into marriage. They threatened a religious minority with genocide. And in acts of barbarism, they took the lives of two American journalists -- Jim Foley and Steven Sotloff.

So ISIL poses a threat to the people of Iraq and Syria, and the broader Middle East -- including American citizens, personnel and facilities. If left unchecked, these terrorists could pose a growing threat beyond that region, including to the United States. While we have not yet detected specific plotting against our homeland, ISIL leaders have threatened America and our allies. Our Intelligence Community believes that thousands of foreigners -– including Europeans and some Americans –- have joined them in Syria and Iraq. Trained and battle-hardened, these fighters could try to return to their home countries and carry out deadly attacks.

I know many Americans are concerned about these threats. Tonight, I want you to know that the United States of America is meeting them with strength and resolve. Last month, I ordered our military to take targeted action against ISIL to stop its advances. Since then, we’ve conducted more than 150 successful airstrikes in Iraq. These strikes have protected American personnel and facilities, killed ISIL fighters, destroyed weapons, and given space for Iraqi and Kurdish forces to reclaim key territory. These strikes have also helped save the lives of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

But this is not our fight alone. American power can make a decisive difference, but we cannot do for Iraqis what they must do for themselves, nor can we take the place of Arab partners in securing their region. And that’s why I’ve insisted that additional U.S. action depended upon Iraqis forming an inclusive government, which they have now done in recent days. So tonight, with a new Iraqi government in place, and following consultations with allies abroad and Congress at home, I can announce that America will lead a broad coalition to roll back this terrorist threat.

Our objective is clear: We will degrade, and ultimately destroy, ISIL through a comprehensive and sustained counterterrorism strategy.

First, we will conduct a systematic campaign of airstrikes against these terrorists. Working with the Iraqi government, we will expand our efforts beyond protecting our own people and humanitarian missions, so that we’re hitting ISIL targets as Iraqi forces go on offense. Moreover, I have made it clear that we will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria, as well as Iraq. This is a core principle of my presidency: If you threaten America, you will find no safe haven.

Second, we will increase our support to forces fighting these terrorists on the ground. In June, I deployed several hundred American servicemembers to Iraq to assess how we can best support Iraqi security forces. Now that those teams have completed their work –- and Iraq has formed a government –- we will send an additional 475 servicemembers to Iraq. As I have said before, these American forces will not have a combat mission –- we will not get dragged into another ground war in Iraq. But they are needed to support Iraqi and Kurdish forces with training, intelligence and equipment. We’ll also support Iraq’s efforts to stand up National Guard Units to help Sunni communities secure their own freedom from ISIL’s control.

Across the border, in Syria, we have ramped up our military assistance to the Syrian opposition. Tonight, I call on Congress again to give us additional authorities and resources to train and equip these fighters. In the fight against ISIL, we cannot rely on an Assad regime that terrorizes its own people -- a regime that will never regain the legitimacy it has lost. Instead, we must strengthen the opposition as the best counterweight to extremists like ISIL, while pursuing the political solution necessary to solve Syria’s crisis once and for all.

Third, we will continue to draw on our substantial counterterrorism capabilities to prevent ISIL attacks. Working with our partners, we will redouble our efforts to cut off its funding; improve our intelligence; strengthen our defenses; counter its warped ideology; and stem the flow of foreign fighters into and out of the Middle East. And in two weeks, I will chair a meeting of the U.N. Security Council to further mobilize the international community around this effort.

Fourth, we will continue to provide humanitarian assistance to innocent civilians who have been displaced by this terrorist organization. This includes Sunni and Shia Muslims who are at grave risk, as well as tens of thousands of Christians and other religious minorities. We cannot allow these communities to be driven from their ancient homelands.

So this is our strategy. And in each of these four parts of our strategy, America will be joined by a broad coalition of partners. Already, allies are flying planes with us over Iraq; sending arms and assistance to Iraqi security forces and the Syrian opposition; sharing intelligence; and providing billions of dollars in humanitarian aid. Secretary Kerry was in Iraq today meeting with the new government and supporting their efforts to promote unity. And in the coming days he will travel across the Middle East and Europe to enlist more partners in this fight, especially Arab nations who can help mobilize Sunni communities in Iraq and Syria, to drive these terrorists from their lands. This is American leadership at its best: We stand with people who fight for their own freedom, and we rally other nations on behalf of our common security and common humanity.

My administration has also secured bipartisan support for this approach here at home. I have the authority to address the threat from ISIL, but I believe we are strongest as a nation when the President and Congress work together. So I welcome congressional support for this effort in order to show the world that Americans are united in confronting this danger.

Now, it will take time to eradicate a cancer like ISIL. And any time we take military action, there are risks involved –- especially to the servicemen and women who carry out these missions. But I want the American people to understand how this effort will be different from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will not involve American combat troops fighting on foreign soil. This counterterrorism campaign will be waged through a steady, relentless effort to take out ISIL wherever they exist, using our air power and our support for partner forces on the ground. This strategy of taking out terrorists who threaten us, while supporting partners on the front lines, is one that we have successfully pursued in Yemen and Somalia for years. And it is consistent with the approach I outlined earlier this year: to use force against anyone who threatens America’s core interests, but to mobilize partners wherever possible to address broader challenges to international order.

My fellow Americans, we live in a time of great change. Tomorrow marks 13 years since our country was attacked. Next week marks six years since our economy suffered its worst setback since the Great Depression. Yet despite these shocks, through the pain we have felt and the grueling work required to bounce back, America is better positioned today to seize the future than any other nation on Earth.

Our technology companies and universities are unmatched. Our manufacturing and auto industries are thriving. Energy independence is closer than it’s been in decades. For all the work that remains, our businesses are in the longest uninterrupted stretch of job creation in our history. Despite all the divisions and discord within our democracy, I see the grit and determination and common goodness of the American people every single day –- and that makes me more confident than ever about our country’s future.

Abroad, American leadership is the one constant in an uncertain world. It is America that has the capacity and the will to mobilize the world against terrorists. It is America that has rallied the world against Russian aggression, and in support of the Ukrainian peoples’ right to determine their own destiny. It is America –- our scientists, our doctors, our know-how –- that can help contain and cure the outbreak of Ebola. It is America that helped remove and destroy Syria’s declared chemical weapons so that they can’t pose a threat to the Syrian people or the world again. And it is America that is helping Muslim communities around the world not just in the fight against terrorism, but in the fight for opportunity, and tolerance, and a more hopeful future.

America, our endless blessings bestow an enduring burden. But as Americans, we welcome our responsibility to lead. From Europe to Asia, from the far reaches of Africa to war-torn capitals of the Middle East, we stand for freedom, for justice, for dignity. These are values that have guided our nation since its founding.

Tonight, I ask for your support in carrying that leadership forward. I do so as a Commander-in-Chief who could not be prouder of our men and women in uniform –- pilots who bravely fly in the face of danger above the Middle East, and servicemembers who support our partners on the ground.

When we helped prevent the massacre of civilians trapped on a distant mountain, here’s what one of them said: “We owe our American friends our lives. Our children will always remember that there was someone who felt our struggle and made a long journey to protect innocent people.”

That is the difference we make in the world. And our own safety, our own security, depends upon our willingness to do what it takes to defend this nation and uphold the values that we stand for –- timeless ideals that will endure long after those who offer only hate and destruction have been vanquished from the Earth.

May God bless our troops, and may God bless the United States of America.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the whole thing to reference for commentary.

condensed version:

Osama is dead and GM is alive and jobs are awesome and we are leaders in terrorist fighting and cockblocking Russia and etc.

 

[IronWing]

Why aren't we on the side of the Assad government?

The Sauds wouldn't like that.

 

[trenchfoot]

The first criticism I heard about "his" plan was that he didn't do it soon enough, and coming from of all people, a very pleasant and well dressed lady Dem legislator. I'm guessing she has a very tough election battle to wage in a conservative leaning state.

Plan sounds reasonable and appropriate for the present situation. Looks like he covered his ass pretty well with his allies and did a half ass job of wooing future friends in the region.

I don't envy him in the sense that there are layers and layers of personal agendas that he had to take into consideration, including his own, but what bothers me the most is those politicians who earlier goaded him on to take immediate action for the express reason of getting Obama into some really deep kim chee early on into a pretty hairy developing situation. So many lives at stake, yet personal and party agenda took precedence over it all.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

My fellow Americans, tonight I want to speak to you about what the United States will do with our friends and allies to degrade and ultimately destroy the terrorist group known as ISIL.

As Commander-in-Chief, my highest priority is the security of the American people. Over the last several years, we have consistently taken the fight to terrorists who threaten our country. We took out Osama bin Laden and much of al Qaeda’s leadership in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We’ve targeted al Qaeda’s affiliate in Yemen, and recently eliminated the top commander of its affiliate in Somalia. We’ve done so while bringing more than 140,000 American troops home from Iraq, and drawing down our forces in Afghanistan, where our combat mission will end later this year. Thanks to our military and counterterrorism professionals, America is safer.

This is the "I have credibility" part of the speech. Well, OK, that's normal polispeak.

Still, we continue to face a terrorist threat. We can’t erase every trace of evil from the world, and small groups of killers have the capacity to do great harm. That was the case before 9/11, and that remains true today. And that’s why we must remain vigilant as threats emerge. At this moment, the greatest threats come from the Middle East and North Africa, where radical groups exploit grievances for their own gain. And one of those groups is ISIL -- which calls itself the “Islamic State.”

This is the standard fearmongering motivational part. A speech starting off with 9/11 about 9/11 being fed to the public so we're considering this on 9/11, and terror of course. My opinion- Straight Neocon playbook opening.

Now let’s make two things clear: ISIL is not “Islamic.” No religion condones the killing of innocents. And the vast majority of ISIL’s victims have been Muslim. And ISIL is certainly not a state. It was formerly al Qaeda’s affiliate in Iraq, and has taken advantage of sectarian strife and Syria’s civil war to gain territory on both sides of the Iraq-Syrian border. It is recognized by no government, nor by the people it subjugates. ISIL is a terrorist organization, pure and simple. And it has no vision other than the slaughter of all who stand in its way.

OK Mr. Obama, I know ISIL isn't Islam, but it is an Islamic group so stop being disingenuous. Yes there are plenty of idiots who will conflate the two, but right now trying sell the idea that there is no connection is going to not play out well in the end.

ISIL's particular brand of Islam is all that's allowed and that's one motivating reason for their actions. The other part is that they aren't a physical nation but they wish to be one and that is worrisome. This caliphate talked about isn't a metaphor, far from it. Let's not play apologist, let's just stick to the facts because people do need know there are differences but magical disassociation isn't the way.

Let me tell you Mr. President what ISIL is not, and that's a "terrorist organization, pure and simple." It is also not Al-qaeda. That it is not a nation you or anyone else will recognize is completely irrelevant to them. Their goal is to become established, maintain control and become a ruling regional power by ultimately removing establish governments and supplanting them. Your recognition is not required if they accomplish their goal. No, they are more than a simple terrorist organization. They are a revolution in the region led by merciless opportunists for their own goal of establishing a Caliphate here on Earth. You underestimate their ambitions. Whether they are capable of realizing them is another thing, but you had best understand you enemy and not make another mistake like your predecessor.

In a region that has known so much bloodshed, these terrorists are unique in their brutality. They execute captured prisoners. They kill children. They enslave, rape, and force women into marriage. They threatened a religious minority with genocide. And in acts of barbarism, they took the lives of two American journalists -- Jim Foley and Steven Sotloff.

So ISIL poses a threat to the people of Iraq and Syria, and the broader Middle East -- including American citizens, personnel and facilities

No argument here, however I'd say they are not unique. Africa proves otherwise, but for this region? Agree.


----------------------------------------

I'm not going to let this post time out. More later.

 

[unokitty]

“Relying on force to do what – bring stability to, democratize, pacify, and make friends with the Islamic world – does not seem with experience to offer anything in the way of a remedy,” he says. “Military action is not going to solve the larger problem of the conflict between traditional forms of Islam and a world tending increasingly towards secular modernity.”

Bacevich, who says he is not advocating inaction, insists there is a moral argument to be made for intervention against IS – but that is not what he sees Obama doing.

No doubt that Obama is very good at giving speeches.

No doubt either that he is not very good at executing strategies that facilitate what he advocates.

Until the Politicians, Obama, Biden, Bush, Cheney, et. al. think that the military solution is important enough to send their children to do the fighting, I'll not support it.

For example, when Biden and Cheney had their opportunity to serve, each of them obtained five deferments and each ultimately succeeded in avoiding military service.

Chicken Hawk is the term we used to describe those that advocate other people fighting their wars. That is, Chicken Hawk US politicians that think that combat is a necessary place for other people's children but not for them or their children.

Until the chicken hawks stop sending other people, and other peoples children, to be cannon fodder, I'll keep believing that war is a racket.

Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71

 

[Orignal Earl]

The Sauds wouldn't like that.

I don't know about the Sauds, but Assad has been a long time supporter of the Palestinians.
So the Israelis wouldn't like that for sure

 

[trenchfoot]

This is the "I have credibility" part of the speech. Well, OK, that's normal polispeak.



This is the standard fearmongering motivational part. A speech starting off with 9/11 about 9/11 being fed to the public so we're considering this on 9/11, and terror of course. My opinion- Straight Neocon playbook opening.



OK Mr. Obama, I know ISIL isn't Islam, but it is an Islamic group so stop being disingenuous. Yes there are plenty of idiots who will conflate the two, but right now trying sell the idea that there is no connection is going to not play out well in the end.

ISIL's particular brand of Islam is all that's allowed and that's one motivating reason for their actions. The other part is that they aren't a physical nation but they wish to be one and that is worrisome. This caliphate talked about isn't a metaphor, far from it. Let's not play apologist, let's just stick to the facts because people do need know there are differences but magical disassociation isn't the way.

Let me tell you Mr. President what ISIL is not, and that's a "terrorist organization, pure and simple." It is also not Al-qaeda. That it is not a nation you or anyone else will recognize is completely irrelevant to them. Their goal is to become established, maintain control and become a ruling regional power by ultimately removing establish governments and supplanting them. Your recognition is not required if they accomplish their goal. No, they are more than a simple terrorist organization. They are a revolution in the region led by merciless opportunists for their own goal of establishing a Caliphate here on Earth. You underestimate their ambitions. Whether they are capable of realizing them is another thing, but you had best understand you enemy and not make another mistake like your predecessor.



No argument here, however I'd say they are not unique. Africa proves otherwise, but for this region? Agree.


----------------------------------------

I'm not going to let this post time out. More later.

Worth mentioning though is that the primary difference between the horrific acts of violence going on in Africa and the Middle East is, of all things, religion.

 

[momeNt]

Smells of freedom on this beautiful 9/11 Thursday morning.

Feels pretty damn good to be American now.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Lyndon Johnson told the nation
Have no fear of escalation...

Obama should have insisted on Congressional buy-in prior to action. His failure to do so leaves him on questionable constitutional grounds and also lets Congress throw rocks without consequence.

I abandoned going over the remainder of the speech as I just don't have enough time, but Obama is disturbingly like Bush in many ways. Perhaps it's a certain narcissism inherent those who hold the office, but it's not a good trait.

IMO Obama is missing too many things here. He ought to be reigning in the extraordinary powers the Office has given itself in recent decades but has not, in fact he's expanded on them.

He ought to be approaching Congress with plans, not inviting them to participate in his modern version of the divine right of kings. Ultimately he's dismissive of everyone else. His party faithful will of course line up with "BUSH" or just generally support what they supposedly rejected when the GWB was in office. Some won't, but they'll be too few and just quiet enough to not cause a real stir.

He also has created a coalition of the non-existent. He hasn't even attended the summit yet, where he'll no doubt invite Europe to join or fsckem all, ala Rumsfeld. This is decidedly a one man show, not even one nation. Oh well if they aren't for us they are against us.

Then there's arming the rebels and his steadfast opposition of Assad. This always bites us in the ass. There is absolutely no reason to believe that weapons given to those beyond our control will be used as we instruct. Obama does not have the Jedi mind powers he seems to believe he has. It is entirely possible that these rebels will take these weapons to use against Assad and thereby weakening both themselves and the present government in Syria making ISILs goal of assuming control of Syria much easier. This is incredible foolishness, but that comes of hubris of the same degree.

Some of the actions seem reasonable, increased air strikes for example, but this smells more of a political stunt than well considered plan. Picking 9/11 and crying "terror" does not speak against my sense of things.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Some of the actions seem reasonable, increased air strikes for example, but this smells more of a political stunt than well considered plan. Picking 9/11 and crying "terror" does not speak against my sense of things.

Agree...the timing of this speech bothered me as well.

 

[dank69]

Putin lecturing Obama about acts of aggression.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Putin lecturing Obama about acts of aggression.

Why not? It seems that's something he knows about. The latter doesn't seem interested in anyone elses opinions so maybe he'll listen to Putin.

 

[theeedude]

Across the border, in Syria, we have ramped up our military assistance to the Syrian opposition. Tonight, I call on Congress again to give us additional authorities and resources to train and equip these fighters. In the fight against ISIL, we cannot rely on an Assad regime that terrorizes its own people -- a regime that will never regain the legitimacy it has lost.

Seems like he's avoiding the hard but obvious decision of helping Assad crush ISIS in Syria. Instead we are going to support opposition which may or may not materialize, and which will be fighting Assad with those weapons, weakening both, and leaving ISIS in a stronger position. It's a naive foreign policy based on wishful thinking and decision avoidance. You aren't going to defeat ISIS and Assad by supporting a disorganized opposition, and hoping it will fight both and prevail. In the meantime, Assad is there already, actively fighting ISIS with an organized professional military. We are going to undermine that, and hope that someone "better" emerges. Well, that's not how things work in the Middle East. To win against both Assad and ISIS, you need battle hardened fighters capable of doing whatever it takes, and there are not many nice guys who meet that description in that part of the world, and even if they were, there is no time to organize them into a group that has a chance.

 

[Jaskalas]

Seems like he's avoiding the hard but obvious decision of helping Assad crush ISIS in Syria. Instead we are going to support opposition which may or may not materialize, and which will be fighting Assad with those weapons, weakening both, and leaving ISIS in a stronger position. It's a naive foreign policy based on wishful thinking and decision avoidance. You aren't going to defeat ISIS and Assad by supporting a disorganized opposition, and hoping it will fight both and prevail. In the meantime, Assad is there already, actively fighting ISIS with an organized professional military. We are going to undermine that, and hope that someone "better" emerges. Well, that's not how things work in the Middle East. To win against both Assad and ISIS, you need battle hardened fighters capable of doing whatever it takes, and there are not many nice guys who meet that description in that part of the world, and even if they were, there is no time to organize them into a group that has a chance.

I completely agree with you Senseamp.

In this "war" against ISIS, the United States is making a huge mistake with Syria. It's a terrible feeling watching your country make such a mistake. I think I now know what you guys must have felt in 2003.

 

[Bitek]

Iraq is clear, we know who to support and who to kill.

Syria... are we still arming and siding with terrorists? Why aren't we on the side of the Assad government?

I don't know about the Sauds, but Assad has been a long time supporter of the Palestinians.
So the Israelis wouldn't like that for sure

Its important to remember that Assad is Alawite, which a sect of Shia. Assad is aligned with Russia (its one ME sphere of influence) but also with Iran. There is hezbollah and Iranian Rev guard in the mix as well. Its been reported that Iranian tanks are in Iraq fighting with the Kurds against IS, as the Kurds are mostly infantry forces w/ no vehicles or heavy weaponry. We will now fly air support for these guys.

Currently IS (and other rebels) exists as a Sunni group fighting the Shia governments bookending the Sunni territory. Sauds are Sunni obviously, and have been playing both sides (just like they were doing with Al-queda). There is considerable support of IS in Saudi Arabia and the sunni pop.s in the peninsula.

So by supporting Assad, we are aiding Iran, Hezbollah and Putin and attacking the Sunnis (again.) Obama is leaving room to work with some "other (sunni)" rebels, but really most all the of groups are vicious unsavory people no one wants in governance, so this is mostly fantasy land.

I abandoned going over the remainder of the speech as I just don't have enough time, but Obama is disturbingly like Bush in many ways. Perhaps it's a certain narcissism inherent those who hold the office, but it's not a good trait.

IMO Obama is missing too many things here. He ought to be reigning in the extraordinary powers the Office has given itself in recent decades but has not, in fact he's expanded on them.

He ought to be approaching Congress with plans, not inviting them to participate in his modern version of the divine right of kings. Ultimately he's dismissive of everyone else. His party faithful will of course line up with "BUSH" or just generally support what they supposedly rejected when the GWB was in office. Some won't, but they'll be too few and just quiet enough to not cause a real stir.

He also has created a coalition of the non-existent. He hasn't even attended the summit yet, where he'll no doubt invite Europe to join or fsckem all, ala Rumsfeld. This is decidedly a one man show, not even one nation. Oh well if they aren't for us they are against us.

Then there's arming the rebels and his steadfast opposition of Assad. This always bites us in the ass. There is absolutely no reason to believe that weapons given to those beyond our control will be used as we instruct. Obama does not have the Jedi mind powers he seems to believe he has. It is entirely possible that these rebels will take these weapons to use against Assad and thereby weakening both themselves and the present government in Syria making ISILs goal of assuming control of Syria much easier. This is incredible foolishness, but that comes of hubris of the same degree.

Some of the actions seem reasonable, increased air strikes for example, but this smells more of a political stunt than well considered plan. Picking 9/11 and crying "terror" does not speak against my sense of things.

I like your post, but I don't agree with all of your assessments.

I do agree on the disturbing use of the Neocon language he's adopted to sell this. Why is he doing this? IDK. Maybe because its worked before, sounds tougher the than "lead from behind" statement from Libya, and sounds better than the truth? o_0

I would not 100% blame him for taking powers and not going to Congress. There has been strong bi-partisan support of not doing anything, covering their ass, and wanting no part of any vote that makes them actually make a decision they will be accountable for.

From the people suing Obama for overreach, they've questioned why they should even vote, Obama should act on this own, but they reserve the right to complain about everything. Congress is completely useless.

If anything, Obama wanted to bomb last year and they torpedoed that.
Not saying that was a good option either, but Congress refused to do anything but complain. I genuinely wonder what the value of the institution has going forward. They are handing the Oval Office imperial powers as fast as it can take them. Nothing of consequence seems to get done lately other than by executive action.

Part of the reason ISIS exists today was the power vacuum that has been left in Syria. Assad needed help fighting the rebels, they were in Damascus, and he's had a tacit truce with ISIS to gang up on the "moderate" rebels which has been successful from Assad's standpoint. Our actions will solidify his position in power, which is the reverse of our original goals.

My biggest frustration w. Obama and this situation is the whipsaw, and the feeling he is/we are being pulled in directions not of our choosing.

I think we are over stating the capabilities that IS has, thus the danger to us. Two journalists get murdered and we are going to war in favor of Iran's and Russia's ally? Could we remove one really bad group with limited capabilities (already under attack by powerful forces) only to strengthen even more powerful foes?

What will the blowback from this be? US in the ME again. Why do we expect ourselves to fix all the problems over there, when clearly there is no solution to any of it? Fighting in the ME will continue for decades I guarantee. ISIS will end, only to be replaced with another problem

 

[Drako]

9/10/2013: The U.S. is not the World's Police.
9/10/2014: The U.S. is the World's Police.

:hmm:

 

[Bitek]

Seems like he's avoiding the hard but obvious decision of helping Assad crush ISIS in Syria. Instead we are going to support opposition which may or may not materialize, and which will be fighting Assad with those weapons, weakening both, and leaving ISIS in a stronger position. It's a naive foreign policy based on wishful thinking and decision avoidance. You aren't going to defeat ISIS and Assad by supporting a disorganized opposition, and hoping it will fight both and prevail. In the meantime, Assad is there already, actively fighting ISIS with an organized professional military. We are going to undermine that, and hope that someone "better" emerges. Well, that's not how things work in the Middle East. To win against both Assad and ISIS, you need battle hardened fighters capable of doing whatever it takes, and there are not many nice guys who meet that description in that part of the world, and even if they were, there is no time to organize them into a group that has a chance.

The only advantages I can see of not backing Assad (other than he's killed masses of his own people and we've already stated he needs to be removed...) is Assad's ties to Russia and Iran.

By hanging a sword out there over Assad, it gives some measure of threat against Putin and Iran. If Putin were to push further into Ukraine could we find a convenient excuse to topple Assad and put in our puppet? You take our chess piece off the board and we take yours.

I would think this message would get to Putin.

I don't see any advantage at this point backing Assad.