President Pivots on Taxing Benefits

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

First of all let me say best wishes on your battle with cancer.

I'm not sure what "interfaces with our broken system" means. We health care providers aren't broken, but I can assure you that the government programs we try to work with are. Right now we're taking money from our schools to pay for Medicaid, the one untouchable NY program. It's consuming more and more. What takes minutes to fix with private insurance may not get fixed. We had a medicaid patient a few days ago who had a problem with a transposition of numbers in the medicaid system. I was told the AIDs patient would just have to wait until they looked at it. It might be fixed next week.

This system soaks up money like a sponge, and yet this patient will go two weeks without medication. Do you have any idea what that means?

You've seen Germany. I've seen what happens here and now.

Get Germany to run the system.

I know exactly what it means. Pain and suffering for that poor patient.

If the entire system was setup to take care of all American's instead of just those that had Medicaid or Private insurance (if EVERYBODY had UHC), he wouldn't have to wait because we wouldn't have to worry about the numbers, or the limited funds of the Medicaid system or reimbursements. The medicine would just be filed for, the patients ID documented, and the claim funded.

You act like money grows on a tree.

How the hell are we going to pay for all this 'free' stuff???

Eskimo is saying $2.5 trillion!!!! Where do we come up with the difference between what the government pays now and that $2.5 trillion amount? We are talking about another $1.5 trillion in taxes.

Oh... in case you didn't know it the government already pays about half of all medical spending in this country.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

I agree, we should listen to what the doctors think.

"As doctors, we find that our patients suffer because of increasing deductibles, co-payments, and restrictions on patient care," said Dr. Ronald Ackermann, who worked on the study with Carroll. "More and more, physicians are turning to national health insurance as a solution to this problem."

There is no guarantee that a UHC plan will decrease the cost. I guess liberals just fail to understand people's concern that government run programs are mostly crap.

My take on the issue: Too many greedy people/entities who wouldn't give up or compromise at all.

Leeches who use healthcare services anyway, even if they don't have the means to pay for it.
People want more services and less taxation.
The general public wants to live an unhealthy lifestyle.
Insurance companies want to make money.
Politicians want to stay in power.

You were the one that said we should listen to doctors, not me. It's not my fault if you don't like what they have to say.

I said medical professionals, which consists of more than just doctors.

Are you implying that other medical professionals besides doctors feel differently? If so, what is your evidence of this?

Are you reading this thread at all? There is a medical professional(Hayabusa Rider) in here telling why in his\her experience why the govt has been fucking up and will continue to fuck up.

I think you will find a wide range of opinions in the medical profession. There is no consensus. For instance my wife works at a hospital and the nurses there want UHC. Then I talk with my primary care physician and he goes on about how horrible Medicaid and Medicare are. You find a link to a bunch of doctors wanting UHC and Hayabusa Rider tells us what a disaster the current system is.

The only thing most people will admit is the current system is broken and in need of an overhaul. The question is will be actually fix the system or put bandaids on it and push the costs onto the next generation? Heyheybooboo brought up one of the problems withour current system. We pay through the nose for terminally ill and the elderly. Are we going to address this situation or put a bandaid on it by making everybody pay for it hoping it will disperse the cost per taxpayer better than the current scheme?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

You act like money grows on a tree.

How the hell are we going to pay for all this 'free' stuff???

Eskimo is saying $2.5 trillion!!!! Where do we come up with the difference between what the government pays now and that $2.5 trillion amount? We are talking about another $1.5 trillion in taxes.

Oh... in case you didn't know it the government already pays about half of all medical spending in this country.

And a reduction of 1.5 trillion in the 'tax' that we pay on every single item we buy that corporations build into the price in order for them to pay for their employees' health care. In fact, since single payer health care has been shown to be more efficient in other countries, chances are we would actually be saving money.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

I agree, we should listen to what the doctors think.

"As doctors, we find that our patients suffer because of increasing deductibles, co-payments, and restrictions on patient care," said Dr. Ronald Ackermann, who worked on the study with Carroll. "More and more, physicians are turning to national health insurance as a solution to this problem."

There is no guarantee that a UHC plan will decrease the cost. I guess liberals just fail to understand people's concern that government run programs are mostly crap.

My take on the issue: Too many greedy people/entities who wouldn't give up or compromise at all.

Leeches who use healthcare services anyway, even if they don't have the means to pay for it.
People want more services and less taxation.
The general public wants to live an unhealthy lifestyle.
Insurance companies want to make money.
Politicians want to stay in power.

You were the one that said we should listen to doctors, not me. It's not my fault if you don't like what they have to say.

I said medical professionals, which consists of more than just doctors.

Are you implying that other medical professionals besides doctors feel differently? If so, what is your evidence of this?

Are you reading this thread at all? There is a medical professional(Hayabusa Rider) in here telling why in his\her experience why the govt has been fucking up and will continue to fuck up.

I think you will find a wide range of opinions in the medical profession. There is no consensus. For instance my wife works at a hospital and the nurses there want UHC. Then I talk with my primary care physician and he goes on about how horrible Medicaid and Medicare are. You find a link to a bunch of doctors wanting UHC and Hayabusa Rider tells us what a disaster the current system is.

The only thing most people will admit is the current system is broken and in need of an overhaul. The question is will be actually fix the system or put bandaids on it and push the costs onto the next generation? Heyheybooboo brought up one of the problems withour current system. We pay through the nose for terminally ill and the elderly. Are we going to address this situation or put a bandaid on it by making everybody pay for it hoping it will disperse the cost per taxpayer better than the current scheme?

Hyabusa Rider is a doctor if I'm not mistaken, and I already linked to evidence that his opinion is in the minority of doctors nationwide. Alphatarget said that other professionals may feel differently and skew the opinion of the medical profession as a whole back towards opposition to universal insurance. I am unaware of any evidence this is the case, so I asked for it.

So yes, I'm reading this thread. Why do you ask?

 

[ProfJohn]

Hayabusa Rider is a pharmacist who I believe works at a hospital.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

You act like money grows on a tree.

How the hell are we going to pay for all this 'free' stuff???

Eskimo is saying $2.5 trillion!!!! Where do we come up with the difference between what the government pays now and that $2.5 trillion amount? We are talking about another $1.5 trillion in taxes.

Oh... in case you didn't know it the government already pays about half of all medical spending in this country.

And a reduction of 1.5 trillion in the 'tax' that we pay on every single item we buy that corporations build into the price in order for them to pay for their employees' health care. In fact, since single payer health care has been shown to be more efficient in other countries, chances are we would actually be saving money.

That's a great point.

Between the reduction in costs to employers/employees, the burden of expensive emergency treatments, untreated patients spreading disease, and a host of the other savings listed in UHC threads here it will easily make up for the cost.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
That's a great point.

Between the reduction in costs to employers/employees, the burden of expensive emergency treatments, untreated patients spreading disease, and a host of the other savings listed in UHC threads here it will easily make up for the cost.

He didn't answer the question though.

How does the government come up with another $1.5 trillion to pay for UHC??

Your savings are mythical in that they will not automatically happen and are based on wishful thinking.
i.e. the second UHC goes into effect every company in the country will lower the prices of their goods since they will no longer have to pay healthcare costs.. good luck with that one.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: TruePaige
That's a great point.

Between the reduction in costs to employers/employees, the burden of expensive emergency treatments, untreated patients spreading disease, and a host of the other savings listed in UHC threads here it will easily make up for the cost.

He didn't answer the question though.

How does the government come up with another $1.5 trillion to pay for UHC??

Your savings are mythical in that they will not automatically happen and are based on wishful thinking.
i.e. the second UHC goes into effect every company in the country will lower the prices of their goods since they will no longer have to pay healthcare costs.. good luck with that one.

If you don't think they will pass their savings onto the public then you've given us a really easy solution: pay for it by taxing the companies.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Hyabusa Rider is a doctor if I'm not mistaken, and I already linked to evidence that his opinion is in the minority of doctors nationwide. Alphatarget said that other professionals may feel differently and skew the opinion of the medical profession as a whole back towards opposition to universal insurance. I am unaware of any evidence this is the case, so I asked for it.

So yes, I'm reading this thread. Why do you ask?

Like many have said so already, I'm sure there are many opinions on this within the profession. We all agree that the system in its current state is broken and needs reform. I don't, however, believe that your president's proposal to expand coverage will lead to lower costs, and will just put us further into debt.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: TruePaige
That's a great point.

Between the reduction in costs to employers/employees, the burden of expensive emergency treatments, untreated patients spreading disease, and a host of the other savings listed in UHC threads here it will easily make up for the cost.

He didn't answer the question though.

How does the government come up with another $1.5 trillion to pay for UHC??

Your savings are mythical in that they will not automatically happen and are based on wishful thinking.
i.e. the second UHC goes into effect every company in the country will lower the prices of their goods since they will no longer have to pay healthcare costs.. good luck with that one.

you don't deserve an answer.