President > Pentagon

[Doppel]

At least he thinks so:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/21/barack-obama-and-pentagon-split-on-afghanistan

Barack Obama is set to reject the advice of the Pentagon by announcing on Wednesday night the withdrawal of up to 30,000 troops from Afghanistan by November next year, in time for the US presidential election.

The move comes despite warnings from his military commanders that recent security gains are fragile. They have been urging him to keep troop numbers high until 2013.

I guess we'll need something to distract from the @*#(ing disastrous economy, which is not likely to "recover" all that much by the time the election comes around.

 

[OCGuy]

The troop withdrawal is too small, by about 60k.

Time to end this shit.

 

[Infohawk]

The Pentagon wants to win the war. Afghanistan could very well devolve into chaos after the US leaves but this isn't too different from the rest of their history. I do hope we preserve the means to attack Taliban / terror camps in the country though.

 

[Infohawk]

The troop withdrawal is too small, by about 60k.

Time to end this shit.

Yeah you either keep enough in to preserve the image that we're making a difference or we bounce completely and accept that it turns to shit.

 

[Darwin333]

At least he thinks so:

At least he thinks so??? You do realize that he isn't called the Commander in Chief for shits and giggles right?

 

[Axon]

Oh, I thought it was just like a pet name, like how I call my girl commander in chief, you know?

 

[senseamp]

The Pentagon reports to the President, dummy.

 

[JSt0rm]

durr

 

[Vette73]

The troop withdrawal is too small, by about 60k.

Time to end this shit.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Oh and OP the Pentagon also wanted to invade Cuba. I guess kennedy should also done that?

Theres a reason why the head of the Military is elected.

 

[nageov3t]

The troop withdrawal is too small, by about 60k.

Time to end this shit.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I'm a reformed neocon... I think we should pull out almost-completely and just leave a skeleton crew in place to run drone bombings on any terrorist camps that might pop up.

 

[Slew Foot]

F Afghanistan. Pull the troops home and let that place rot

 

[Doppel]

The Pentagon reports to the President, dummy.

Congrats, you were paying attention in social studies class last week.

So it seems like everyone here is ready to just admit Afghanistan is a lost cause. I'm ok with that, it's been a decade. I am sure that isn't how Obama will slant it, though.

 

[EagleKeeper]

IF you are going to pull the troops out; ensure that there is enough to protect each other.
If not, get them all out.

Anything half assed is going to waste lives.

Afghanistan is already a political war like Vietnam became.

Let the politicians decide if there should be war and if so; let the military prosecute it to the fullest with clear objectives.

All the tip toeing around kills people and weakens morale.

 

[Craig234]

I'm a reformed neocon...

Just a congratulatory recognition for admitting a mistake.

I'm not sure you mean the same thing I do by 'reformed neocon', but it's still an admission.

 

[nageov3t]

Just a congratulatory recognition for admitting a mistake.

I'm not sure you mean the same thing I do by 'reformed neocon', but it's still an admission.

are there different meanings?

I went from disagreeing with Bush on everything but foreign policy to agreeing with Obama on everything but foreign policy.

 

[senseamp]

Congrats, you were paying attention in social studies class last week.

So it seems like everyone here is ready to just admit Afghanistan is a lost cause. I'm ok with that, it's been a decade. I am sure that isn't how Obama will slant it, though.

More like a won cause. Obama killed Osama, if you haven't noticed
That's sort of the reason we went to Afghanistan, to put the smack down on Al Qaeda.

 

[Craig234]

nm

 

[JS80]

Yeah you either keep enough in to preserve the image that we're making a difference or we bounce completely and accept that it turns to shit.

Yup. Sunk costs. Cut losses.

 

[Jaskalas]

The Pentagon wants to win the war. Afghanistan could very well devolve into chaos after the US leaves but this isn't too different from the rest of their history. I do hope we preserve the means to attack Taliban / terror camps in the country though.

I understand their thinking, but my thought is Afghanistan turns back to a rogue enemy nation the second we leave regardless of any duration we spend getting our soldiers killed for nothing.

The Pentagon seems delusional.

 

[Lemon law]

At least Obama made somewhat of a commitment to try to win in Afghanistan by tossing in an extra 30,000 combat troops to augment a way too small Nato force.

I am not all surprised that no one remembers what that initial 30,000 troops found. As the Nato augmented by 30,000 troops made the first comprehensive survey of Afghanistan and found that the bulk of Afghanistan that was relatively calm and seeming violence free had in fact fallen under Taliban control quite a few years ago.

And while its my considered opinion that Petraeus and his counter insurgency strategy was superior to the GWB strategy, its still too little too late to make any difference.

Nato has two huge problems and one is all Nato's fault, the government of Karzai is a bigger disaster than the Taliban. The other problem is that Nato can't run a military occupation in Afghanistan without at least 500,000 troops. And now IMHO, if Obama is committed to a draw down below 100,000 Nato troops we might as well throw in the towel and get out. One day modern technology and modern ideas will come to to Afghanistan and the Tribal areas of Pakistan to end the wacki ideas of the Taliban, Nato had a chance to be that modernizing force but instead won second place in a beauty contest with the Taliban.

But we still can't blame the US military, they won the "war", but as soon as it transitions to a military occupation, it becomes a political problem. And the two principle American lessons we can take home with us in this Afghan defeat is (1) With any military occupation, go big or stay home. (2) Unless we have a bottom up political strategy to make the civilians occupied receive a better government and a more secure life, the home grown insurgency will win every time.

I have been writing about Afghanistan since I joined this forum in 2005, and laying out what it will take to win also.

So when we lose in Afghanistan because of our own stupidity and unwillingness to commit needed resources, don't expect me to be surprised.

And only remaining Obama delusion may be in believing Nato won't get the Afghan ole heave ho well before Obama's expected date of final withdrawal.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

I hope that there is some strategy behind this and it's not just politics. By reducing troop strength he is basically conceding the country, which I don't have a problem with. But there better some clear and achievable objective for the remaining troops.

 

[soundforbjt]

Think you could find any military commander that would admit a war's un-winable? That's their job, winning wars. If they admit it can't be won, that's like saying I can't do my job.

No one in history has ever conquered that area, iirc.

 

[pcgeek11]

It could be won if they would remove the politicians and bleeding hearts from making any type of military plans and leave it to the professionals. That is how Vietnam got fucked up. IMO

 

[Jaskalas]

Think you could find any military commander that would admit a war's un-winable? That's their job, winning wars. If they admit it can't be won, that's like saying I can't do my job.

No one in history has ever conquered that area, iirc.

This is not a war. It's a sit around and get killed in Afghanistan party. Not the sort anyone should be invited to.

Lemon Law is correct, you go in big or you stay home, but we're also a decade past that point.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

It could be won if they would remove the politicians and bleeding hearts from making any type of military plans and leave it to the professionals. That is how Vietnam got fucked up. IMO

How would you even define winning there? It's not like Iraq which had some history of being a 2nd world country. Even if we killed all the Taliban and all there supporters it's not like the country would be governable. In 5 years it would be back to the same thing.