President Obama creates a new gun violence Task Force

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
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Already off to a dismal start. This should be a new mental illness task force.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
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This is not going to work because they aren't addressing the root cause of this which is this will still happen without guns. Do you have any insight to add to this?
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
4
81
Already off to a dismal start. This should be a new mental illness task force.

So you're saying if he went in with a kitchen knife just as many would have died? It's legitimate to look at all pieces of the puzzle, while I don't really care here or there with gun control, guns are one of those pieces and gun violence is a fitting term.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
This is not going to work because they aren't addressing the root cause of this which is this will still happen without guns. Do you have any insight to add to this?

I don't like getting shredded by a Rightist onslaught so close to Christmas. :(
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,794
568
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Already off to a dismal start. This should be a new mental illness task force.

I 100% agree.

If someone makes that proposal on the White House Proposal site would you sign it?

*edit*

In the article they explain they are addressing this issue too.

should have read the article (derp at me) however, they should call it a gun violence and mental health task force since it does seem right now that the majority of people who commit mass killings have been mentally ill in some way.
 
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JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
12,031
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ohh I wonder if we can get a Czar out of this. Mental Czar of Guns?
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
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So you're saying if he went in with a kitchen knife just as many would have died? It's legitimate to look at all pieces of the puzzle, while I don't really care here or there with gun control, guns are one of those pieces and gun violence is a fitting term.

America does need to rejig its gun control laws, but that's still addressing a symptom, not the cause. The alternately criminalization and ignoring of mental illness that happens in far too many Western societies is what billions of dollars need to be spent on. But that's not how this is going to work.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,618
15,792
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Glad they are looking at mental health. Needs to be the primary focus though.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Whatever they propose in January is going to go through revisions in the Senate, and significant revisions in the House if it ever hopes to pass.

I'm hoping by then that most of the anti-gun base will be off the bandwagon ride.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,669
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The worst school massacre in US history did not involve guns -
The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, and four other adults; at least 58 people were injured. The perpetrator first killed his wife, and committed suicide with his last explosion. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–14 years of age[1]) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in United States history.[2]
The bomber was the school board treasurer Andrew Kehoe, age 55, who was angry after being defeated in the spring 1926 election for township clerk. He was thought to have planned his "murderous revenge" after that public defeat; he had a reputation for difficulty on the school board and in personal dealings. For much of the next year, a neighbor noticed Kehoe had stopped working on his farm and thought he might be planning suicide. During that period, Kehoe carried out steps in his plan to destroy the school and his farm by purchasing and hiding explosives.
Kehoe's wife was ill with tuberculosis and he had stopped making mortgage payments; he was under pressure for foreclosure. Some time between May 16 and the morning of May 18, 1927, Kehoe murdered his wife by hitting her on the head. On the morning of May 18 about 8:45, he exploded incendiary devices in his house and farm buildings, setting them on fire and destroying them.
Almost simultaneously, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many schoolchildren. Kehoe had used a timed detonator to ignite dynamite and hundreds of pounds of incendiary pyrotol, which he had secretly planted inside the school over the course of many months. As rescuers gathered at the school, Kehoe drove up, stopped, and used a rifle to detonate dynamite inside his shrapnel-filled truck, killing himself, the school superintendent, and several others nearby, as well as injuring more bystanders. During rescue efforts at the school, searchers discovered an additional 500 pounds (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol connected to a timing device and planted throughout the basement of the south wing. Kehoe had apparently intended to blow up and destroy the entire school.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
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Because you didn't post any commentary and you forgot the root cause of this.

Its not guns since he would have done it without them.

Done what exactly?

He had easy access to many guns and ammo, and an intent to kill.

If you remove his easy access to the guns would he still have gone in and tired to kill those kids? Maybe, but it would be much less devastating if he only used a knife.....
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
In regards to mental health, this task force will conclude to this:

"People need easier/better access to affordable or free mental health"

Republicans will cry "SOCIALISM! OBAMACARE!! AAAARRRGGHH!!!" and "GUNNNNSSS!! MORE GUNSSS!!!
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
So you're saying if he went in with a kitchen knife just as many would have died? It's legitimate to look at all pieces of the puzzle, while I don't really care here or there with gun control, guns are one of those pieces and gun violence is a fitting term.

Grenades.
Bombs.

They are not guns and could do much more damage in much less time.

Just saying.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
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Done what exactly?

He had easy access to many guns and ammo, and an intent to kill.

If you remove his easy access to the guns would he still have gone in and tired to kill those kids? Maybe, but it would be much less devastating if he only used a knife.....

Maybe no guns he would have resorted to home-made explosives. Taking out whole rooms per bomb.

Maybe he would have still killed 15+ with a knife because A) he will be faster than kids and B) unless they jump out a window he can corner them in a room.

And it doesn't take all that long to kill with a knife either, it just means getting in range to where retaliation can happen at a much easier/quicker pace.

No one can say.

Removing guns COULD potentially solve this equation.
Removing/fixing his mental problems from an intent to kill WOULD have solved this equation.

Difference in words here. The guy didn't just snap.
 

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
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relevant:
australia_suicides.jpg


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/
 

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
81
Maybe no guns he would have resorted to home-made explosives. Taking out whole rooms per bomb.

Maybe he would have still killed 15+ with a knife because A) he will be faster than kids and B) unless they jump out a window he can corner them in a room.

And it doesn't take all that long to kill with a knife either, it just means getting in range to where retaliation can happen at a much easier/quicker pace.

No one can say.

Removing guns COULD potentially solve this equation.
Removing/fixing his mental problems from an intent to kill WOULD have solved this equation.

Difference in words here. The guy didn't just snap.

Man with knife injures (not kills) 22 children in school
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2012/12/14/china-school-stabbings/1770395/

I'd rather face a guy with a knife than a guy with a gun. It's simply less efficient to kill with a knife than a gun, and gives the kids a better chance to survive their wounds or run away.

You can't corner that many people in a room and kill them all at once with a knife. You actually have to physically catch each one and be next to them to kill them. If there are 20 kids and a teacher in a room, it would give most of the kids ample time to run away....

With an assault rifle he wouldn't need to corner anyone and just stand in the doorway.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
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I find it funny that so many people that proclaim to be Americans are so willing to just toss the Constitution into the trash.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,316
681
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How about if your kid has mental issues you don't give him a gun or teach him to shoot? How dumb are people really ? Let's go to the range it will be quality time.

And who the hell needs an ar15 to protect themselves ? Someone comes in your house just use your handgun..what the hell can you hunt with that semi automatic anyway ? Bigfoot I guess