President Obama’s new overtime proposal could make a lot of people happier

[Moonbeam]

So in other words: Insult, insult, insult, you have no soul, you should love, insult, insult, insult.

Constructive criticism. I offered him a way to earn a raise. You, on the other hand, offered him nothing to find his way back to being a human being.

 

[Lash444]

Past tense. They aren't doing shit today for improving working conditions. That "market" is pretty well saturated so to speak. Nor are they necessarily needed to maintain them.

If you work for a company that abuses you, how is the government going to fix that. All they do is Band-aid the abuse and you continue to work for a company that, if it had it way, would abuse you. How retarded are you to continue working in that environment? The government has fixed a symptom, the root cause is still there. All that has to happen is a little change and you are back in the same boat.

Maybe so, but that doesn't mean that there past changes didn't improve peoples lives, nor doles it mean that this rule doesn't as well. It is easy to say that people should go find another job that treats them better. Easier said than done. There are plenty of people on this planet (look at china) as an example... Who would love to have all of these "symptoms" in place to stop the abuses that companies are willing to put on their workers. Are you stating that there are enough perfect jobs out there that people are stupid for working for such companies?

If they are out there, I have never seen one. Every company...every single one takes advantage of their workers in some capacity. Should we not have safety requirements, minimum wages, environmental policies?

Under your terminology these are all symptoms of an abusive company. No offense, but Ithink history has shown that without regulating companies from screwing over everyone, they will always take advantage of everything in their capacity. You need to set a basic minimum set of policies. Otherwise they all take advantage of every opportunity they can, regardless of the repercussions.

 

[xBiffx]

Maybe so, but that doesn't mean that there past changes didn't improve peoples lives, nor doles it mean that this rule doesn't as well. It is easy to say that people should go find another job that treats them better. Easier said than done. There are plenty of people on this planet (look at china) as an example... Who would love to have all of these "symptoms" in place to stop the abuses that companies are willing to put on their workers. Are you stating that there are enough perfect jobs out there that people are stupid for working for such companies?

If they are out there, I have never seen one. Every company...every single one takes advantage of their workers in some capacity. Should we not have safety requirements, minimum wages, environmental policies?

Under your terminology these are all symptoms of an abusive company. No offense, but Ithink history has shown that without regulating companies from screwing over everyone, they will always take advantage of everything in their capacity. You need to set a basic minimum set of policies. Otherwise they all take advantage of every opportunity they can, regardless of the repercussions.

There is another part of this that everyone seems to overlook. Relying on government to fix your problems while you remain passive puts you in a tough predicament when government decides to make changes. If you actively take a roll in what happens to you, then you get to decide what happens instead of just reacting to other's decisions all the time.

This country was built on people making tough decisions. But now, all of a sudden, everyone wants the easy way out regardless of future consequences. I don't see that ending well.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ho-lee crap is right. That whole post is crap, especially the bolded.

Hardly. If it were up to the "kindness" of the corporations you'd be shopping at the company store. Hey if you don't like it don't eat.

 

[Lash444]

Hardly. If it were up to the "kindness" of the corporations you'd be shopping at the company store. Hey if you don't like it don't eat.

Or using mercury with your bare hands like guys in South america prospecting gold.

 

[xBiffx]

Hardly. If it were up to the "kindness" of the corporations you'd be shopping at the company store. Hey if you don't like it don't eat.

What's done is done. We have laws now. Government and especially unions aren't doing shit today for changing working conditions. They've served their purpose.

Relying on either, at this point, is just pure laziness and indifference in your own well being/future.

 

[trenchfoot]

Therein lies the problem that countless multitudes of corporate middle management types face: On the one hand you want to climb the corporate ladder of success by showing management that you can take on any assignment given you with a stiff upper lip, or for that matter a canine inspired shit eating grin if required. But because management knows this they will keep you right where you are until you quit being Mr. Nice Guy or until they've seen that you've passed through the gauntlet enough times to anoint you with either a promotion that requires you to work even longer and harder with no raise in pay (but a better view of the parking lot) or, miracles of miracles, get thrown a few bones to chew on while you're looking for another job that actually pays you what you think you're worth.

 

[cabri]

That's much easier said than done depending on the job. If neither labor unions or the government stepped in to protect the worker, we'd all be working 80 hours per week on a 40 hour pay scale. A lot, and I mean a lot, of companies pay 40 hour salary but expect the workers to put in 50-60 hour work weeks.

And as we've discovered, when companies start paying their employees appropriate wages across the board, the economy improves as a whole.

Ho-lee crap what a coincidence.

Who determines appropriate? Companies will and should pay according to the value of the employee to the company.

The employee can think they will determine what is appropriate - they did when they accepted the position and any movement up.
After that the employer makes the determination is the employee is still worth what they are being paid.

that is either the value the employee brings and/or the market rate as a reference point.

 

[ivwshane]

Corporate apologists, the new scum!

 

[werepossum]

Ho-lee crap is right. That whole post is crap, especially the bolded.

It was exaggeration to be sure, but its applicability depends on one's job skills and the available market. If one has rare and desirable skills within a good market (or is willing and able to travel to encompass a good market) then yes, it was crap. However, tons of people are extremely replaceable in this economy. If one's job is non-specialized and non-technical and one has been in the same job for some years, then there are likely hundreds of people currently willing and able to do one's job at lower cost. To some extent that's a good thing as it encourages hard work, continual improvement, and efficiency. But when it's systemic for years it becomes a race to the bottom absent some outside power such as unionization (protection through collective power) or government.

I'm a big fan of the free market and market forces, but nothing's perfect.

 

[xBiffx]

It was exaggeration to be sure, but its applicability depends on one's job skills and the available market. If one has rare and desirable skills within a good market (or is willing and able to travel to encompass a good market) then yes, it was crap. However, tons of people are extremely replaceable in this economy. If one's job is non-specialized and non-technical and one has been in the same job for some years, then there are likely hundreds of people currently willing and able to do one's job at lower cost. To some extent that's a good thing as it encourages hard work, continual improvement, and efficiency. But when it's systemic for years it becomes a race to the bottom absent some outside power such as unionization (protection through collective power) or government.

I'm a big fan of the free market and market forces, but nothing's perfect.

Again, relying on collective power is not only self defeating it also leaves the individual powerless. Relying on your own decision making abilities and willingness to control your own life leaves the power to the individual. If you rely on collective power instead of your own, then that is all you will ever do because by relying on collective power you now have to rely on collective power.

Not saying that finding a new job is an easy decision. But at least you are in the driver's seat.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Or you'll just get "Chinese" overtime and the more you work the less they pay you per hour.

Say you make $15 an hour and in a 40 hour week you get $600.

You work 50 hours.

You'd think you'd get an extra 10 hours at 22.5 an hour.

But nope, they'll just knock down your pay rate to $12 an hour and you still only get the $600.

Sucks, but some people have to live with it.

 

[Matt1970]

Constructive criticism. I offered him a way to earn a raise. You, on the other hand, offered him nothing to find his way back to being a human being.

The day insults become constructive criticism is the day I become the Pope, President of the world, win the lottery and set foot of Mars all in the same day.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

It's a good start, but the number of people working over 40 hours that make less than 50k are slim to none.

The ones that do so, are doing so by choice. So the employers are going to say make sure you get out of here by X because we aren't paying overtime.

For jobs like mine, where overtime is a necessity.... and my salary is over that 50k threshold... well... call me when they raise that threshold lets put it that way.

 

[werepossum]

Again, relying on collective power is not only self defeating it also leaves the individual powerless. Relying on your own decision making abilities and willingness to control your own life leaves the power to the individual. If you rely on collective power instead of your own, then that is all you will ever do because by relying on collective power you now have to rely on collective power.

Not saying that finding a new job is an easy decision. But at least you are in the driver's seat.

Agreed, but sometimes that's all the power you have.

The business owners have a saying when negotiating with the trade unions: Remember, we're negotiating the wages for the very worst employee we have. The better employees we already pay more, but there's only so much money available, so if the very worst employee we have must be paid more, then the very best employee we have cannot be paid as much as we might otherwise pay him.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I mean I'll be honest, my first shit job out of college was 46k.... and ill be honest, I took it because it was the last thing on my list. It was TOTALLY the last thing on my list to take so I HAD to take it.

My point simply being, the majority of salary positions start with college degree's in the professional / white collar world. Most are going to be above 50k, and the one's that aren't you aren't going to be expected to work more than the standard 40 hours.

So while this is a "step" in the right direction, it's not much of a step when I don't think it will make much of a difference. You should see what the kids are doing out of college working at the Big 4.

 

[Zaap]

I agree with there being clear guidelines between a salaried position and excessive hours that should be overtime. Just because a company puts someone on salary and gives them a stupid title shouldn't be an excuse to then require them to work like a slave at 24/7 beck and call. If you want to do that to people, then pay them properly for it with overtime.

And it's not always about just quitting a shitty job (I agree with that much.) Many times, good jobs are turned into shitty ones by clueless management. Everyone just quitting is not the solution. There should be clear boundaries set, and when blatant abuses occur, the boundaries adjusted.

 

[1prophet]

Past tense. They aren't doing shit today for improving working conditions. That "market" is pretty well saturated so to speak. Nor are they necessarily needed to maintain them.

If you work for a company that abuses you, how is the government going to fix that. All they do is Band-aid the abuse and you continue to work for a company that, if it had it way, would abuse you. How retarded are you to continue working in that environment? The government has fixed a symptom, the root cause is still there. All that has to happen is a little change and you are back in the same boat.

They aren't doing shit today because the traitor democrats wanted to eat at the corporate pig trough like the republicans, so they kept the unions on a short lease through the union bosses while signing off on all those free trade agreements while telling their constituents not to worry,

just like when they signed off on Reagan's illegal amnesty even though the unions were opposed to it because they knew the illegal was a tool of the republican/big business to be used against the legal working class.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-hardaway/illegal-immigration-amnesty-_b_1729649.html

(most ironic today how democrats the supposed party of the working class is courting the illegals and calls anyone critical of it a racist or a xenophobe, inadvertently doing the dirty work of the republican/big business/corporate types, yet they claim the conservatives have a brain disorder:whiste:, but I digress)


Fast forward to today and what's left of the unions is a tooth less crippled old dog that barks loud once in a while but has little to no bite compared to 30 years ago, yet this beat down abused old dog keeps going back to it's democrat puppet master for more.