President is going to be on TV any min to address N. Korea.

[RichUK]

What is this chapter 7 resolution they are talking about within the UN?

 

[killface]

From Stratfor:

Red Alert: North Korea: Underground Nuclear Test Reported
Reports spread Oct. 9 that North Korea tested a nuclear device in the eastern part of North Hamgyong province at 10:35 a.m. local time. China has indicated it did detect a small underground test, although the South Korean military has not raised its alert level. Australian Prime Minister John Howard said his government has confirmed there has been seismic activity from North Korea, although he has not received reports on its magnitude.

The U.S. Geological Survey detected a 4.2 tremor in North Korea, which is smaller than expected and not big enough to make North Korea an unequivocal nuclear power.

If a test did occur, the most immediate U.S. response will likely be a strong condemnation and a call for a U.N. mandate for sanctions. If there is no U.S. military response, Pyongyang will see that as an acceptance of North Korea as a nuclear power.

Many questions remain, however. Even if this were a nuclear test, it is not clear that it was a weapon rather than a device. A nuclear device produces an in-place blast from a mechanism of indeterminate size and structure. A weapon can be fitted on a missile or on an aircraft, and is therefore highly compact and ruggedized.

China's response will be hesitant. China does not seem ready to cut off food or fuel to North Korea, particularly before winter sets in. Beijing has deployed additional troops to the border, but that is to seal the frontier. Beijing will be angry, but its primary concern is to keep the North Korean people from spilling across the border into northeast China.

South Korea will, of course, suspend cooperation in Kaesong and Kumkang and will probably put its forces on alert. With the drawdown of U.S. troops in South Korea, the South Korean army is now the border patrol. U.S. military units remaining will have to go on heightened alert and rush Patriot surface-to-air missile batteries to the peninsula. South Korea could deploy high-level officials to North Korea

Japan will work for U.N. for sanctions and Chapter 7 invocation. Japan also will heighten its military posture and increase diplomacy with China and South Korea in an attempt to show a united front against North Korea

North Korea will go on high alert nationwide. The military will assume a high-readiness posture, and the North Koreans will proclaim their entry into the nuclear club, using sanctions to tighten control and rally domestic backing. Pyongyang might quickly invite the International Atomic Energy Agency in to make its nuclear status "legitimate." It will petition international bodies to accept the new reality.

In any event, North Korea will view the test as a victory. It will mark the acceptance of the government as a nuclear state. Further negotiations will have to take place under this new reality. North Korea cannot be isolated forever. North Korea has bet that anything less than a complete military invasion is a capitulation. Pyongyang will press for acceptance, similar to Pakistan. China and South Korea will be key; both desperately want to avoid any military action. They will end up negotiating with North Korea, finding a way to make the North comply with international regulations.

Sorry, I just like stratfor.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: DonVito
Prior to OIF, however, Saddam Hussein had given weapons inspectors unfettered access, and they turned up nothing (not TOO surprisingly, since we have found in the interim 3 1/2 years that there was nothing to be found). You can credit (or blame) the signatories of PNAC for OIF, since their plan, rather than any legitimate national-security interest, was the genesis for OIF. Unfortunately they didn't see fit to include a plan for what would happen after we were greeted with flowers and chocolates by the grateful Iraqis.

Are you lying to us or have you really got yourself to believe this?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Are you lying to us or have you really got yourself to believe this?

Uh, no. He allowed the weapons inspectors in, and gave them unlimited access in the winter of 2002-2003. Ironically the inspectors were frustrated by the poor quality of US intel, which they were using to look for WMDs.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Are you lying to us or have you really got yourself to believe this?

Uh, no. He allowed the weapons inspectors in, and gave them unlimited access in the first months of 2003.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[walrus]

North Korea is a small country far away that wants nothing more from the US than to be allowed to peacefully coexist with us. But unfortunately they fall perfectly into the pattern of a country that US politicians can slur and make wild threatening claims about.

Iran and North Korea long ago had shut down all their nuclear reactors and had western observers and cameras in their labs. Then Bush invades Iraq (for no good reason) and announces the same day that Iran and North Korea are next. And the day after that both Iran and North Korea restart their nuclear programs. And bush acts surprised.

Nuclear weapons are defensive weapons of last resort. Using one would always bring massive retaliation. All this means is that Bush won't be invading North Korea now.

 

[Queasy]

Link - I wonder if this had anything to do with the timing of NoKor's test today. A South Korean as head of the UN? That would probably piss Kim Jong-Il off a little.

9 October 2006 ? The Security Council today formally chose Foreign Minister Ban Ki-moon of the Republic of Korea as its nominee to be the next Secretary-General of the United Nations for a five-year term when incumbent Kofi Annan steps down on 31 December.

The nomination now goes to the 192-member General Assembly for formal approval.

In a statement issued by his spokesman welcoming the Council?s decision, Mr. Annan said he had the highest respect for Mr. Ban, ?having had the pleasure of working with him both in his present capacity and when he was Chef de Cabinet to the President of the General Assembly.? Mr. Ban served in the latter position in 2001 when Han Seung-soo of the Republic of Korea presided over the Assembly.

?The Secretary-General hopes that the General Assembly will be able to reach a decision on this important matter in the near future, so that the incoming Secretary-General designate will have time to prepare fully for his assumption of office on 1 January,? the statement added. ?For his part, the Secretary-General will do everything possible to ensure a smooth transition.?

Under procedures for appointing the world body?s new chief, the President of the Security Council, Japanese Ambassador Kenzo Oshima, notifies General Assembly President Sheikha Haya Rashed Al Khalifa of Bahrain by letter of the Council?s recommendation.

A draft resolution of the Assembly is then issued for the Assembly to take action. The customary practice is that this draft resolution is coordinated by the Chair of the regional group from which the next Secretary-General will come, in this case Japan, and co-sponsored by the Member States holding the Chairs of the other regional groups.

After appropriate consultations with Member States, the Assembly President fixes a date for the Assembly to take up the draft. Theoretically, if all Member States are agreed on how to proceed, the Assembly could make the appointment on the same day that the Security Council makes its recommendation.

The last four Secretaries-General were appointed by the Assembly through a resolution adopted by consensus. A vote will take place only if a Member State requests it and a simple majority of those voting would be required for the Assembly to adopt the resolution. But the Assembly could decide that the decision requires a two-thirds majority. If a vote is taken, it will be by secret ballot.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: DonVito
It's ironic to me that President Bush is so willing to defer to the UN Security Council in relation to Iran and NK, when we were so disdainful of them in Iraq (since they wouldn't facilitate the war that Rumsfeld and company had wanted for so long).

:::sigh:::

We had a cease fire agreement and legal cause to bring the government down with Iraq. This was the effect of the 1991 gulf war. It should have been done the first time Saddam kicked inspectors out of the country. Instead we waited 12 years too long.

We have none of that with NK or Iran.

You forget, Clinton ignored him for 8 years.

 

[homercles337]

Why are so many of you so judgemental? Do you buy the neocon philosophy that "democracy" should be forced on all soverign states? What if 90% of North Koreans are happy while only 20% of Americans are happy? How does forcing our "happiness" on them make their life better? Its all perspective, and if yours is distorted why force another to adopt that perspective.

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Why are so many of you so judgemental? Do you buy the neocon philosophy that "democracy" should be forced on all soverign states? What if 90% of North Koreans are happy while only 20% of Americans are happy? How does forcing our "happiness" on them make their life better? Its all perspective, and if yours is distorted why force another to adopt that perspective.

Because TV makes us so.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: DonVito
It's ironic to me that President Bush is so willing to defer to the UN Security Council in relation to Iran and NK, when we were so disdainful of them in Iraq (since they wouldn't facilitate the war that Rumsfeld and company had wanted for so long).

why is it ironic? iraq has basically shown bush that he can't operate very well without broad international support, and where better to find support than the security council? this is as ironic as someone learning not to touch a pot on a stove.

 

[SpanishFry]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Why are so many of you so judgemental? Do you buy the neocon philosophy that "democracy" should be forced on all soverign states? What if 90% of North Koreans are happy while only 20% of Americans are happy? How does forcing our "happiness" on them make their life better? Its all perspective, and if yours is distorted why force another to adopt that perspective.

i don't care one bit about their democracy or happiness. I just don't want a nuke to be used.

 

[SpanishFry]

Originally posted by: walrus
North Korea is a small country far away that wants nothing more from the US than to be allowed to peacefully coexist with us. But unfortunately they fall perfectly into the pattern of a country that US politicians can slur and make wild threatening claims about.

Iran and North Korea long ago had shut down all their nuclear reactors and had western observers and cameras in their labs. Then Bush invades Iraq (for no good reason) and announces the same day that Iran and North Korea are next. And the day after that both Iran and North Korea restart their nuclear programs. And bush acts surprised.

Nuclear weapons are defensive weapons of last resort. Using one would always bring massive retaliation. All this means is that Bush won't be invading North Korea now.

lol, pass some of that kool-aid over here.

 

[snoopdoug1]

Originally posted by: kmr1212

Originally posted by: homercles337
Why are so many of you so judgemental? Do you buy the neocon philosophy that "democracy" should be forced on all soverign states? What if 90% of North Koreans are happy while only 20% of Americans are happy? How does forcing our "happiness" on them make their life better? Its all perspective, and if yours is distorted why force another to adopt that perspective.

i don't care one bit about their democracy or happiness. I just don't want a nuke to be used.

rgr that

 

[EKKC]

goodbye kim jong il.

 

[InlineFive]

Why must we have P&N carnage overflowing into OT?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Why are so many of you so judgemental? Do you buy the neocon philosophy that "democracy" should be forced on all soverign states? What if 90% of North Koreans are happy while only 20% of Americans are happy? How does forcing our "happiness" on them make their life better? Its all perspective, and if yours is distorted why force another to adopt that perspective.

North Korean version of happy: have food to eat on a given day.
American version of happy: going shopping.

happiness is relative, and I conclude you are half retarded.

 

[snoopdoug1]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: homercles337
Why are so many of you so judgemental? Do you buy the neocon philosophy that "democracy" should be forced on all soverign states? What if 90% of North Koreans are happy while only 20% of Americans are happy? How does forcing our "happiness" on them make their life better? Its all perspective, and if yours is distorted why force another to adopt that perspective.

North Korean version of happy: have food to eat on a given day.
American version of happy: going shopping.

happiness is relative, and I conclude you are half retarded.

lol

 

[drinkmorejava]

hmmm, yeah, I hope kim jong stocked up on his lube.

on another note, wow, Bush's grammar is really falling off; I suppose he has been up all night though.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava
hmmm, yeah, I hope kim jong stocked up on his lube.

on another note, wow, Bush's grammar is really falling off; I suppose he has been up all night though.

Falling off? He was born that way dude...

 

[Queasy]

Defense Tech - Priceless picture inside.

3.58-3.7 gives you a couple hundred tons (not kilotons), which is pretty close in this business unless you're really math positive. The same equation, given the US estimate of 4.2, yields (pun intended) around a kiloton.

A plutonium device should produce a yield in the range of the 20 kilotons, like the one we dropped on Nagasaki. No one has ever dudded their first test of a simple fission device. North Korean nuclear scientists are now officially the worst ever.

According to a US Official, the blast only produced the equivalent of several hundred tons of TNT.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: InlineFive
Why must we have P&N carnage overflowing into OT?

we shouldn't.

this thread should be moved.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: InlineFive
Why must we have P&N carnage overflowing into OT?

we shouldn't.

this thread should be moved.

I don't know, this is a fairly important issue and P&N is a very dark hole. The occassional major issue in OT doesn't hurt. Besides, no one is forcing anyone to read it. If you didn't want to read it, you shouldn't have clicked on the thread.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: InlineFive
Why must we have P&N carnage overflowing into OT?

we shouldn't.

this thread should be moved.

I don't know, this is a fairly important issue and P&N is a very dark hole. The occassional major issue in OT doesn't hurt. Besides, no one is forcing anyone to read it. If you didn't want to read it, you shouldn't have clicked on the thread.

I see some dark hole responses in this thread also.

And if you don't want to read my response....ummm..... look away.

 

[Queasy]

Confederate Yankee Blog compares seismic data of Indian Nuclear test and N. Korea nuclear test. The N. Korean 'test' doesn't match the profile of a nuclear blast.

Of course, who knows what a "Dud" nuclear test looks like...they may have well tried and failed.